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Marriage Violates Seperation of Church and State

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.

Go to church to get married.
 

Carjosse

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No it doesn't as marriage is used by every religious groups and atheists and has existed before modern religion in almost every society.
 

shrubnose

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.

Go to church to get married.





The Supreme Court will not be declaring marriage unconstitutional any time soon.

Trust me on this one.
 

ttwtt78640

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.

Go to church to get married.

States, by simply offering a marriage contract, neither establish a religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof. Does the prohibition of murder also promote religion by enforcing "thou shalt not kill"? The state has the power to do many things, in fact, all that is not specifically granted to the federal gov't or reserved to the people by the constitution.
 

Goshin

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.

Go to church to get married.



Somewhat agree.
 

head of joaquin

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.

Go to church to get married.

I agree. We should have civil unions for all consenting adults. They would have legal force. Marriage should be left for churches and they could have any crazy requirements or restrictions they want. It would have no legal force.

The problem is, historically ministers and priests sanctified marriages, and the law carried on that tradition even when we stopped allowing the church to interfere in civil matters. We should have made the separation at the founding of the country, but didn't. We should do it now.
 

AGENT J

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.

Go to church to get married.

sorry this is the most illogical, irrational, nonsensical and factually false and failed argument i have ever read on this issue.

i would LOVE for you to try and support this false claim.

LEGAL marriage promotes ZERO religious beliefs, ZERO. Stating otherwise is 100% false

it also stops ZERO people from going to church and having a religious marriage which has nothing to do with legal marriage.
 

AGENT J

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I agree. We should have civil unions for all consenting adults. They would have legal force. Marriage should be left for churches and they could have any crazy requirements or restrictions they want. It would have no legal force.

The problem is, historically ministers and priests sanctified marriages, and the law carried on that tradition even when we stopped allowing the church to interfere in civil matters. We should have made the separation at the founding of the country, but didn't. We should do it now.

this is already true now for religious marriage, so its already done
 

Summerwind

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I agree. We should have civil unions for all consenting adults. They would have legal force. Marriage should be left for churches and they could have any crazy requirements or restrictions they want. It would have no legal force.

The problem is, historically ministers and priests sanctified marriages, and the law carried on that tradition even when we stopped allowing the church to interfere in civil matters. We should have made the separation at the founding of the country, but didn't. We should do it now.
I agree and add, it should be any two people who agree to coexist and depend on each other. Here I'm thinking about all the women and their daughters who've given up on the idea of either re-marrying and with the exception of sex, their roles as the two parents, the sharing of assets and income, and so on is virtually the same. Or two friends. If divorce weren't so common, one might argue against this as it might not be as permanent as marriage, but truth is, marriage isn't very permanent anymore.

All that said, it costs less to cohabitate, so I've always thought it was weird and backward to give perks (here I'm thinking taxes primarily) to those that are already spending less for the same comforts.
 

Grand Mal

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.

Go to church to get married.

What is this thread about? Are you objecting to people saying they're married if it was a civil ceremony? Or to the fact that churches can create a legal institution?
 
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What is this thread about? Are you objecting to people saying they're married if it was a civil ceremony? Or to the fact that churches can create a legal institution?

No that the state uses religious language. Marriage is a religious word. The state has no religious authority. The state only has civil authority and all state unions are civil unions.
 

AGENT J

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1.) Marriage is a religious word. The state has no religious authority. The state only has civil authority and all state unions are civil unions.

1.) 100% false religion does not own that word lol
2.) correct and its good thing it factually isnt practicing any religious authority
3.) correct legal marriage factually is

your op is a complete and factual failure
 

Grand Mal

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No that the state uses religious language. Marriage is a religious word. The state has no religious authority. The state only has civil authority and all state unions are civil unions.

So how would you have the State describe a state of marriage? On the form where it says, 'marital status', what should it say? "Have you entered into a civil union?"
I'm not buying it. I think you're quibbling, which means I'm quibbling, too.
Later.
 
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So how would you have the State describe a state of marriage? On the form where it says, 'marital status', what should it say? "Have you entered into a civil union?"
I'm not buying it. I think you're quibbling, which means I'm quibbling, too.
Later.

Yes it will say civil union.
 

roguenuke

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No, religion does not own the word marriage. It owns "holy matrimony" (sort of), but not marriage. No group or person can own the word "marriage" so it cannot be legitimately claimed by religion.
 

Grand Mal

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No, religion does not own the word marriage. It owns "holy matrimony" (sort of), but not marriage. No group or person can own the word "marriage" so it cannot be legitimately claimed by religion.

I wonder what he thinks of the word, 'divorced'. Maybe it should be 'rescinded civil union'. Why settle for two syllables when seven are available?
 

iguanaman

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I agree. We should have civil unions for all consenting adults. They would have legal force. Marriage should be left for churches and they could have any crazy requirements or restrictions they want. It would have no legal force.

The problem is, historically ministers and priests sanctified marriages, and the law carried on that tradition even when we stopped allowing the church to interfere in civil matters. We should have made the separation at the founding of the country, but didn't. We should do it now.

The marriage license is a civil document and the ceremony does not require any religion to be involved. A "Justice of the Peace" is not a religious office. I think we have pretty much what you want right now. The problem is that now the States determine who to give licenses to.
 

Bob Blaylock

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.

Go to church to get married.

Marriage has always been the basis of every stable human society, regardless of what religions may have had what degrees of influence in any given society.

Any government has a vested interest in promoting those things that lead to a stable and prosperous society for all of its citizens, and marriage is one of the most essential of these institutions.
 

instagramsci

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Marriage has always been the basis of every stable human society, regardless of what religions may have had what degrees of influence in any given society.

Any government has a vested interest in promoting those things that lead to a stable and prosperous society for all of its citizens, and marriage is one of the most essential of these institutions.

What are your parameters for "stable"?
 

davidtaylorjr

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sorry this is the most illogical, irrational, nonsensical and factually false and failed argument i have ever read on this issue.

i would LOVE for you to try and support this false claim.

LEGAL marriage promotes ZERO religious beliefs, ZERO. Stating otherwise is 100% false

it also stops ZERO people from going to church and having a religious marriage which has nothing to do with legal marriage.

Here we go again with Mr. Know it All. Everyone else is a liar and dishonest, and a kid. sheesh.
 

head of joaquin

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this is already true now for religious marriage, so its already done

That's true, except we have the situation that religious marriage and legal marriage still use the same term, and the government licenses priests and ministers to carry out legal marriages. I think we should just give the word "marriage" to religions, and keep the term civil unions for all legally recognized unions, and thus avoid this battle over "marriage". With marriage liberated from any legal standing any church or group could have any restrictions or requirements or none, that they want. And nobody could interfere with that, and it wouldn't cause any more social conflict.
 

head of joaquin

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No, religion does not own the word marriage. It owns "holy matrimony" (sort of), but not marriage. No group or person can own the word "marriage" so it cannot be legitimately claimed by religion.

But that's what the fight is over. I think the battle is stupid but there it is. So I suspect that if we just stopped using the term marriage in a legal context, and switch to civil unions for everybody, the conflict would end. Everybody could say they won, since religious groups could claim that only their marriages counts, and nobody would care since it would have no legal force.
 

roguenuke

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But that's what the fight is over. I think the battle is stupid but there it is. So I suspect that if we just stopped using the term marriage in a legal context, and switch to civil unions for everybody, the conflict would end. Everybody could say they won, since religious groups could claim that only their marriages counts, and nobody would care since it would have no legal force.

It doesn't matter what words people believe they own. They don't own it.

And it would be a huge waste of time and money to change legal words just to appease those who are offended by certain other groups being having words extended to cover them.

Would it not have been wrong to change the word "citizen" to something else after slaves were freed and blacks gained rights had someone claimed offense about black people being able to use that term to describe themselves?

The government nor society should purposely change legal words just to avoid offending some people. We would constantly be changing legal documents/terms. It is a horrible precedent to set.
 

Ontologuy

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Use of the word Marriage is unconstitutional as it promotes religious beliefs. The state only has the power to grant civil union and all unions are thus civil unions.
Go to church to get married.
Absolutely and ludicrously false.

Marriage was created over 12,000 years ago just before the agricultural revolution.

It thus predates all religions.

One can get married with or without any religious affiliation or action, obviously.

The only requirement about marriage in America is that it gets documented in state files.

Playing the religion card in this topic is historically a laughable debate losing tactic.
 

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The Supreme Court will not be declaring marriage unconstitutional any time soon.

Trust me on this one.

That's actually kind of funny. :lol:
 
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