Minimum Wage?

[Narph]

I do not support minimum wage.

Three Reasons

(1)The concept is flawed no matter what you raise minimum wage to be it $5.00
or $100.00 it will never be enough to live well and support a family. Why you might ask. When you raise minimum wage the cost of everything goes up. The sad thing is when minimum wage is raised the people making a few dollars more than minimum wage are the last people that see a change in there wage. Though the cost of every thing raises around them. In a factory I worked for a wile back they started you out at $8 an hour minimum wage was $6 Now minimum wage is 7.80 and they still start you out at $8 an hour for the first year. So you could be a clerk at a store or a guy working hard in a factory making 0.20 more.

(2)You can live off minimum wage. That is one person working a 40 hr can,
Rent a apartment, and have food to eat. Also have a car if he is thrifty or works a little overtime or maybe a side job here and there.

7.80x40 = $312 Weekly
312x4 = $1248 Monthly
1248-248=1000 taxes "ruff estimate"
1000-500=500 Rent
500 left for food

(3) If you decide to make nothing out of your self by not doing one or a few of the fallowing you deserve to be poor. I could list many more but that I think gets my point across.

(a)Get a formal education.
(b)Learn a trade.
(c)Have good work ethics and work your way up.

 

[Devils.High]

not too easy to learn somethign when you dont have time.

Well if you think people are getting smarter over the years then dont you think that big buisnesss are too? It's not like the working class gets smarter and they dont.

Think of it like this, when you are buisness you have a choice. (lets say that there is no minimum wage) You can either pay people 7.50 or 7.00. Which one do you pick? within the next five years you decide to also lower the wage by about .50 and so on, up until the point where your living off of ramen and water. Then what do you propose the government do? just watch as the country is getting polverized by buisness and just stand there? I dont think so.

 

[Skip]

Narph... $7.80 isn't the minimum wage. $5.15 is what the minimum wage used to be, and what many people who agree with you think the minimum wage should be at.

5.15 at 40 hrs a week comes to $206/week, or about $825 a month. How can someone live off of $800 a month?

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

5.15 at 40 hrs a week comes to $206/week, or about $825 a month. How can someone live off of $800 a month?

That was more than I was making off of my Social Security pension. It was tight some months... but I did just fine.

 

[DeeJayH]

not too easy to learn somethign when you dont have time.

Well if you think people are getting smarter over the years then dont you think that big buisnesss are too? It's not like the working class gets smarter and they dont.

Think of it like this, when you are buisness you have a choice. (lets say that there is no minimum wage) You can either pay people 7.50 or 7.00. Which one do you pick? within the next five years you decide to also lower the wage by about .50 and so on, up until the point where your living off of ramen and water. Then what do you propose the government do? just watch as the country is getting polverized by buisness and just stand there? I dont think so.

everybody knows about strikes, organized sick outs
there is no defense against that so long as the employment pool is on the same page and willing to suffer short term for long term benefits
I will admit that is the flaw in the strategy
most, well lets say alot, of people are not willing to think long term and go for the short term gains

 

[Narph]

not too easy to learn somethign when you dont have time.

I am not 100% sure what you mean by that but I think your saying that people don't have time to get a education or learn a trade. We all have the same number of hours in a day to work with.

Question: What is stopping you or anyone from learning a trade or getting a education?

Well if you think people are getting smarter over the years then dont you think that big buisnesss are too? It's not like the working class gets smarter and they dont.

Learning and bettering one self is a individuals choice it is no ones responsibility but there own.

Think of it like this, when you are buisness you have a choice. (lets say that there is no minimum wage) You can either pay people 7.50 or 7.00. Which one do you pick? within the next five years you decide to also lower the wage by about .50 and so on, up until the point where your living off of ramen and water. Then what do you propose the government do? just watch as the country is getting polverized by buisness and just stand there? I dont think so.

Question:So why doesn't every company pay minumum wage to all there workers now?

In response to which would I pick 7.50 or 7.00.
When I had to hire a guy I could have found some kid and paid him minimum wage or there guys for 10-15 dollars a hour but I hired a guy for $20.00. I did this because he was very good at his trade all his references where outstanding. His labor and knowledge was worth for more than a guy I have to train or has bad references. So lets say i told the guy I'm paying $20 hr that I going to lower his wage to $19.50. He might not of left over .50 cents but he would have had no problem getting another job for $20.00. If I was going to pay him $15 he would have left and I would have to hire a new guy. So you see a company can't just pay people nothing that the point of a free market which this isn't really a free market but it as one of the closest in the world.

Then what do you propose the government do?

I don't want the government to do anything. I am not a communist. This should be a free country. If a company is going to pay it employees dirt they should strike, get another job or form a union. If all the employees stop working for a company that company has a real problem.

 

[DeeJayH]

That was more than I was making off of my Social Security pension. It was tight some months... but I did just fine.

my son turns 19 in July
he has never worked for minimum wage, and no, he never worked for me, or a friend of mine or the family
currently he works at Pizza Hut delivering
he puts in as many hours as they will give him, with his max so far being 100 hours in his 2 week pay period
he makes $6+/hour plus tips. Tips are ateast $50/shift, sometimes $100
He lives in his own apartment, and just kicked out his roommate because the roommate was irresponsible and undependable, and has decided to not take on another roommate, even though it would cut down his expenses
Oh, and did I mention he pays his own way in college?
I even told him if his grades are good, I will start helping out.
He said he feels better about himself doing it on his own.

so now why is it somebody needs a minimum wage, and why are people trying to support families earning only minimum wage?
because they are loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosers
or they are mentally or physically handicapped
no other reason is reasonable, save a rare exception

 

[Narph]

Narph... $7.80 isn't the minimum wage. $5.15 is what the minimum wage used to be, and what many people who agree with you think the minimum wage should be at.

5.15 at 40 hrs a week comes to $206/week, or about $825 a month. How can someone live off of $800 a month?

Fact: Many States have higher minimum wages then the federal standard.
http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

For example

Oregon=7.80
Washington=7.93
California=7.50

How would you live off $825 a month
$rent 400-500
325-425 for food

Also cost of living is deferent all across the country. And minimum wage is a factor in the cost of living.

 

[BWG]

The invisible hand approach to the marketplace only works when people in the marketplace are honest.

To add to that, ask the question...
Why are so many illegals employed in this country? :notlook: <--govt.

 

[Cephus]

Narph... $7.80 isn't the minimum wage. $5.15 is what the minimum wage used to be, and what many people who agree with you think the minimum wage should be at.

5.15 at 40 hrs a week comes to $206/week, or about $825 a month. How can someone live off of $800 a month?

You have to remember that minimum wage is not intended to be a living wage. It's for people just starting out, with no education and no job experience, hopefully still living at home with their parents and not having a lot of expenses on their own. Anyone trying to raise a family on minimum wage is an irresponsible moron. By the time you have a family and are living on your own, you should have an education, skills and experience and should be making significantly more than minimum wage. If not, it's YOUR fault.

 

[Narph]

You have to remember that minimum wage is not intended to be a living wage. It's for people just starting out, with no education and no job experience, hopefully still living at home with their parents and not having a lot of expenses on their own. Anyone trying to raise a family on minimum wage is an irresponsible moron. By the time you have a family and are living on your own, you should have an education, skills and experience and should be making significantly more than minimum wage. If not, it's YOUR fault.

:agree I support this statement 100%

 

[Devils.High]

But what if the children are born with thier parents making minimum wage? how is that fair? its not fair for someone to be born not with the same rights as other people. This will make some kids able to have a life when they dont have to work for a low wage and others with no option but to go work for a low wage. And if minimum wage is taken out the jobs that dont require much skill wont pay as much so kids wont be able to afford things, this will lead into adults that messed up and have no skill work there and if they are foolish they will have children and the kids will have to suffer.

 

[Devils.High]

my son turns 19 in July
he has never worked for minimum wage, and no, he never worked for me, or a friend of mine or the family
currently he works at Pizza Hut delivering
he puts in as many hours as they will give him, with his max so far being 100 hours in his 2 week pay period
he makes $6+/hour plus tips. Tips are ateast $50/shift, sometimes $100
He lives in his own apartment, and just kicked out his roommate because the roommate was irresponsible and undependable, and has decided to not take on another roommate, even though it would cut down his expenses
Oh, and did I mention he pays his own way in college?
I even told him if his grades are good, I will start helping out.
He said he feels better about himself doing it on his own.

so now why is it somebody needs a minimum wage, and why are people trying to support families earning only minimum wage?
because they are loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosers
or they are mentally or physically handicapped
no other reason is reasonable, save a rare exception

Not everyone is responsible as your kid. Some people will mess up. Thats why there are ghettos, because they messed up. Thats exactly what we have to deal with we have to worry about everyone not just the responsible people..


And minimum wage is different in every state just some are higher due to the state but they have to follow a US minimum wage... From what i understand to the guy that corrected me on minimum wage in NJ.

 

[Narph]

But what if the children are born with thier parents making minimum wage? how is that fair? its not fair for someone to be born not with the same rights as other people. This will make some kids able to have a life when they dont have to work for a low wage and others with no option but to go work for a low wage. And if minimum wage is taken out the jobs that dont require much skill wont pay as much so kids wont be able to afford things, this will lead into adults that messed up and have no skill work there and if they are foolish they will have children and the kids will have to suffer.

Here is a big lesson you need to learn
LIFE IS NOT FAIR!

Question: What rights are you referring to?

You are not born into a job a poor kid can get a good job.

 

[Narph]

Not everyone is responsible as your kid. Some people will mess up. Thats why there are ghettos, because they messed up. Thats exactly what we have to deal with we have to worry about everyone not just the responsible people..


And minimum wage is different in every state just some are higher due to the state but they have to follow a US minimum wage... From what i understand to the guy that corrected me on minimum wage in NJ.

We have to worry about? Why do we have to worry about someone being irresponsible with there own lives? It is there responsibility not ours. So that makes the consequences there also.

The states have to fallow what ever is greater the Federal minimum wage or the state minimum wage.

 

[Devils.High]

What if you were poor and couldnt afford to send your child to college and he had to go to work at 16 instead of going to college and getting a better chance of getting a good paying job.

I really would like to see there be no minimum wage so that I can just tell you guys I told you so in the future.

 

[1069]

What if you were poor and couldnt afford to send your child to college and he had to go to work at 16 instead of going to college and getting a better chance of getting a good paying job.

I really would like to see there be no minimum wage so that I can just tell you guys I told you so in the future.

That's one of the really unrewarding things about being a liberal; we're mostly compassionate people. Therefore, if conservatives get their way and everything goes to hell in a handcart, we'd get no real satisfaction out of having been right.

 

[Narph]

What if you were poor and couldnt afford to send your child to college and he had to go to work at 16 instead of going to college and getting a better chance of getting a good paying job.

College is not the only way to get a good job or learn a trade. There are many fields where you can get a apprentice and get paid wile you learn the trade for example plumber and electrician. Also there is Job Core where they will house and feed you give you a free education and give you a small amount of spending money. There are also a lot of minimum wage jobs that you can work your way up to manager.

Also you have not answered these questions.:waiting:

Question: What is stopping you or anyone from learning a trade or getting a education?

Question:So why doesn't every company pay minumum wage to all there workers now?

Question: What rights are you referring to?

Why do we have to worry about someone being irresponsible with there own lives?

 

[Cephus]

But what if the children are born with thier parents making minimum wage?

Here's an idea: if you can't afford kids, DON'T HAVE THEM!

Wow, responsibility, what a concept.

 

[Duke]

Yes I support minimum wage.I look back at what happened before we had minimum wage.During the days of the Andrew Carnegie steel mills, very rich men exploited the **** out of the poor.So the idea someone is going to pay you what you are worth with out any intervention is hilarious.Cheap products do not mean **** if you are too damn poor to afford those products in the first place.

Hell hath frozen over, for I hath just agreed with Jamesrage. :applaud

Companies are firing their employees and hiring new ones that they can pay less. It started with the kind of companies that you would expect to be paying minimum wage, like fast food joints, but just yesterday, Circuit City fired 3,400 employees in order to hire ones that they intend to pay less. It won't be long until Circuit City will be paying their employees minimum wage, and other companies will follow suit. And if it weren't for minimum wage, they would just keep reducing it and reducing it, and before long, things would get ugly.


Duke

 

[DeeJayH]

Hell hath frozen over, for I hath just agreed with Jamesrage. :applaud

Companies are firing their employees and hiring new ones that they can pay less. It started with the kind of companies that you would expect to be paying minimum wage, like fast food joints, but just yesterday, Circuit City fired 3,400 employees in order to hire ones that they intend to pay less. It won't be long until Circuit City will be paying their employees minimum wage, and other companies will follow suit. And if it weren't for minimum wage, they would just keep reducing it and reducing it, and before long, things would get ugly.


Duke

that is a possibility
but the community (work pool) should come down on the sc@mbags (scabs) otherwise the job is worthless

 

[Duke]

that is a possibility
but the community (work pool) should come down on the sc@mbags (scabs) otherwise the job is worthless

Generally speaking, America and Americans prefer laws, regulations, and rules to community and vigilante justice...


Duke

 

[DeeJayH]

What if you were poor and couldnt afford to send your child to college and he had to go to work at 16 instead of going to college and getting a better chance of getting a good paying job.

I really would like to see there be no minimum wage so that I can just tell you guys I told you so in the future.

My father may be rich now, but we werent growing up, especially since he left when i was still in grade school
Not only did i grow up wearing hand-me-downs, but they were hand-me-downs that my older brother go from my cousins
there is not a single job application that asks whether you grew up in poverty

and college hasnt guaranteed a good job for many years
anybody can get a job in a trade, and learn it. It has nothing to with what level of education you have
there are plenty of civil service jobs where it is all but impossible to get fired from and that you get continuous cost of living expenses

Here are your options
.
work hard at school, get a good education and start up the ladder a little higher than teh rest
.
goof off at school and get a job and bust your hump to get ahead after many years
goof off at school, goof off at work, and earn next to nothing NO MATTER HOW MANY KIDS YOU SPAWN. But that doesnt matter because other than Richie Rich, I have never met a rich kid
and while there may be many spoiled kids, they are guaranteed nothing++

why is it so hard to grasp that most people earning min wage beyond their teenage years, are getting paid more than what they are worth
why is it so hard to grasp taht money has no bearing on what a child becomes
I can show you more failures from Ivy League Schools than you can show me from Community Colleges
Those who have it handed to them rarely achieve what those who have to fight for everything they do achieve

 

[DeeJayH]

Generally speaking, America and Americans prefer laws, regulations, and rules to community and vigilante justice...


Duke

actually Americans prefer to build things up as a community rather than take advantage of each other
actually Americans prefer less govt involvement in their day to day lives

 

[Duke]

actually Americans prefer to build things up as a community rather than take advantage of each other
actually Americans prefer less govt involvement in their day to day lives

Americans, sure, but what about companies? If Mr. CEO realizes that he can cut worker wages and raise his wages, what's going to stop him? One community alone won't cut it, especially in today's global economy, where single companies straddle the globe. One thing can prevent this, and it's called the government.


Duke