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Mueller's team seized 'voluminous and complex' evidence from Roger Stone

CaughtInThe said:
dude, we'll all know when he reports. pretending that there is no evidence (just because some dude like yourself isn't privy to it) is just guessing.

now, there have been indictments and arrests. that's what we know so far. we know Mueller is good at this stuff (from his past history).

if i were you, i'd prepare for the worst and then if it's not so bad you're good to go.
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That makes no sense though. Mueller has multiple indictments--not one of which is for any criminal behavior with regard to Russia in 2016. Who are the conspirators and why havent they been charged? Give me a name or two of people you believe will be the key players in this conspiracy and how you think the whole thing went down. And I know you dont know. What do you think?.
 
Fletch said:
That makes no sense though. Mueller has multiple indictments--not one of which is for any criminal behavior with regard to Russia in 2016. Who are the conspirators and why havent they been charged? Give me a name or two of people you believe will be the key players in this conspiracy and how you think the whole thing went down. And I know you dont know. What do you think?.
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what you just asked me (as a bystander to the investigation) is to show you what the detectives in the police department have on the perps before the detectives in the police department show us their (entire) case.

you seeing the error in your thinking yet?
 
haymarket said:
What is flabbergasting is that most of the Trumpkins who post here and adopt this sort of willful denial are not stupid people. Obviously there are a few exceptions. But for the most part, they know how investigations work. They know you start out with the little fish getting them on the easiest possible charge to get a guilty plea or conviction on. They know it takes time to work up the ladder. And they know the big fish come at the very end. And they know that it might not be until the very end that we see the real picture of what went on and all the crimes committed.

They know all that. But they pretend to play ostrich and pretend that they never heard of such things before.

Its sickening and its disgusting to see the Trupkins repeatedly do this even after they have been informed and no longer have ignorance as anything approaching an excuse.

This is why I cannot take them seriously.
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I've known some Trump supporters for decades. With few exceptions, they are intelligent, thoughtful people who were reasonable before the age of Trump. However they decided to become truth denying, lie repeating anti-intellectuals is beyond my comprehension and will be studied by historians, sociologists, and political scientists for a very long time. They have opted to mimic the irrational and dishonest habits of Trump (hence the cult), which doesn't make any sense to me when I consider the previously good cores of these people. I have lost a lot of respect for a lot of people, but I am fully aware that the feeling is mutual in some cases.
 
Conservative said:
So Glass/Steagall was approved by a Republican President? And yes, Individual choices cause a recession, no one forced anyone to take out a loan on a home they couldn't afford, showing again that personal responsibility doesn't exist in the liberal world.
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I realize that you are incapable of deviating from your narrative, which makes you valueless to this forum, but I literally said, "I agree that individuals have to be responsible for their actions." Your response was, "showing again that personal responsibility doesn't exist in the liberal world." This is a prime example of why you're not taken seriously.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Perhaps. I'm not saying there was or wasn't collusion. It is impossible for me to know. Just like it's impossible for anyone in this forum to say that there definitely was or definitely was not collusion, yet it happens every day. I just can't take those people seriously.

I will say, though, that the copious contacts between Trump's associates and individuals and entities connected to Russia look bad, especially considering that every single person from Trump on down has lied about them every day for two years. Furthermore, I keep having to repeat myself that Mueller's mandate was broader than just the collusion issue, as everyone knows.
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Mueller's mandate was indeed broader. But we also all know that Mueller was not appointed to find out whether Manafort paid his taxes or Flynn had registered as a foreign agent.

Why did all these guys lie? Maybe there was genuine forgetfulness, maybe there was genuine thinking the issue being accused was not that big a deal, maybe a hope it would be overlooked.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Think about what it will mean if Trump or anyone close to him has become or will become implicated in coordinating with Russia or Russians. It will be explosive. It will be an actual national emergency, at least to people who can address truth. It will also end the investigation whether or not it's finished. I hope for the country's sake that neither Trump nor his campaign coordinated with Russia, but I can also understand why Mueller would not blow his load prematurely.
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All of the burglars in Watergate were exposed, tried and sent to prison early on in the investigation. If there are underlings that facilitated and participated in some sort of conspiracy, there is no reason that they would not have been charged by now. Lets say that Muellers theory is that Manafort, Bannon, Papa and Page conspired with Trump to coordinate with Russia to steal the election. Fine. He needs to charge one of them, win the case in court and work his way up to Trump. Before I buy into any conspiracy theory, I need to see a domino fall. So far that hasnt happened.
 
CaughtInThe said:
what you just asked me (as a bystander to the investigation) is to show you what the detectives in the police department have on the perps before the detectives in the police department show us their (entire) case.

you seeing the error in your thinking yet?
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There is no reason you cant speculate. After all, you think there was collusion, so lets hear your theory.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
You're the one who brought up Trump. Why don't you try to address the OP? I'm not dealing with your witch hunt psychosis.
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So all these threads about Stone, Manafort, Cohen and other individuals would be of interest if they weren't associated with Trump?

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CaughtInThe said:
what you just asked me (as a bystander to the investigation) is to show you what the detectives in the police department have on the perps before the detectives in the police department show us their (entire) case.

you seeing the error in your thinking yet?
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Ok-- so when Mueller says that a senior Trump campaign official asked Stone if he could find out from Wikileaks what they had, what can one reasonably conclude?
It seems to me that one can conclude that Mueller is saying that the Trump campaign did not have a conduit to either Wikileaks or to Russia.
 
Conservative said:
So all these threads about Stone, Manafort, Cohen and other individuals would be of interest if they weren't associated with Trump?

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Nobody would care.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I realize that you are incapable of deviating from your narrative, which makes you valueless to this forum, but I literally said, "I agree that individuals have to be responsible for their actions." Your response was, "showing again that personal responsibility doesn't exist in the liberal world." This is a prime example of why you're not taken seriously.
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It is a prime example of you ignoring the evidence and ignoring the reality that not one indictment has anything to do with a charge the Mueller was a assigned with investigating

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Conservative said:
It is a prime example of you ignoring the evidence and ignoring the reality that not one indictment has anything to do with a charge the Mueller was a assigned with investigating

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Of course they are.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html

The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confinned by then-FBI

Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i)

any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(c)

(ii)

any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii)

any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).
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Cardinal said:
1. Trump was found to have been in business talks over the Moscow Tower project up to the election even while denying he had any business relationship with Russia.
2. His son helped to arrange a meeting between the GRU and the Trump campaign to get information on Clinton
3. His campaign manager shared polling data with the GRU.
4. His adviser was a conduit between the GRU and the Trump campaign.
5. His foreign policy adviser was arranging to get dirt on Hillary Clinton

Trump and his campaign were balls deep in collusion and conspiracy, and denying this fact requires having just crossed over from a parallel universe that bears little resemblance to our own.
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1. Yep. He lied. And...?
2. And nothing happened. It's also not clear that Trump Jr understood he was meeting with GRU.
3. A campaign manager who was fired during the campaign.
4. Which advisor was this?
5. Which advisor was this?
 
Athanasius68 said:
Mueller's mandate was indeed broader. But we also all know that Mueller was not appointed to find out whether Manafort paid his taxes or Flynn had registered as a foreign agent.

Why did all these guys lie? Maybe there was genuine forgetfulness, maybe there was genuine thinking the issue being accused was not that big a deal, maybe a hope it would be overlooked.
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That is a very good question. I have seen several DP posters claim that all these liars lied for no reason. They were not attempting to conceal anything. They just lied for no reason. That doesn't make any sense to me. I think all of your suggestions are plausible. I can also imagine some others, like a conspiracy to hide a larger scheme, but I find it impossible that they all lied for no reason.
 
Fletch said:
All of the burglars in Watergate were exposed, tried and sent to prison early on in the investigation. If there are underlings that facilitated and participated in some sort of conspiracy, there is no reason that they would not have been charged by now. Lets say that Muellers theory is that Manafort, Bannon, Papa and Page conspired with Trump to coordinate with Russia to steal the election. Fine. He needs to charge one of them, win the case in court and work his way up to Trump. Before I buy into any conspiracy theory, I need to see a domino fall. So far that hasnt happened.
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That's more reasonable than saying the lack of a directly related charge so far means there are none at all.
 
Athanasius68 said:
As if Mueller was appointed to investigate Manaforts taxes or Flynn's registration status... Look---- the reality is that Mueller was tasked to investigate collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. His indictments/convictions have been on ancillary areas which could have easily been prosecuted by regularJustice Department prosecutors.
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Manafort ran the Trump campaign for a time. He is up to his eyeballs in Pro Russian Ukrainian money. Of course look into that guys finances. It would be stupid not to.

As for Flynn... the guy was secretly working for a foreign government while serving as the National Security Advisor. There was a time in this country where we would consider that to be a bad thing. I seriously think that by the time that this is all over... it look like Flynn got off light.

Mueller has also handed off plenty of material to the SDNY. That is where Cohen is getting his prison time from.

Mueller clearly has the authority, he is handing off ancillary areas off to the SDNY and he is successfully indicting people who committed crime.... So... what's the complaint again?
 
Conservative said:
So all these threads about Stone, Manafort, Cohen and other individuals would be of interest if they weren't associated with Trump?

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And you still can't address the OP. Why am I not surprised.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Ok-- so when Mueller says that a senior Trump campaign official asked Stone if he could find out from Wikileaks what they had, what can one reasonably conclude?
It seems to me that one can conclude that Mueller is saying that the Trump campaign did not have a conduit to either Wikileaks or to Russia.
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The conduit was Stone.
 
Conservative said:
It is a prime example of you ignoring the evidence and ignoring the reality that not one indictment has anything to do with a charge the Mueller was a assigned with investigating

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You are all over the place.
 
Jezcoe said:
Manafort ran the Trump campaign for a time. He is up to his eyeballs in Pro Russian Ukrainian money. Of course look into that guys finances. It would be stupid not to.

As for Flynn... the guy was secretly working for a foreign government while serving as the National Security Advisor. There was a time in this country where we would consider that to be a bad thing. I seriously think that by the time that this is all over... it look like Flynn got off light.

Mueller has also handed off plenty of material to the SDNY. That is where Cohen is getting his prison time from.

Mueller clearly has the authority, he is handing off ancillary areas off to the SDNY and he is successfully indicting people who committed crime.... So... what's the complaint again?
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As if this is what Mueller was tasked to find...
 
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