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Minimum Wage?

Do you support minimum wage?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 45.0%

  • No

    Votes: 11 55.0%
  • Total voters
    20
bigsmitty

bigsmitty

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
168
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Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Do you support the notion of a minimum wage? Why/Why not?

I do not support the idea of an employer being forced to pay a standard salary to an employee. People make a lot of money because they have skills that are valuable. Pay on the high end of the scale is determined through private agreement in which the government has no say. Why should it be any different at the low end of the pay scale?

EDIT: Can someone with power please add a poll? Thanks in advance.
 
a persons wages should be determined by the market place, just like prices of goods are determined by the market place
 
bigsmitty said:
Do you support the notion of a minimum wage? Why/Why not?
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Yes I support minimum wage.I look back at what happened before we had minimum wage.During the days of the Andrew Carnegie steel mills, very rich men exploited the **** out of the poor.So the idea someone is going to pay you what you are worth with out any intervention is hilarious.Cheap products do not mean **** if you are too damn poor to afford those products in the first place.
 
jamesrage said:
Yes I support minimum wage.I look back at what happened before we had minimum wage.During the days of the Andrew Carnegie steel mills, very rich men exploited the **** out of the poor.So the idea someone is going to pay you what you are worth with out any intervention is hilarious.
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Did you actually write that? Did I read that correctly??

:shock:
 
1069 said:
Did you actually write that? Did I read that correctly??

:shock:
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Yes you read it correctly.I believe capitalism will only work and survive if there is some restrictions.Companies are in the business of making money for themselves,so if left to their own devices they will exploit anyone and everything to make that money.
 
jamesrage said:
Yes you read it correctly.I believe capitalism will only work and survive if there is some restrictions.Companies are in the business of making money for themselves,so if left to their own devices they will exploit anyone and everything to make that money.
Click to expand...

In a large industrialized, capitalism doesn't work on it's own. Gilded age any one?
 
I'm in a state with a higher than average minimum wage, and I could hire people for that, but I pay more anyway. The minimum isn't enough. I only have between 6 and 15 employees depending on the season, but none get minimum.

What I support is a HIGHER minimum wage.



As for my reasons? I don't believe greed is good, nordo I believe people are just an expendable commodity.
 
Yea gilded age......

People should at least be able to at least have some chance in providing a future for their child.
 
bigsmitty said:
Do you support the notion of a minimum wage? Why/Why not?

I do not support the idea of an employer being forced to pay a standard salary to an employee. People make a lot of money because they have skills that are valuable. Pay on the high end of the scale is determined through private agreement in which the government has no say. Why should it be any different at the low end of the pay scale?

EDIT: Can someone with power please add a poll? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Let’s just raise the minimum wage to $20 per. Hr right now and not talk about it for another 15 years.
 
Devils.High said:
Yea gilded age......

People should at least be able to at least have some chance in providing a future for their child.
Click to expand...
or maybe they should not have a family until after they have an education and a job skill
why are you (general term) trying to raise a family on minimum wage
who the hell did you get to marry you, when all you earn is minimum wage?
get a frigging skill
you earn what you are worth
 
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DeeJayH said:
or maybe they should not have a family until after they have an education and a job skill
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Well, since no form of contraception has a 100% efficacy rate, and since you are an adamant opponent of abortion, are you suggesting that no one should ever have sex "until after they have an education and a job skill"?

Because that seems a tad bit draconian, not to mention fairly unrealistic.
Plenty of people never have the opportunity to obtain higher education.

Adults have the right to establish intimate relationships with other adults, regardless of their socio-economic class (and will anyway, regardless).

Are you a proponent of eugenics? I ask because, in my opinion, you're skirting that line.
 
Besides the fact that government is historically inept at providing economic solutions and the minimum wage violates just about every tenant of solid economic theory, it's bad policy, all it does is create a cycle of buying power depreciation that must continually be repaired by adding to the wage that created the cycle in the first place. If market factors could be allowed to determine labor contracts you would see an increase in worker advancement as people started to see that the system works when they have the bargaining power of labor demand vs. supply.
 
Laizzes-faire capitalism seeks to maximize the wealth of the owners by reducing inputs to the lowest possible cost, inlcuding labor. If maximizing the wealth of the owners is your sole criteria for determining policy, we should do away with minimum wage and all other programs that help those on the bottom.

If you think that there are other factors that should be considered in terms of policy (ie the well being and welfare of American citizens) then there are arguments in favor of minimum wage. It is not IMO the optimal means of helping those at the bottom, but absent those I support it; as I think we as a society should consider other criteria than maximizing the wealth of the wealthy for policy considerations.
 
1069 said:
Well, since no form of contraception has a 100% efficacy rate, and since you are an adamant opponent of abortion, are you suggesting that no one should ever have sex "until after they have an education and a job skill"?

Because that seems a tad bit draconian, not to mention fairly unrealistic.
Plenty of people never have the opportunity to obtain higher education.

Adults have the right to establish intimate relationships with other adults, regardless of their socio-economic class (and will anyway, regardless).

Are you a proponent of eugenics? I ask because, in my opinion, you're skirting that line.
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no i just say suck it up
you live with the consequences of your decisions
when my son was born I quit college to wash dishes at the Outback
I have held 2 full time jobs at a time, and done side work along the way
I do what it takes
no free rides
no leeching
most people have shitty jobs because of shitty attitudes, laziness, unwillingness to learn or better themselves

eugenics - - if you mean that the weak and useless will be weeded out of the gene pool, i do support it
but i would rather encourage those to improve themselves and their situation
there are always jobs to fill, and business's to start
last 4 jobs i had were companies i started
independent contractor from the school of hard knocks
It really is amazing what you can do when you put your mind to it

my son just started college
he delivers pizzas to make a living and pay for college
last week he logged 100 hours in two weeks while going to school full time at the same time
I told him if his grades are what they are should be, for his level of intelligence, I said I would help him with college costs. He said he feels better about himself, paying for himself. Paying his tuition, paying for his one bedroom apt., paying for his food, insurance, taxes, clothes, etc....
some people just never get that tho, and it aint my fault or problem
I take care of myself, my family, and my friends. I donate to charity regularly. But i no sympathy for the bum on the corner with the sign saying he is an injured vet or just had a stroke.
because it is BS
 
1069 said:
Well, since no form of contraception has a 100% efficacy rate, and since you are an adamant opponent of abortion, are you suggesting that no one should ever have sex "until after they have an education and a job skill"?

Because that seems a tad bit draconian, not to mention fairly unrealistic.
Plenty of people never have the opportunity to obtain higher education.

Adults have the right to establish intimate relationships with other adults, regardless of their socio-economic class (and will anyway, regardless).

Are you a proponent of eugenics? I ask because, in my opinion, you're skirting that line.
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Has DeeJay read 1984?
 
DeeJayH said:
nope, I have not
I had the pleasure of being in High school in 1984
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I read 1984 in 1984 (I was nine).
My father had rather advanced literary expectations for me.
I was lukewarm about 1984; I liked Animal Farm better.
 
DeeJayH said:
or maybe they should not have a family until after they have an education and a job skill
why are you (general term) trying to raise a family on minimum wage
who the hell did you get to marry you, when all you earn is minimum wage?
get a frigging skill
you earn what you are worth
Click to expand...

I sadly agree with you for the most part. It is my opinion that to some extent it is irresponsible for people to start families when they can't fully provide for that family.

I also agree with the whole earn what you're worth thing.

Why should employers be forced to pay people more when those people haven't rightfully earned a raise?

If the employees don't like their pay. They can put some effort into getting a higher education and EARNING a better pay.
 
I sadly agree with you for the most part. It is my opinion that to some extent it is irresponsible for people to start families when they can't fully provide for that family.

I also agree with the whole earn what you're worth thing.

Why should employers be forced to pay people more when those people haven't rightfully earned a raise?

If the employees don't like their pay. They can put some effort into getting a higher education and EARNING a better pay.
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Spoken like a 20-year-old father-to-be, who suffers from potentially debilitating health problems. :roll:

Sorry to be harsh, Hatuey, but your self-assurance bespeaks a rather poignant lack of experience with the world and of the precariousness of your own position in it; not to mention an almost unbelievable naivete about the ways in which your fellow human beings are not just, ethical, fair, or kind... unless we force them to be.
What else is government good for, really?
 
I agree, for the first time in history it seems, with jamesrage. A minimum wage is necessary to protect the worker from corruption within the corporations that could conspire to artificially keep wages low.
 
DeeJayH said:
or maybe they should not have a family until after they have an education and a job skill
Click to expand...

The government was never meant to do some of the things it does now. Having the government control when you can have children? That's just bizarre.

Edit: fixed :D
 
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-Demosthenes- said:
The government was never meant to do some of the things it does now. Having the government control when you can have children? That's just bizarre.
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Fvck the wha...? :confused:
Government controlling when you can have children?
What are you talking about?
Link, please?

*edit:

Oh, wait, I think I got it.
You're referring to DeeJayH's "eugenics" scheme, I'll bet.
 
1069 said:
Spoken like a 20-year-old father-to-be, who suffers from potentially debilitating health problems. :roll:

Sorry to be harsh, Hatuey, but your self-assurance bespeaks a rather poignant lack of experience with the world and of the precariousness of your own position in it; not to mention an almost unbelievable naivete about the ways in which your fellow human beings are not just, ethical, fair, or kind... unless we force them to be.
What else is government good for, really?
Click to expand...

Yeah I guess to some extent you're right on the experience thing but I guess I feel this way because I believe people should earn things the way I had to earn them. I didn't get to where I am today because I waited until the government made it possible for me to push. If I had I'd still be in Compton pushing rocks. I guess I feel people today want everything handed down to them on a silver platter.
 
1069 said:
Fvck the wha...? :confused:
Government controlling when you can have children?
What are you talking about?
Link, please?

*edit:

Oh, wait, I think I got it.
You're referring to DeeJayH's "eugenics" scheme, I'll bet.
Click to expand...

Me thinks he speaks of China but China doesn't control when you have them...just how many....and what sex....
 
Hatuey said:
Yeah I guess to some extent you're right on the experience thing but I guess I feel this way because I believe people should earn things the way I had to earn them. I didn't get to where I am today because I waited until the government made it possible for me to push. If I had I'd still be in Compton pushing rocks. I guess I feel people today want everything handed down to them on a silver platter.
Click to expand...

There is a real problem with welfare, but not with minimum wage. There were a lot of problems with companies paying people jack for doing work when the country first industrialized. Unskilled labor isn't worth much, but it should be able to take care of you basic needs. We need to deemphasize welfare and reemphasize minimum wage. Encourage people to get jobs, take care of themselves. Getting rid of minimum wage would give people less of a reason to get a job. Then taxpayers have to take care of them.

Regulation on the economy is regrettable, but necessary. We don't want the government to control commerce, but sometimes it has to do something.
 
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