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Malcolm X on the Second Amendment

Moot

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And so they armed themselves....and now they have the highest demographic murder rate....along with the same problems and inequalities that plagued them before they armed themselves.
 

Black Dog

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And so they armed themselves....and now they have the highest demographic murder rate....along with the same problems and inequalities that plagued them before they armed themselves.
No. You are confusing arming a law abiding citizen to an armed gang banging thug. It is actually very hard for someone who is poor to get a gun to defend themselves. Between the cost of the weapon itself and all the little extra's vs gas for your car or food... Well the choice is clear.

You are not only misrepresenting his message, you are turning it into something it was never meant to be.

Nice job.
 

MaggieD

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And so they armed themselves....and now they have the highest demographic murder rate....along with the same problems and inequalities that plagued them before they armed themselves.
Does this statement from you insinuate that you don't think the Second Amendment should apply to "them"? Just asking . . . Just want to be sure I understand what your comment means . . .
 

ThePlayDrive

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1. He was such a good speaker.

2. Your argument is just as overly simplistic as the pro-gun arguments I suspect you are addressing. Maybe that's the point? I don't know. But standing alone, your argument doesn't work if only because you haven't provided any proof that the black population actually armed themselves in great numbers after that speech. I doubt they did.
 

Fisher

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And so they armed themselves....and now they have the highest demographic murder rate....along with the same problems and inequalities that plagued them before they armed themselves.
Well he was murdered about the same time the democrats declared war on the poor--just sayin'
 

jamesrage

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And so they armed themselves....and now they have the highest demographic murder rate....along with the same problems and inequalities that plagued them before they armed themselves.
He is talking about law abiding citizens arming themselves.Most of these cities that have a lot of murders it is the innocent law abiding citizen is kept or deterred from getting a gun.
 

Jetboogieman

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Even by your usual standard Moot, this is an extremely piss poor argument that deserves all the ridicule it will get.
 

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Moot

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Does this statement from you insinuate that you don't think the Second Amendment should apply to "them"? Just asking . . . Just want to be sure I understand what your comment means . . .
I think it's a good example of what happens when a demographic arm themselves to right an injustice and end up shooting themselves in the foot...so to speak. Of course they have a right to arm themselves, but it hasn't made their lives any safer or better.

If anyone was insinuating that the second amendment didn't apply to them, it was Malcolm X saying whites didn't consider blacks US citizens.

The Ballot or the Bullet....
Malcolm X - Wikiquote
 

Moot

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Well he was murdered about the same time the democrats declared war on the poor--just sayin'
Malcolm X talked about Democrats....

"...What is a Dixiecrat? A Democrat. A Dixiecrat is nothing but a Democrat in disguise. [...] The Dixiecrats in Washington, D.C., control the key committees that run the government. The only reason the Dixiecrats control these committees is because they have seniority. The only reason they have seniority is because they come from states where Negroes can’t vote. This is not even a government that’s based on democracy. It is not a government that is made up of representatives of the people. Half of the people in the South can’t even vote. Eastland is not even supposed to be in Washington. Half of the senators and congressmen who occupy these key positions in Washington, D.C., are there illegally, are there unconstitutionally...."

"A vote for a Democrat is a vote for a Dixiecrat. That’s why, in 1964, it’s time now for you and me to become more politically mature and realize what the ballot is for; what we’re supposed to get when we cast a ballot; and that if we don’t cast a ballot, it’s going to end up in a situation where we’re going to have to cast a bullet. It’s either a ballot or a bullet." - Malcolm X



Interesting, the vast majority of Dixiecrats switched to Republican after the signing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964...the same year that Malcolm X made those quotes.
 

Fisher

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Malcolm X talked about Democrats....

"...What is a Dixiecrat? A Democrat. A Dixiecrat is nothing but a Democrat in disguise. [...] The Dixiecrats in Washington, D.C., control the key committees that run the government. The only reason the Dixiecrats control these committees is because they have seniority. The only reason they have seniority is because they come from states where Negroes can’t vote. This is not even a government that’s based on democracy. It is not a government that is made up of representatives of the people. Half of the people in the South can’t even vote. Eastland is not even supposed to be in Washington. Half of the senators and congressmen who occupy these key positions in Washington, D.C., are there illegally, are there unconstitutionally...."

"A vote for a Democrat is a vote for a Dixiecrat. That’s why, in 1964, it’s time now for you and me to become more politically mature and realize what the ballot is for; what we’re supposed to get when we cast a ballot; and that if we don’t cast a ballot, it’s going to end up in a situation where we’re going to have to cast a bullet. It’s either a ballot or a bullet." - Malcolm X



Interesting, the vast majority of Dixiecrats switched to Republican after the signing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964...the same year that Malcolm X made those quotes.
Strange that all the democrats became republicans. That must be where the phrase 'Reagan Democrats" came from
 

Moot

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1. He was such a good speaker.

2. Your argument is just as overly simplistic as the pro-gun arguments I suspect you are addressing. Maybe that's the point? I don't know. But standing alone, your argument doesn't work if only because you haven't provided any proof that the black population actually armed themselves in great numbers after that speech. I doubt they did.
You're right I didn't provide any evidence....except Malcolm X calling all "Muslims to Arms" and anyone else who agreed with him. So after researching a bit it appears that the homicide rates for young black males sky rocketed during the six years after his speech.......


"...Homicide offense rates for black males aged 15-24 almost tripled during the six years, while victimization among the same group more than tripled. The dramatic increase in robbery killings appeared to be but one manifestation of a broader increase in young, group-related, gun homicides..."
Homicide in Chicago, 1965-1970

"...Absolute numbers of black homicides, as well as black offender and victim rates and the percentages of all homicides involving black offenders or victims, declined somewhat from their highs in 1974 through 1977. These figures achieved a relative stability by 1980, but their levels remained higher than the comparable figures from the 1950s and 1960s. Black female involvement has declined, and the use of firearms in black homicides has increased substantially over comparable levels from the 1950s. The average age of offenders and victims is substantially lower, although the involvement of black juveniles in homicide appears to have declined somewhat. The suggestion is made that increased firearm use may be a key factor in the changing patterns of black homicide.
Black Homicides in Baltimore 1974-1986: Age, Gender, and Weapon Use Changes

I don't think anyone here on DP can claim to be an expert or has exclusivity over discussing Malcolm X or his views on guns. The field looks wide open to me.

Yes, he was a good speaker and charismatic and handsome, too. He's the spitting image of Denzal Washington, don't you think?
 

Moot

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Strange that all the democrats became republicans. That must be where the phrase 'Reagan Democrats" came from
Yes, Reagan Democrats were the New Conservatives....aka Neo-cons. Nobody calls them democrats, anymore.
 

Master PO

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Interesting, the vast majority of Dixiecrats switched to Republican after the signing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964...the same year that Malcolm X made those quotes.
interesting becuase i was told by democrats they switched before 1964..in the 40's and 50's
 

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And so they armed themselves....and now they have the highest demographic murder rate....along with the same problems and inequalities that plagued them before they armed themselves.
And there also happens to be tens of millions of responsible gun owners who aren't radicalized extremists fueled by hatred for people who are the "wrong color".
 

Mr. Invisible

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I think it's a good example of what happens when a demographic arm themselves to right an injustice and end up shooting themselves in the foot...so to speak. Of course they have a right to arm themselves, but it hasn't made their lives any safer or better.

If anyone was insinuating that the second amendment didn't apply to them, it was Malcolm X saying whites didn't consider blacks US citizens.

The Ballot or the Bullet....
Malcolm X - Wikiquote
If you would, I don't know, read a little history, you would realize that in many ways blacks were not US citizens. They didn't have the right to vote and were subject to extreme direct racism on a regular, daily basis.
 

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Does this statement from you insinuate that you don't think the Second Amendment should apply to "them"? Just asking . . . Just want to be sure I understand what your comment means . . .
:mrgreen: Good question! The answer, Yes it does apply to them! Why not? responsible Black folks have a right to own a firearm to defend themselves. The high rate of killing in black neighborhoods is not because of guns! It's because of ignorant black thugs. You still look like Abbey in NCIS.
 

Aunt Spiker

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No. You are confusing arming a law abiding citizen to an armed gang banging thug. It is actually very hard for someone who is poor to get a gun to defend themselves. Between the cost of the weapon itself and all the little extra's vs gas for your car or food... Well the choice is clear.

You are not only misrepresenting his message, you are turning it into something it was never meant to be.

Nice job.
Hmm - obviously it's not. What? Those armed gang banging thugs are rich? Only the wealthy can afford to purchase firearms legally?

It's a matter of misplaced priorities. They might have to choose - and they chose the weapon. Legally gained or not - it's still money. . . and they're still poor.

How they use it - and go about obtaining it - is what makes the difference.
 

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interesting becuase i was told by democrats they switched before 1964..in the 40's and 50's
Yes, there were some Democrats that probably switched because of FDR but most of them are now either collecting social security and medicare..or deceased.
 

Moot

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No. You are confusing arming a law abiding citizen to an armed gang banging thug. It is actually very hard for someone who is poor to get a gun to defend themselves. Between the cost of the weapon itself and all the little extra's vs gas for your car or food... Well the choice is clear.

You are not only misrepresenting his message, you are turning it into something it was never meant to be.

Nice job.
What was his message meant to be, BM?

Malcolm X says guns were real cheap..... a lot cheaper than paying taxes for government protection they aren't getting. He seems confused though, because he also wants guns for self defense from the government.....gee, that sounds familiar....


"...Last but not least, I must say this concerning the great controversy over rifles and shotguns. The only thing that I’ve ever said is that in areas where the government has proven itself either unwilling or unable to defend the lives and the property of Negroes, it’s time for Negroes to defend themselves. Article number two of the constitutional amendments provides you and me the right to own a rifle or a shotgun. It is constitutionally legal to own a shotgun or a rifle. This doesn’t mean you’re going to get a rifle and form battalions and go out looking for white folks, although you’d be within your rights—I mean, you’d be justified; but that would be illegal and we don’t do anything illegal. If the white man doesn’t want the black man buying rifles and shotguns, then let the government do its job. [...] If he’s not going to do his job in running the government and providing you and me with the protection that our taxes are supposed to be for, since he spends all those billions for his defense budget, he certainly can’t begrudge you and me spending $12 or $15 for a single-shot, or double-action. I hope you understand. Don’t go out shooting people, but any time—brothers and sisters, and especially the men in this audience; some of you wearing Congressional Medals of Honor, with shoulders this wide, chests this big, muscles that big—any time you and I sit around and read where they bomb a church and murder in cold blood, not some grownups, but four little girls while they were praying to the same God the white man taught them to pray to, and you and I see the government go down and can’t find who did it...."


Here is Malcolm X talks about the throwing of molotov cocktails and how the negro had never done that before.....

And now you’re facing a situation where the young Negro’s coming up. They don’t want to hear that “turn the-other-cheek” stuff, no. In Jacksonville, those were teenagers, they were throwing Molotov cocktails. Negroes have never done that before. But it shows you there’s a new deal coming in. There’s new thinking coming in. There’s new strategy coming in. It’ll be Molotov cocktails this month, hand grenades next month, and something else next month. It’ll be ballots, or it’ll be bullets. It’ll be liberty, or it will be death. The only difference about this kind of death—it’ll be reciprocal.


It's almost like you can pin point where the blacks started arming themselves. But over the years they didn't use those guns on the white man or the government...instead they used them to kill each other.
 

Moot

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Even by your usual standard Moot, this is an extremely piss poor argument that deserves all the ridicule it will get.
I'm sorry you feel that way, Jet. But in lieu of all the recent talk about race and guns why is discussing Malcolm X's "the ballot or the bullet" a piss poor arguement? Imo, it seems like a very valid arguement and I'm enjoying reading what X had to say. He was a very angry man and perhaps even justifiably so. It does seem that blacks overwhelmingly took the path that Malcolm X laid out instead of MLK's non violent approach.
 

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What was his message meant to be, BM?

Malcolm X says guns were real cheap..... a lot cheaper than paying taxes for government protection they aren't getting. He seems confused though, because he also wants guns for self defense from the government.....gee, that sounds familiar....


"...Last but not least, I must say this concerning the great controversy over rifles and shotguns. The only thing that I’ve ever said is that in areas where the government has proven itself either unwilling or unable to defend the lives and the property of Negroes, it’s time for Negroes to defend themselves. Article number two of the constitutional amendments provides you and me the right to own a rifle or a shotgun. It is constitutionally legal to own a shotgun or a rifle. This doesn’t mean you’re going to get a rifle and form battalions and go out looking for white folks, although you’d be within your rights—I mean, you’d be justified; but that would be illegal and we don’t do anything illegal. If the white man doesn’t want the black man buying rifles and shotguns, then let the government do its job. [...] If he’s not going to do his job in running the government and providing you and me with the protection that our taxes are supposed to be for, since he spends all those billions for his defense budget, he certainly can’t begrudge you and me spending $12 or $15 for a single-shot, or double-action. I hope you understand. Don’t go out shooting people, but any time—brothers and sisters, and especially the men in this audience; some of you wearing Congressional Medals of Honor, with shoulders this wide, chests this big, muscles that big—any time you and I sit around and read where they bomb a church and murder in cold blood, not some grownups, but four little girls while they were praying to the same God the white man taught them to pray to, and you and I see the government go down and can’t find who did it...."


Here is Malcolm X talks about the throwing of molotov cocktails and how the negro had never done that before.....

And now you’re facing a situation where the young Negro’s coming up. They don’t want to hear that “turn the-other-cheek” stuff, no. In Jacksonville, those were teenagers, they were throwing Molotov cocktails. Negroes have never done that before. But it shows you there’s a new deal coming in. There’s new thinking coming in. There’s new strategy coming in. It’ll be Molotov cocktails this month, hand grenades next month, and something else next month. It’ll be ballots, or it’ll be bullets. It’ll be liberty, or it will be death. The only difference about this kind of death—it’ll be reciprocal.


It's almost like you can pin point where the blacks started arming themselves. But over the years they didn't use those guns on the white man or the government...instead they used them to kill each other.
This is such utter nonsense. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I am not even going to respond to that kind of ignorance, wow.
 

Moot

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This is such utter nonsense. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I am not even going to respond to that kind of ignorance, wow.
At this point, all you've managed to show is your own ignorance on the subject.


No. You are confusing arming a law abiding citizen to an armed gang banging thug.
Interesting that you would call every black who owns a gun "an armed gang banging thug" and those without a gun as law abiding citizens who can get them.

It is actually very hard for someone who is poor to get a gun to defend themselves. Between the cost of the weapon itself and all the little extra's vs gas for your car or food... Well the choice is clear.
I seriously doubt many poor blacks could afford to buy a car, insurance and gas and instead would likely use public transportation. Guns are a lot cheaper to buy than cars....and I don't think they care about "all the little extras", like you do. They actually use their guns as weapons, instead of toys.
 

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Malcolm X was also the one who said they should start shooting cops during the Civil Rights Era. . . He's no better than any tyrant.

At this point, all you've managed to show is your own ignorance on the subject.




Interesting that you would call every black who owns a gun "an armed gang banging thug" and those without a gun as law abiding citizens who can get them.

I seriously doubt many poor blacks could afford to buy a car, insurance and gas and instead would likely use public transportation. Guns are a lot cheaper to buy than cars....and I don't think they care about "all the little extras", like you do. They actually use their guns as weapons, instead of toys.
 

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It does seem that blacks overwhelmingly took the path that Malcolm X laid out instead of MLK's non violent approach.
Which should tell you something about the race, but I am sure the fear and guilt of "racism" precludes your acceptance of reality.
 
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