Man shoots Co-Workers in office building after altercation.

[notquiteright]

1.I have a hard time trusting anti-2nd amendment loon studies.
2.Telling everyone you know that you carry concealed fire arm defeats the purpose of concealed carry.So I doubt anyone would be bragging.
3.If his place of employment allowed concealed carry, then chances are he wouldn't be shooting up that place because mass shootings occure in places where people are not armed.Even the Fort Hood shooting occurred where there were not any armed people.

Ahhhh don't like the results call it loony and move on.... :roll:
But the test is easy enough to do and replicated in many defensive pistol classes, use airsoft and goggles.

Oh ya don't have to brag, but many do, chicks dig tuff guys, all ya have to do is uncover from time to time in class, lots of chances as you sit, bend and stand. it isn't all that easy to spend hours a day, several days a week around people and no one notice. (Did you miss the part where the school worker showed a teacher her weapon in the locker?)

Again you don't admit why a place is picked, because the person has a grudge against the people, not because he thought no one would have a weapon. The guy who went into the Jersey police station right after Christmas didn't go there because he thought everyone would be unarmed.

He had a grudge.

 

[jamesrage]

Oh ya don't have to brag, but many do, chicks dig tuff guys, all ya have to do is uncover from time to time in class, lots of chances as you sit, bend and stand. it isn't all that easy to spend hours a day, several days a week around people and no one notice. (Did you miss the part where the school worker showed a teacher her weapon in the locker?)

Again telling everyone that you conceal carry defeats the purpose of concealed carry.

Again you don't admit why a place is picked, because the person has a grudge against the people, not because he thought no one would have a weapon. The guy who went into the Jersey police station right after Christmas didn't go there because he thought everyone would be unarmed.

He had a grudge.

I am pretty sure that if he knew the place was armed he wouldn't have taken out his grudge on unarmed co-workers. Armed people do not make easy targets.

 

[TurtleDude]

Again telling everyone that you conceal carry defeats the purpose of concealed carry.



I am pretty sure that if he knew the place was armed he wouldn't have taken out his grudge on unarmed co-workers. Armed people do not make easy targets.

I believe some of the "disarm the victim" crowd want criminals to succeed. In some cases, they blame society for causing someone to be a criminal and to them its not fair that a criminal gets shot for doing what he cannot help

In other cases, they realize that people who cannot fight back against violent sociopaths are more willing to cede rights to the government in the false belief that such a trade will garner them more safety.

 

[Lukas105]

It life insurance in a sense, You may need it for that one rainy day, and if you don't have it, surviving is all that harder to do.

At least you have the ability to DEFEND yourself and not cower under a desk or run away and get shot in the back.

Could have, might have, maybe would.

Sorry Charlie, several studies, one done on ABC a few years ago showed how badly that theory falls apart once it hits reality.

The odds of the victims being able to present and fire before the armed man shoots, and sometimes repeatedly is well proven. The motion to draw is obvious and must be done smoothly. If the bad guy is facing the concealed carry person he has a tremendous advantage. If the shooter is an employee then it is a very good bet he knows who to shoot first.

Best chance a CCW has is to not be in the same room as the shooter, have enough time to draw, get the proper mindset, and then not confront but have a back shot so they can place the rounds where they count and end the problem.

Trying to frame the debate as criminal vs unarmed isn't that accurate, ANY misuse of a firearm is criminal, that too easy a dodge. No it is someone who decides today he wants to kill some people, usually people he knows, for whatever slight he feels can't be corrected without bloodshed.

He wasn't a criminal the day before, not some career criminal, not some 3 time loser.

 

[Thrilla]

Maybe it was self defense? Stapler vs Gun... Maybe someone threatened him with a hole puncher or something. Or.. maybe someone stole his shiny bright red stapler... Yet another shooting, and more dead people. Brought to you byyyyyyyyy... Guns.. Back you your regularly scheduled program.

I'm glad the well armed police department was there to put a stop to this murder.


aww crap, they showed up late again?... my bad.

 

[Harshaw]

Do you get the feeling as I do that gun banners like Capster78 love to read about killings so they can use the blood of the victims to fuel their anti gun jihad which has nothing to do with public safety?

Capster appears to spend the day scanning the news just so he can breathlessly report it here.

 

[Glowpun]

Maybe it was self defense? Stapler vs Gun... Maybe someone threatened him with a hole puncher or something. Or.. maybe someone stole his shiny bright red stapler... Yet another shooting, and more dead people. Brought to you byyyyyyyyy... Guns.. Back you your regularly scheduled program.

Individual rights must be balanced with public safety. Will that ever happen? Gun control will likely come to fruit when the wrong people are no longer killed.

 

[Shewter]

So lets do nothing... yeaaahhhhh... problem solved. I guess if you ignore it, it does not exist.

Isn't that what the anti-gunners have been doing about gang violence for YEARS?

 

[notquiteright]

It life insurance in a sense, You may need it for that one rainy day, and if you don't have it, surviving is all that harder to do.

At least you have the ability to DEFEND yourself and not cower under a desk or run away and get shot in the back.

At that rate you must carry a lot of extra gear everywhere you go. You have a MUCH greater chance of being trapped in your vehicle, do you have an emergency hammer around your neck? Any sort of self extract gear that is within easy reach but secure enough so it doesn't fly some place you can't reach quickly?

I'd say you are FAR more likely to get attacked by a land shark than a disgruntled co-worker.

Course you forget you most likely will be gunned down while attempting to deploy your 'insurance' unless you are no where near the shooter and can deploy and take him from behind- in other words able to run away safely... eace

 

[elalumno]

Maybe it was self defense? Stapler vs Gun... Maybe someone threatened him with a hole puncher or something. Or.. maybe someone stole his shiny bright red stapler... Yet another shooting, and more dead people. Brought to you byyyyyyyyy... Guns.. Back you your regularly scheduled program.

OHMY GOD!!!! That's terrible!! What a horrific tragedy!

Have they caught the gun? Has the gun been arrested?

 

[justabubba]

and chances are most of those are either suicides or people with felony records. Suicides-by definition, are not going to be deterred by threats of punishment. and since Japan has a higher suicide rate than we do, gun bans-even if you could make them effective, won't affect suicides. As for scum bags killing scum bags-they already are completely banned from owning any firearm.

But again, No one with a brain believes you really care about those victims. You just love using their deaths to harass honest gun owners and your posts have proven that beyond any doubt

in this shooting of co-workers
would you please identify the victims of the shooting who should be found to be scumbags

 

[bicycleman]

in this shooting of co-workers
would you please identify the victims of the shooting who should be found to be scumbags

Have you noticed that in every workplace shooting, the managers are usually the ones getting shot? That might identify who the scumbags are in some cases, since quite a few of my supervisors were, but I had a way of fighting them. Bring down the wrath of the Union onto them.

 

[bicycleman]

At that rate you must carry a lot of extra gear everywhere you go. You have a MUCH greater chance of being trapped in your vehicle, do you have an emergency hammer around your neck? Any sort of self extract gear that is within easy reach but secure enough so it doesn't fly some place you can't reach quickly?

I'd say you are FAR more likely to get attacked by a land shark than a disgruntled co-worker.

Course you forget you most likely will be gunned down while attempting to deploy your 'insurance' unless you are no where near the shooter and can deploy and take him from behind- in other words able to run away safely... eace

So do you play Skyrim where you can carry a crossbow, bow, and several huge swords, plus lots of different types of armor plus unlimited supplies of arrows and gold?

 

[justabubba]

Have you noticed that in every workplace shooting, the managers are usually the ones getting shot? That might identify who the scumbags are in some cases, since quite a few of my supervisors were, but I had a way of fighting them. Bring down the wrath of the Union onto them.

yea
was hoping turtledude would show up to describe for us which of the victims of this shooting should be found scumbags who deserved to die at the point of a gun and why

 

[notquiteright]

Again telling everyone that you conceal carry defeats the purpose of concealed carry. I am pretty sure that if he knew the place was armed he wouldn't have taken out his grudge on unarmed co-workers. Armed people do not make easy targets.

I have been a student of humans for awhile now. You don't have to tell EVERYBODY, just SOMEBODY and soon enough it spreads around. It just takes one good exposure and soon everyone knows. if you conceal carry much you too know that in all your day to day activity you expose from time to time. You ain't shy about your opinion on firearms and CCW, i can see you easily telling someone you carry to not be a victim.

There you go again, looking facts directly in the face and not seeing what is REALLY happening. A disgruntled man goes into a POLICE STATION and opens fire. Did HE think the people in the POLICE STATION would be unarmed? hell in many cases they could be wearing body armor!

These shooters don't think about the ramifications as much as killing the person/people he has a grudge against. Hell's bells he should know he isn't going to 'get away' with it. they are angry at a spouse, ex-spouse, boss, other employee to the point taking their life seems the best option.

Many kill themselves after killing the target of their anger- do you REALLY think they gave a rat's hiney if someone else would be armed nearby?

trying to claim the shooter, who isn't calm rational and happy go lucky, picks the venue because of a sign at the door ignores the reason he is going into the place. To kill a someone he has a grudge against. be it a group or a former spouse.

 

[Texmex]

I mean, you can have a pot of tea ready for the ATF when they come to rifle through all of your belongings, but some of us have a greater sense of dignity and love of freedom than that.

According to a very brief look at Google shows that there are 125 million homes in the U.S. and only 2400 ATF agents. You do the math.

 

[tech30528]

Maybe it was self defense? Stapler vs Gun... Maybe someone threatened him with a hole puncher or something. Or.. maybe someone stole his shiny bright red stapler... Yet another shooting, and more dead people. Brought to you byyyyyyyyy... Guns.. Back you your regularly scheduled program.

Now show me how any legislation currently being discussed, From Obama's executive orders to Feinstein's proposed AWB would have prevented this.

 

[jamesrage]

I have been a student of humans for awhile now. You don't have to tell EVERYBODY, just SOMEBODY and soon enough it spreads around. It just takes one good exposure and soon everyone knows. if you conceal carry much you too know that in all your day to day activity you expose from time to time. You ain't shy about your opinion on firearms and CCW, i can see you easily telling someone you carry to not be a victim.

Again telling people you conceal carry defeats the purpose of conceal carry.

There you go again, looking facts directly in the face and not seeing what is REALLY happening. A disgruntled man goes into a POLICE STATION and opens fire. Did HE think the people in the POLICE STATION would be unarmed? hell in many cases they could be wearing body armor!

These shooters don't think about the ramifications as much as killing the person/people he has a grudge against. Hell's bells he should know he isn't going to 'get away' with it. they are angry at a spouse, ex-spouse, boss, other employee to the point taking their life seems the best option.

Many kill themselves after killing the target of their anger- do you REALLY think they gave a rat's hiney if someone else would be armed nearby?

trying to claim the shooter, who isn't calm rational and happy go lucky, picks the venue because of a sign at the door ignores the reason he is going into the place. To kill a someone he has a grudge against. be it a group or a former spouse.

The OP story doesn't have anything to do with a police station. I never heard of a mass shooting a police station.

 

[tech30528]

WOW! 50 police cars on the scene! Just in time to have been outrun by a 72 year old man. We need moron control.

Just enforces that idea that we don't need to protect ourselves because the government is perfectly capable of taking care of us.

 

[Harshaw]

According to a very brief look at Google shows that there are 125 million homes in the U.S. and only 2400 ATF agents. You do the math.

Well, then, for Capster78 to get what he wants, that force will have to increased substantially.

Or the military will have to do it.

 

[tech30528]

Could have, might have, maybe would.

Sorry Charlie, several studies, one done on ABC a few years ago showed how badly that theory falls apart once it hits reality.

The odds of the victims being able to present and fire before the armed man shoots, and sometimes repeatedly is well proven. The motion to draw is obvious and must be done smoothly. If the bad guy is facing the concealed carry person he has a tremendous advantage. If the shooter is an employee then it is a very good bet he knows who to shoot first.

Best chance a CCW has is to not be in the same room as the shooter, have enough time to draw, get the proper mindset, and then not confront but have a back shot so they can place the rounds where they count and end the problem.

Trying to frame the debate as criminal vs unarmed isn't that accurate, ANY misuse of a firearm is criminal, that too easy a dodge. No it is someone who decides today he wants to kill some people, usually people he knows, for whatever slight he feels can't be corrected without bloodshed.

He wasn't a criminal the day before, not some career criminal, not some 3 time loser.

I think I saw that one. Was that the one where they handed a pistol to a college kid and then did a mock shooter scenario? IIRC he stated that he was reasonably proficient and they took him at his word for that (first logical fallacy, ask anybody about their driving abilities and nearly all of them will describe themselves as better than average, a statistical impossibility). Then they tucked the pistol in the front of his waistband under a very loose oversized shirt (a poor choice for a CCW arrangement). He was clearly not used to carrying as he kept touching and fumbling with the pistol to the point that it was obvious he was carrying to the girl next to him. As with anything else gun related you have to practice. You can not assume you can hit what you shooting at with a pistol, you have to see where the shot ends up so you can adjust. When I first started carrying I did so with an unloaded pistol for several weeks so I could get used to how it fit, how it felt, how it looked and whether or not I could get to it reasonably quickly. You don't always carry in the same place or even the same pistol depending on what you are wearing.

 

[tech30528]

So lets do nothing... yeaaahhhhh... problem solved. I guess if you ignore it, it does not exist.

There's that short attention span again, painting the world in sound bite sized pieces and a strictly black and white perspective.

Let's do this: let's recognize that there is a violence problem in this country and then try to figure out why so we can address the problem. Doing SOMETHING is not a solution unless that something solves the main issue, which none of the proposed new steps do. Maybe people are too medicated (have you seen the side affects of the increasingly more prescribed psychotropics?), maybe we are desensitized to violence (video games and movies/ TV), maybe it is the realization that the law holds no threat to a dead guy (so if you kill a hundred people and then yourself, well, there is no punishment). See, you can't stop a suicide bomber because he has been taught since birth that dying for his cause will be rewarded in heaven. In this country we don't go quite as far, we just discourage people from teaching their kids that they will be held accountable after they die. We have removed God from our lives in exchange for an increasingly disconnected mindset and the result (at least one of them) is the dehumanizing of who we used to consider our equals.

Yeah yeah. Go on and post some extreme "So you think going to church will make people more stable? ROFL!!!111ZOMG you're so backwards you probably ride a dinosaur to work" opinion you can come up with. But proposing SOMETHING, even something you and everyone else KNOWS will not work to create a warm comfy little bubble for yourself will not change it. You have to HONESTLY assess the reasons behind the violence even if some of the indicators point back in your direction. But that is just too hard for the short sighted and arrogant. Or even better, let's rub the genie bottle and say "I wish guns didn't exist" and then hide behind that completely unrealistic approach. Guns exist. Bad people exist. Mentally ill people exist. None of that can be wished away, and a one size fits all approach by a government that sees over 315 million people and dozens of regional societal norms isn't going to get it either.

 

[iliveonramen]

Maybe it was self defense? Stapler vs Gun... Maybe someone threatened him with a hole puncher or something. Or.. maybe someone stole his shiny bright red stapler... Yet another shooting, and more dead people. Brought to you byyyyyyyyy... Guns.. Back you your regularly scheduled program.

Interesting point...while the testimonies of gun violence were happening in Congress this incident took place, a girl was shot in the back at a public park, and a crazy survivalist took a child hostage after killing a buss driver. Honestly if this was a plot piece in a movie it would be so unbelievable bordering on cheesy but it's reality.

 

[notquiteright]

Again telling people you conceal carry defeats the purpose of conceal carry. The OP story doesn't have anything to do with a police station. I never heard of a mass shooting a police station.

Was the OP a 'mass shooting' as well???? No it wasn't. You can't peel the onion that much. The facts are most the shooters could care less who is or isn't armed, they are going to kill, generally a very select few people- wife, ex, ex's new friend, boss or co-worker. Trying to claim these shooters picked a 'gun' free zone is bogus.

Mass shootings the same way- i must have missed the interviews with mass shooters claiming they picked the venue because it was a gun-free zone.

And yes telling ANYONE you conceal carry defeats the purpose in that venue, class, work, hangin' with the boys. However it is done all the time, CCWs are quick to defend firearms and CCW, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they carry, especially if you look for the bulge.

Quite often concealed is a bit of a misnomer, more like bulge under the shirt carry.... eace

 

[TurtleDude]

yea
was hoping turtledude would show up to describe for us which of the victims of this shooting should be found scumbags who deserved to die at the point of a gun and why

You don't read what I wrote very well. I was saying most murders involve felons killing other felons. People with felony records are banned by federal and state law from possessing firearms. I note you dishonestly only quoted part of my comment-and you probably did not read the entire comment either.