Mass shootings aren't hoaxes/false flags. Prove me wrong.

[Mach]

I know I'll regret entering this sub-forum but...what did they produce to claim that Sandy Hook was staged?

Gods I was thinking the same thing as I hit your post. It has all the trappings of a reasonable discussion, except when you look closely, it's insane. It's a trap!

 

[Thoreau72]

What appeal to emotion? There was none, but there was dismissal because I presented a simple, *inexpensive* easily acquired data point to prove the theory wrong and no one has done it.

Nor do you seem to even have evaluated the logistics of those thousands of parents and what it would take to invalidate or make pay offs to ensure their compliance. Let's see that...let's see an explanation on how to get around that?

The appeal to emotion was invoking the parents who lost children, or however you phrased it.

You seem to ignore physical facts like the presence of a sign, staged pictures taken at the wrong time of year, the absence of internet activity at the school, the absence of proper painting at the school, the absurdity of the claims regarding Lanza's marksmanship or the ability of a scrawny young man to carry his own weight in ammo and weapons, the meaning of non-disclosure agreements forced by the authorities, and many other facts, all in favor of parents doing or not doing some hypothetical you've constructed.

 

[JasperL]

Rationalize it any way that you need to sir.

With Connecticut authorities showing up at Halbig's home in Florida to tell him to STFU, I'm skilled enough at reading between the lines to understand just whose ox is being gored.

You may certainly pretend that Barack and others in government would not deceive you, but I know better. eace

I know that government will deceive me, but you're missing the point, I suppose on purpose.

Why would ordinary families, ALL OF THEM, who had kids in a school that was shut down pretend for years and years that instead of dropping them off at the new school, they continued to drop them off at the shuttered Sandy Hook Elementary? Not just the parents, but the kids, who are all over social media.

 

[Thoreau72]

I know that government will deceive me, but you're missing the point, I suppose on purpose.

Why would ordinary families, ALL OF THEM, who had kids in a school that was shut down pretend for years and years that instead of dropping them off at the new school, they continued to drop them off at the shuttered Sandy Hook Elementary? Not just the parents, but the kids, who are all over social media.

Money? Fame? The idea that their deception advances a noble cause?

It's interesting that the "aggrieved father" suing Halbig never showed up for his case.

Why did so many "honorable catholics" pretend for decades that priests and bishops were not assaulting children? Why did parents and staff at a school put on a big show for about 4 hours regarding a texting while driving accident that didn't really happen?

I can only speculate as to what actually motivates humans, why they do the things they do.

The point here is forensic, I suppose. The facts work against the story. We saw that first hand and quickly with Scott Pelley at San Bernardino.

 

[JasperL]

Money? Fame? The idea that their deception advances a noble cause?

Are you kidding? If they want fame, they don't keep their mouths shut and be anonymous enablers of one of the most massive hoaxes of all time - they bravely tell the truth, write books, go on talk shows, show the proof that this school shut down, and then Oliver Stone makes a movie about it, featuring these brave souls who uncovered the hoax.

It's interesting that the "aggrieved father" suing Halbig never showed up for his case.

Why did so many "honorable catholics" pretend for decades that priests and bishops were not assaulting children?

Why did parents and staff at a school put on a big show for about 4 hours regarding a texting while driving accident that didn't really happen?

I can only speculate as to what actually motivates humans, why they do the things they do.

The point here is forensic, I suppose. The facts work against the story. We saw that first hand and quickly with Scott Pelley at San Bernardino.

I waded into this mess, but I'll leave it here. It's incredible, unbelievable, fanciful to me that one can arrange for at least hundreds, likely thousands, to go along with one of the biggest hoaxes in U.S. history when there is simply no identifiable motive to keep them quiet, against powerful motives for them to reveal this massive fraud on the American people.

 

[Thoreau72]

Are you kidding? If they want fame, they don't keep their mouths shut and be anonymous enablers of one of the most massive hoaxes of all time - they bravely tell the truth, write books, go on talk shows, show the proof that this school shut down, and then Oliver Stone makes a movie about it, featuring these brave souls who uncovered the hoax.



I waded into this mess, but I'll leave it here. It's incredible, unbelievable, fanciful to me that one can arrange for at least hundreds, likely thousands, to go along with one of the biggest hoaxes in U.S. history when there is simply no identifiable motive to keep them quiet, against powerful motives for them to reveal this massive fraud on the American people.

I appreciate your reasonable response. I've provided several possible motives, but you quickly reject them. Not to worry sir, life goes on. Indeed, it is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled.

To keep it on thread topic, there are many of these events that were staged. Not all, but some. It is most unpleasant and difficult to come to terms with the idea that your elected leaders would be so deceptive and mendacious, but such behavior is just a fact of life.

And to be clear, it does not make me happy that such deceptions have been organized. eace

 

[Quag]

I appreciate your reasonable response. I've provided several possible motives, but you quickly reject them. Not to worry sir, life goes on. Indeed, it is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled.

To keep it on thread topic, there are many of these events that were staged. Not all, but some. It is most unpleasant and difficult to come to terms with the idea that your elected leaders would be so deceptive and mendacious, but such behavior is just a fact of life.

And to be clear, it does not make me happy that such deceptions have been organized. eace

Still not a shred of evidence to back up any of your CT claims (some of which are mutually exclusive)

 

[JasperL]

I appreciate your reasonable response. I've provided several possible motives, but you quickly reject them. Not to worry sir, life goes on. Indeed, it is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled.

To keep it on thread topic, there are many of these events that were staged. Not all, but some. It is most unpleasant and difficult to come to terms with the idea that your elected leaders would be so deceptive and mendacious, but such behavior is just a fact of life.

And to be clear, it does not make me happy that such deceptions have been organized. eace

First of all, there is the very distinct possibility it's you who has been fooled, and I'm not putting my faith in 'elected leaders' but hundreds or thousands of ordinary parents, residents, children, police, school administrators, doctors, nurses, orderlies, janitors, hospital administrators, EMTs, firemen, funeral directors, extended family and friends who showed up for fake funerals of people who didn't exist or who are still alive, people who lived near the schools, people who drove by them on their way to work, people with no motive to lie.

 

[Maccabee]

Because I'm bored at the moment?

That doesnt help me or answer the thread question, though.

I reached the point long ago in understanding the truth and wisdom in "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. You can lead a man to knowledge, but you cannot make him think."

First off, if you truly believe that then why even mention conspiracy theories in the first place? Especially in threads that doesn't call for it? Secondly, I drank from your water thinking it was good only to find out it's swamp water and started drinking from the fresh stream.

The SH story was a farce, and its purpose was to deliver a reason for gun control. It is interesting that it was essentially a failure on that federal level. Like 911, the story fails under close examination.

Then please explain how. You're not leading any horse to water. You're only telling the horse that there's water nearby but not even telling it how to get there.

Whether any individual understands that or not depends on his own ability to formulate, ask and find the answer to important questions. I have no stake in your understanding any event, just as you have no stake in my understanding any event.

My ability to formulate lead me away from the Sandy Hook CT. So exactly what am I overlooking?

 

[Lursa]

The appeal to emotion was invoking the parents who lost children, or however you phrased it.

You seem to ignore physical facts like the presence of a sign, staged pictures taken at the wrong time of year, the absence of internet activity at the school, the absence of proper painting at the school, the absurdity of the claims regarding Lanza's marksmanship or the ability of a scrawny young man to carry his own weight in ammo and weapons, the meaning of non-disclosure agreements forced by the authorities, and many other facts, all in favor of parents doing or not doing some hypothetical you've constructed.

*blinks*

Hundreds or thousands of parents dropping kids off at that school everyday. Entering it for school activities. Etc Etc etc.

Please explain that one. It's from your own source: that SH was actually closed and the kids all going elsewhere.

That one simple thing. How did they get them all to lie and/or tell the same story?

 

[Lursa]

Money? Fame? The idea that their deception advances a noble cause?

Hundreds/ thousands of them? Not one cracked? Not one 2A supporter? It's far from a noble cause so it's ridiculous to believe that ALL of them would support it. And fame would be the exact opposite the 'fantasy engineers' would want because all these people would never hold up under close scrutiny.

Here's another one: check all their bank accounts for the same amount of $ deposited in the same time frame. Or overseas accounts opened for all of them? :roll:

 

[zyzygy]

Hundreds/ thousands of them? Not one cracked? Not one 2A supporter? It's far from a noble cause so it's ridiculous to believe that ALL of them would support it. And fame would be the exact opposite the 'fantasy engineers' would want because all these people would never hold up under close scrutiny.

Here's another one: check all their bank accounts for the same amount of $ deposited in the same time frame. Or overseas accounts opened for all of them? :roll:

Were they all contacted for the first time by email? Dear Sir/ Madam would you like to join in a false flag evil government operation? The money is good.

 

[Maccabee]

The appeal to emotion was invoking the parents who lost children, or however you phrased it.

You seem to ignore physical facts like the presence of a sign, staged pictures taken at the wrong time of year, the absence of internet activity at the school, the absence of proper painting at the school, the absurdity of the claims regarding Lanza's marksmanship or the ability of a scrawny young man to carry his own weight in ammo and weapons, the meaning of non-disclosure agreements forced by the authorities, and many other facts, all in favor of parents doing or not doing some hypothetical you've constructed.

Links to these claims, please.

 

[zyzygy]

Links to these claims, please.

He has never been know to post a link that proves his claims.

 

[Maccabee]

Money? Fame? The idea that their deception advances a noble cause?

We have Navy SEALs writing books about how they killed Bin Ladin before they were cleared to do so and yet you expect at least 100s of soccer moms to keep quiet to perpetuate a theory that they have no vested interest in?

It's interesting that the "aggrieved father" suing Halbig never showed up for his case.

I don't know the details behind this case but my guess would be that since the father isn't rich and have to take time off work, maybe complications arose where he couldn't show up.

Why did so many "honorable catholics" pretend for decades that priests and bishops were not assaulting children?

First off, who are you referring to when you say "honorable catholics"? Are you referring to your neighbor who's a catholic or are you talking about catholics with positions? If it's the former, the answer is pretty simple, people don't like to think that they were betrayed by an authority figure they trusted. It's like how some abused children refuse to believe they were abused by their parents. If it's the latter, again, the answer is pretty simple, they have a vested interest in preserving the reputation of the the Catholic Church.

Second, child abuse within the Catholic Church has always been an open secret. People were out there telling their own abuse stories. Why don't we have ANYONE who was directly involved or affected by Sandy Hook telling us that the whole thing was staged?

Why did parents and staff at a school put on a big show for about 4 hours regarding a texting while driving accident that didn't really happen?

Link?

I can only speculate as to what actually motivates humans, why they do the things they do.

The point here is forensic, I suppose. The facts work against the story. We saw that first hand and quickly with Scott Pelley at San Bernardino.

What facts? You haven't presented anything.

 

[zyzygy]

We have Navy SEALs writing books about how they killed Bin Ladin before they were cleared to do so and yet you expect at least 100s of soccer moms to keep quiet to perpetuate a theory that they have no vested interest in?



I don't know the details behind this case but my guess would be that since the father isn't rich and have to take time off work, maybe complications arose where he couldn't show up.


First off, who are you referring to when you say "honorable catholics"? Are you referring to your neighbor who's a catholic or are you talking about catholics with positions? If it's the former, the answer is pretty simple, people don't like to think that they were betrayed by an authority figure they trusted. It's like how some abused children refuse to believe they were abused by their parents. If it's the latter, again, the answer is pretty simple, they have a vested interest in preserving the reputation of the the Catholic Church.

Second, child abuse within the Catholic Church has always been an open secret. People were out there telling their own abuse stories. Why don't we have ANYONE who was directly involved or affected by Sandy Hook telling us that the whole thing was staged?



Link?

What facts? You haven't presented anything.

The answer is that it was not staged. And you're right he has not presented any facts that would support his absurd "theory'.

 

[Quag]

He has never been know to post a link that proves his claims.

He did try once, a long time ago but it turned out the link disproved his claim. Since then he doesnt do links because they have all been scrubbed from the internet

 

[zyzygy]

He did try once, a long time ago but it turned out the link disproved his claim. Since then he doesnt do links because they have all been scrubbed from the internet

And it would never occur to the people who posted the stuff on the net to post it again somewhere else.

 

[Quag]

And it would never occur to the people who posted the stuff on the net to post it again somewhere else.

I think they ended up in the same place as the kids who "died" in Sandy Hook or the "passengers" on 911

 

[Thoreau72]

First of all, there is the very distinct possibility it's you who has been fooled, and I'm not putting my faith in 'elected leaders' but hundreds or thousands of ordinary parents, residents, children, police, school administrators, doctors, nurses, orderlies, janitors, hospital administrators, EMTs, firemen, funeral directors, extended family and friends who showed up for fake funerals of people who didn't exist or who are still alive, people who lived near the schools, people who drove by them on their way to work, people with no motive to lie.

No, actually at first I believed the story. You may not understand, but I do tend to accept official narratives at first. My trouble is I think like an investigator.

I believed this official narrative at first because I have 2 friends who live near the school and who know the principal.

Because I think like an investigator, and because I do watch the news and see how police respond to the somewhat new phenomenon of cameras everywhere, and because I watched an interview with the school security consultant and discovered there were 20+ security cameras in the school, I'm curious as to why there are no pictures, not one from 20+ cameras, of Cruz doing what they said he did. Especially considering that 2 staff members saw and described the shooters, I'm really curious as to why 20+ cameras did not capture a single frame that would corroborate the official story.

That 1 of those teachers said that there had been a public announcement that morning advising of a "training exercise" that day, including the firing of blanks and a lot of screaming and shouting, the element of training exercise so common to other such events stands out. Call me Columbo. :mrgreen:

 

[Thoreau72]

*blinks*

Hundreds or thousands of parents dropping kids off at that school everyday. Entering it for school activities. Etc Etc etc.

Please explain that one. It's from your own source: that SH was actually closed and the kids all going elsewhere.

That one simple thing. How did they get them all to lie and/or tell the same story?

Will you explain your source for hundreds of thousands of parents?

 

[JasperL]

No, actually at first I believed the story. You may not understand, but I do tend to accept official narratives at first. My trouble is I think like an investigator.

I believed this official narrative at first because I have 2 friends who live near the school and who know the principal.

Because I think like an investigator, and because I do watch the news and see how police respond to the somewhat new phenomenon of cameras everywhere, and because I watched an interview with the school security consultant and discovered there were 20+ security cameras in the school, I'm curious as to why there are no pictures, not one from 20+ cameras, of Cruz doing what they said he did. Especially considering that 2 staff members saw and described the shooters, I'm really curious as to why 20+ cameras did not capture a single frame that would corroborate the official story.

That 1 of those teachers said that there had been a public announcement that morning advising of a "training exercise" that day, including the firing of blanks and a lot of screaming and shouting, the element of training exercise so common to other such events stands out. Call me Columbo. :mrgreen:

You completely ignored my point, which is I'm not relying on "elected officials" but likely thousands of ordinary people....

And what is the story here? Was there an announcement at Sandy Hook Elementary about an exercise at that school? Because you linked to a story that reported the esteemed investigator Halbig has proof Sandy Hook was closed, no kids went to school there, that they'd all been transferred to another school. So which version of the CT are you talking about in this response? In this version is the school open or closed?

 

[JasperL]

Will you explain your source for hundreds of thousands of parents?

Hundreds OR thousands....

 

[Thoreau72]

You completely ignored my point, which is I'm not relying on "elected officials" but likely thousands of ordinary people....

And what is the story here? Was there an announcement at Sandy Hook Elementary about an exercise at that school? Because you linked to a story that reported the esteemed investigator Halbig has proof Sandy Hook was closed, no kids went to school there, that they'd all been transferred to another school. So which version of the CT are you talking about in this response? In this version is the school open or closed?

I'm talking about Parkland here, and sorry if you were confused. Because Halbig was employed by Parkland, it was relevant to bring him up. If you examine his credentials, you will see he has been active in law enforcement and school security for many years.

The announcement I mentioned was at Parkland.

The only announcement at SH was the sign in front of the nearby fire station advising "all participants" to "check in".

As to your point, do you suppose that "thousands of ordinary people" could be deceived?

 

[Quag]

I'm talking about Parkland here, and sorry if you were confused. Because Halbig was employed by Parkland, it was relevant to bring him up. If you examine his credentials, you will see he has been active in law enforcement and school security for many years.

The announcement I mentioned was at Parkland.

The only announcement at SH was the sign in front of the nearby fire station advising "all participants" to "check in".

As to your point, do you suppose that "thousands of ordinary people" could be deceived?

Still no evidecne from HD and no logical reason to even attempt this impossibel to cover up CT

Another swing and a miss from a guy who beleives every single CT he has ever heard even when they are mutually excluisive