Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". [W:111]

[OceanBlues1]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Abby is an American hero for busting the abortion mill.

As I said previously, you can call her a "hero" all you want, it makes no difference. She's no hero to me, nor is she remotely credible, on anything.

 

[cabse5]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

Totally agree with the above. Also, I'm not interested in what far-right Republican Trump supporters have to say, including this guy Holtz.

Side note: SCOTUS seems to agree with you. The jury is still out if SCOTUS thinks an abortion is a right. The chief justice of the Supreme Court thinks abortion is a right, that there cannot be limitations to abortions due to certain circumstances, IMO.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Poor peformance = "Not scoring enough abortions to meet the quota". Abby is an American hero for busting the abortion mill.

Wrong. There is evidence she was chatting with a friend of hers at a different PP about others, violating company policy and that she was about to be fired. She had nothing whatsoever to do with "scoring enough abortions". She was a paper pusher.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Poor peformance = "Not scoring enough abortions to meet the quota". Abby is an American hero for busting the abortion mill.

That accusation was investigated and found to be another Abby Lie. PP has not quota to meet. There was in increase in abortions the year Abby left PP ahead of firing but it was the result of introduction of the abortion pill at the request of patients. It was firmly established that PP has no policy to increase the number of abortions at any clinic.

That you aren't concerned that your hero is a confirmed liar is really shocking in someone that purports to hold very high moral standards.

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Calling - Sanger, she was an atheist leftist racist - OK then. What is your explanation for the absolute failure by various states - TX & others, mostly in the South, mostly (I think) in the Bible belt - to replicate PP services (not abortion, though) to the same population that PP serves? Take your time, I'll wait.

Abortion in the US under Roe doesn't kill babies. & most abortions under Roe are very early in the pregnancy - the fetus is tiny, the medical procedure is relatively safe (compared to pregnancy to full term) for the woman.

Sanger, she was an atheist leftist racist - I don't remember reading about Sanger's religion. She was Irish, & that usually meant Roman Catholic in that time & place. But her father was a freethinker, I think the term was. & the state of her soul is beyond our reach anyway. She may have been an atheist, I don't recall reading about that aspect of her life.

She was Leftist to the extent that she thought women & families should determine for themselves how many children they wanted to have.

I don't think she was racist. She appeared on stage @ fundraisers & speeches & talks with eugenicists, but that wasn't her interest. She did think that people who could afford to have more children & raise them properly should be encouraged to have more children, but she didn't press for the state to have the power to coerce couples having more children.

& she was against abortion.

In the 1920s, illegal but medically professional, abortions and diaphragms were available to wealthy women. Sanger's crusade was focused on poor women who didn't have access even to information about either. In one of her books Sanger prints some of the letters to her from women begging for information on birth control. Most of them tell of how medical professionals refused to give them information on birth control, even when the next pregnancy meant death.. Some even laughed at them, told them to send their husbands away.

Poor women did get abortions occasionally but they were not performed by doctors and the results were usually disastrous. When safe abortions became more frequent because some states had legalized abortions Sanger realized that contraceptives alone were not enough and abortion needed to be part of preventing unwanted yearly pregnancy for poor women.

The racism that conservatives accuse Sanger of is based on a single letter in which part of one sentence is taken out of context and triumphantly presented as proof of racism. I can give you the details if you want.

 

[southwest88]

Re: Lock 'n' load

...

The racism that conservatives accuse Sanger of is based on a single letter in which part of one sentence is taken out of context and triumphantly presented as proof of racism. I can give you the details if you want.

Yep, thanks. I've known of that deliberate out of context quote for years now. But it's worth explaining for any newer members of the debate who haven't read that themselves. The Prolife faction never seems to tire of dragging out that tired old dog of an argument. That dog won't hunt, to quote a phrase ...

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Calling - Sanger, she was an atheist leftist racist - OK then. What is your explanation for the absolute failure by various states - TX & others, mostly in the South, mostly (I think) in the Bible belt - to replicate PP services (not abortion, though) to the same population that PP serves? Take your time, I'll wait.

Abortion in the US under Roe doesn't kill babies. & most abortions under Roe are very early in the pregnancy - the fetus is tiny, the medical procedure is relatively safe (compared to pregnancy to full term) for the woman.

Sanger, she was an atheist leftist racist - I don't remember reading about Sanger's religion. She was Irish, & that usually meant Roman Catholic in that time & place. But her father was a freethinker, I think the term was. & the state of her soul is beyond our reach anyway. She may have been an atheist, I don't recall reading about that aspect of her life.

She was Leftist to the extent that she thought women & families should determine for themselves how many children they wanted to have.

I don't think she was racist. She appeared on stage @ fundraisers & speeches & talks with eugenicists, but that wasn't her interest. She did think that people who could afford to have more children & raise them properly should be encouraged to have more children, but she didn't press for the state to have the power to coerce couples having more children.

& she was against abortion.

Nothing out of context about this:

In promoting birth control, she advanced a controversial "Negro Project," wrote in her autobiography about speaking to a Ku Klux Klan group and advocated for a eugenics approach to breeding for “the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks — those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization.”

Sanger was an atheist racist. Period.

 

[southwest88]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Nothing out of context about this:

In promoting birth control, she advanced a controversial "Negro Project," wrote in her autobiography about speaking to a Ku Klux Klan group and advocated for a eugenics approach to breeding for “the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks — those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization.”

Sanger was an atheist racist. Period.

Yeah, yeah, I get it: For you, all evil has to be atheist, & so you always sprinkle some of the stuff on whatever evil du jour you're denouncing. Was Sanger atheist? Could she have been agnostic? Do you distinguish between the two positions? I don't recall - I've read summaries & a biography on her, but the question of her personal faith didn't come up, or it didn't make any impression on me.

In any event, looking @ the quote you posted above: I don't see any reference to race @ all there. Sanger was opposed to abortion. & she thought that families that could afford to have more children & raise them properly, should be encouraged to have more children.

But she was against forced sterilization, she deplored the Nazi eugenics effort (if that's what it was - it seemed more like a lunatic fringe overtaken by delusions of grandeur to me - but maybe that's just me). She thought that people with congenital diseases or detrimental conditions in their offspring should be discouraged from reproducing. But she never advocated surgical solutions to those suggestions, TMK. & it wasn't based on race that she was declaring differential reproduction to be desirable. She wanted those choices made on an individual basis, not on the basis of race (or economic class, or whatever other comforting shibboleth came to hand).

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lock 'n' load

In any event, looking @ the quote you posted above: I don't see any reference to race @ all there.

"Negro Project"? Are you fricking serious?

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lock 'n' load

"Negro Project"? Are you fricking serious?

And because the word negro is used that means it is racist? Come on even you aren't that dumb. And yes Ms Sanger called the project to bring birth control clinics to Black communities in the South "the Negro Project". Negro was the term used for Blacks. This effort was done in conjunction with Black pastors. Here's the entire letter to a supporter of her project, from which religious conservatives extract a sentence phrase and use to label Ms Sanger a racist.

“Dear Dr. Gamble,

(Three paragraphs about his health, recent contributions, organizational matters)

“There is only one thing that I would like to be in touch with and that is the Negro Project of the South which, if the execution of the details remain in Miss Rose's hands, my suggestions will not be confusing because she knows the way my mind works

Miss Rose sent me a copy of your letter of December 5th and I note that you doubt it worthwhile to employ a full time Negro physician. It seems to me from my experience where I have been in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table which means their ignorance, superstitions and doubts. They do not do this with the white people and if we can train the Negro doctor at the Clinic he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results among the colored people. His work in my opinion should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County's white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us

The ministers work is also important and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members

(Three paragraphs about the competence of Miss Rose, Dr. Gamble’s and Mrs. Timme’s health, and regards to wife)

Sincerely yours
MS/mh Margaret Sanger”


Only someone interested smearing Sanger would use the bold piece of sentence to mean she was exterminating Blacks and only someone very stupid would believe that was what she was doing.

 

[D_NATURED]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

Always repeating druggie George Carlin's monologue. It as silly and incorrect as it was in 1996 when he delivered it.

You repeat wino Jesus' words, don't you? And he wasn't funny at all and, frankly, didn't exist except as a political tool for ancient dictators.

I'll take George any day.

 

[southwest88]

Re: Lock 'n' load

"Negro Project"? Are you fricking serious?

Fricking-A, deadly. It was a different time & place.

In fact, from everything I've read, Ms. Sanger's racial attitudes were positively benevolent & far ahead of her time, compared to what was current in US popular culture @ the time.

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lock 'n' load

In promoting birth control, she advanced a controversial "Negro Project," wrote in her autobiography about speaking to a Ku Klux Klan group and advocated for a eugenics approach to breeding for “the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks — those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization.”

Sanger was an atheist racist. Period.

The Negro Project starting in 1939 had nothing to do with her speaking to the KKK women. She does not connect the two in her autobiography.

The female auxiliary of the KKK in Silver Lake, New Jersey invited Ms Sanger to speak to them about birth control in 1929. In her autobiography she wrote about it openly stating that she was willing to speak to any interested group:

“Always to me any aroused group was a good group, and therefore I accepted an invitation to talk to the women’s branch of the Ku Klux Klan at Silver Lake, New Jersey, one of the weirdest experiences I had in lecturing.” "Never before had I looked into a sea of faces like these. I was sure that if I uttered one word, such as abortion, outside the usual vocabulary of these women they would go off into hysteria. And so my address that night had to be in the most elementary terms, as though I were trying to make children understand,” Sanger writes.

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

You repeat wino Jesus' words, don't you? And he wasn't funny at all and, frankly, didn't exist except as a political tool for ancient dictators.

I'll take George any day.

Hah. Carlin was an alcoholic drug addict in and out of rehab multiple times. And you want him as your life coach?

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Fricking-A, deadly. It was a different time & place.

In fact, from everything I've read, Ms. Sanger's racial attitudes were positively benevolent & far ahead of her time, compared to what was current in US popular culture @ the time.

Yes. Very benevolent to want to eradicate the black race. Do you people ever listen to yourselves?

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Nothing out of context about this:

In promoting birth control, she advanced a controversial "Negro Project," wrote in her autobiography about speaking to a Ku Klux Klan group and advocated for a eugenics approach to breeding for “the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks — those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization.”Sanger was an atheist racist. Period.

The 1924 human weed comment was not made about Blacks in the 1938 Negro Project Here is the comment as it was aired:

"If plants, and live stock as well, require space and air, sunlight and love, children need them even more. The only real wealth of our country lies in the men and women of the next generation. A farmer would rather produce a thousand thoroughbreds than a million runts.
How are we to breed a race of human thoroughbreds unless we follow the same plan? We must make this country into a garden of children instead of a disorderly back lot overrun with human weeds.
In a home where there are too many children in proportion to the living space, the air and sunlight, the children are usually overcrowded and underfed. They are a constant burden on their mother's overtaxed strength and the father's earning capacity. Such homes cannot be gardens in any sense of the word."
Radio WFAB Syracuse, 1924-02-29

The 1920s 30s were hard times for the poor. With decreased numbers of farms, workers moved to the cities. Lower passenger rates of bigger steam ships increased the number of poor immigrants and city slums grew exponentially. Unemployment was high in this poor class and heavy drinking was common. Even today there is little recognition of the connection between heavy male drinking and defective children. In Sanger's era even the connection between pregnant women and alcohol abuse was not well known. The numbers of defective children increased alarmingly due to the combination of women debilitated by yearly pregnancy, alcoholism and poverty. When Sanger speaks of weeds she is speaking of this generation of children whose health and mental ability were such that sustained work was not possible let alone contributing to society in some meaningful way.

Sanger did not mearly want debilitating serial pregnancy stopped she wanted loving, healthy families in which active intelligent children could grow to a responsible adulthood.

Christian conservatives can keep painting an evil picture of Sanger for their constituents if it makes them feel less like hypocrites, but most aware, intelligent readers know Sanger as a promoter of healthy pregnancies, healthy women , healthy children and a healthy society.

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Yes. Very benevolent to want to eradicate the black race. Do you people ever listen to yourselves?

I'm curious. What advantage is it to you to be ignorant?

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

Hah. Carlin was an alcoholic drug addict in and out of rehab multiple times. And you want him as your life coach?

You never have proven that allegation.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

Side note: SCOTUS seems to agree with you. The jury is still out if SCOTUS thinks an abortion is a right. The chief justice of the Supreme Court thinks abortion is a right, that there cannot be limitations to abortions due to certain circumstances, IMO.

A woman has a right to abortion unless there is a decision that there's not. Just like people have a right to consensual sex and a right to have kids. Those are also protected but not named (enumerated)

It's protected by the 9th Amendment.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[southwest88]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Quote Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
Fricking-A, deadly. It was a different time & place.

In fact, from everything I've read, Ms. Sanger's racial attitudes were positively benevolent & far ahead of her time, compared to what was current in US popular culture @ the time.

end quote/

Yes. Very benevolent to want to eradicate the black race. Do you people ever listen to yourselves?

Yah. When did Sanger say that she wanted to eliminate Blacks from the US? Or from the World, if you prefer? She never talked nor wrote about encouraging or discouraging procreation on the basis of race nor any other mass noun - she wanted those decisions made on an individual basis. & as far as I know, she didn't trust government to make those kinds of decisions for individuals. She wanted to empower individuals (families & women) to make their own decisions on how many children & how to space the births out over time as those individuals wanted.

I'll remind you that Sanger was of Irish descent herself. & the Irish @ that point in time & in the US NE were not welcomed with open arms. Quite the opposite. So why would she model eugenic behavior - in terms of eliminating a minority ethnic or racial group - when that same behavior could be easily turned back upon her own ethnic group? She saw much further than that, into the future of the US that she wanted for individuals & families - loved & welcomed babies; not families straining to feed & clothe, educate & start out too many children, born too closely together.

No, Sanger didn't tolerate racial prejudice among her staff. When she or staff worked with Black doctors, nurses, patients, the board - for instance, @ the Harlem clinic in the Black neighborhood - she insisted that staff treat everyone respectfully, just as she expected them to treat everyone @ any PP clinic.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Yes. Very benevolent to want to eradicate the black race. Do you people ever listen to yourselves?

Previously posted:

Not this again :roll:

Blaming Margaret Sanger's views on racism/eugenics for *today's* PP organization is like blaming the FF's like Jefferson, who kept slaves, for how we interpret the Constitution *today*. Society evolves and moves on and institutions do so as well.

If you want to throw out PP because of Sanger's views, shall we throw out the Constitution as well because of slave-owning founders? :doh​

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Previously posted:

Not this again :roll:

Blaming Margaret Sanger's views on racism/eugenics for *today's* PP organization is like blaming the FF's like Jefferson, who kept slaves, for how we interpret the Constitution *today*. Society evolves and moves on and institutions do so as well.

If you want to throw out PP because of Sanger's views, shall we throw out the Constitution as well because of slave-owning founders? :doh​

That's exactly what you leftwingers are doing. Tearing down statues of perceived racists from more than a century ago.

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lock 'n' load

That's exactly what you leftwingers are doing. Tearing down statues of perceived racists from more than a century ago.

Most were not perceived racists. They were racists. The statues were mostly put up in the early part of the century when there was a resurgence of racism. The purpose of the statues to loom over the observer and show that even though the war was lost and Blacks were free they were not equal and not respected. For gods sake read some history.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Lock 'n' load

Previously posted:

Not this again :roll:

Blaming Margaret Sanger's views on racism/eugenics for *today's* PP organization is like blaming the FF's like Jefferson, who kept slaves, for how we interpret the Constitution *today*. Society evolves and moves on and institutions do so as well.

If you want to throw out PP because of Sanger's views, shall we throw out the Constitution as well because of slave-owning founders? :doh​

That's exactly what you leftwingers are doing. Tearing down statues of perceived racists from more than a century ago.

Couldnt answer the question eh? LOLOLOL

What's new? I guess you choose to live with the hypocrisy.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[D_NATURED]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On



Hah. Carlin was an alcoholic drug addict in and out of rehab multiple times. And you want him as your life coach?

No, he's a dead comedian. He was never a life coach. It seems like you want to make him into a villain, though, for getting high, yet, no doubt the words of that fat pedophile, drug addict, Rush Limbaugh, have certainly made your panties moist. I call that selective outrage.