Like it or not you are a Christian

[sawyerloggingon]

Before Rome accepted Christianity people were killed for amusement, gladiators, war captives thrown into clutches of lions etc. I have even read of dinner theater that was a woman being raped and murdered for real. Fun huh? Christianity is what ended this behavior, before Christianity there was no right or wrong no good or evil just what law allowed or didn’t allow. I think that nowadays like it or not Christian values are what and who we are so in essence we are all Christians, yes even atheist.

 

[tessaesque]

Rome was not the only civilization that existed prior to Christianity, Pagan societies had a "moral code", Christianity isn't even close to the oldest religion (and therefore wouldn't be the origin of morality), and religion isn't necessary to fabricate morals.

 

[Cephus]

Oh look, delusion on display! Fun.

 

[Ockham]

Rome was not the only civilization that existed prior to Christianity, Pagan societies had a "moral code", Christianity isn't even close to the oldest religion (and therefore wouldn't be the origin of morality), and religion isn't necessary to fabricate morals.

To fabricate - no. To organize, yes. Hence, the lack of a strong pagan presence world wide.

 

[tessaesque]

To fabricate - no. To organize, yes. Hence, the lack of a strong pagan presence world wide.

Pretty sure the lack of a strong pagan presence has more to do with them being killed off or drug kicking and screaming into Christianity on threat of death.

 

[Ockham]

Pretty sure the lack of a strong pagan presence has more to do with them being killed off or drug kicking and screaming into Christianity on threat of death.

Historically very true --- from the 300's AD to probably the early 19th century persecution occurred world wide. However, they've had a pretty fair shake for the past 200 years give or take with no real resurgence to speak of. One would think 200 years would be adequate to mount a bit of a resurgence and organize if it was going to do so.... but it hasn't.

 

[tessaesque]

Historically very true --- from the 300's AD to probably the early 19th century persecution occurred world wide. However, they've had a pretty fair shake for the past 200 years give or take with no real resurgence to speak of. One would think 200 years would be adequate to mount a bit of a resurgence and organize if it was going to do so.... but it hasn't.

I would imagine that part of a lack of resurgence would have to do with the practices and significant dates being "stolen" and "cheapened" by Christianity. The solstices and celebrations (and even symbolic sacrifice) were copied into Christianity during the Constantine deliberations, so it's almost as though the basis for the religion has been bastardized and taken over. Couple that with it being largely unpracticed for thousands of years and many traditions and beliefs being lost, and I can imagine it'd be pretty hard to reconstitute it in the modern day. That's probably the same reason we don't see a lot of primative religions anymore. Even within close-nit native american tribes, many of the ancient practices and beliefs have become little more than oral tradition.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Before Rome accepted Christianity people were killed for amusement, gladiators, war captives thrown into clutches of lions etc. I have even read of dinner theater that was a woman being raped and murdered for real. Fun huh? Christianity is what ended this behavior, before Christianity there was no right or wrong no good or evil just what law allowed or didn’t allow. I think that nowadays like it or not Christian values are what and who we are so in essence we are all Christians, yes even atheist.

Believe it or not - morality doesn't come from religion. And dig deeper into the beginnings of Christianity and you'll find underground rituals and animals sacrifices. Before you embrace what you believe maybe you should understand the evolution of those beliefs and how they began.

Constantine used this faith to conquer his political and cultural enemy - all used it up like a condom, the glass slipper of our generaton.

 

[Ockham]

I would imagine that part of a lack of resurgence would have to do with the practices and significant dates being "stolen" and "cheapened" by Christianity. The solstices and celebrations (and even symbolic sacrifice) were copied into Christianity during the Constantine deliberations, so it's almost as though the basis for the religion has been bastardized and taken over. Couple that with it being largely unpracticed for thousands of years and many traditions and beliefs being lost, and I can imagine it'd be pretty hard to reconstitute it in the modern day. That's probably the same reason we don't see a lot of primative religions anymore. Even within close-nit native american tribes, many of the ancient practices and beliefs have become little more than oral tradition.

There are probably many different explanations - and blaming Christianity certainly is valid. They tried and succeeded in implementing Christianity using missionaries and outreach for almost 2 thousand years. However, if a belief system is strong enough, a comeback is always possible. Paganism (back to my original point) just doesn't have the organization to do it. Morality can be constructed in numerous ways, but if it doesn't catch on and stick - there's a reason and probably many reasons. Wicca for example (not the pseudo-Harry Potter nonsense) has more in common with a naturalist "Gaia" central theme and less about magic. I would submit there are lots of remnants of paganistic society in many country's and where Christianity started and almost killed off paganism, technology is finishing it. Now science and naturalists are the last bastions. The bottom line is, Christianity and other world organized religions have just that - organization. Pagans tend to be isolated, small, and usually secretive.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Before Rome accepted Christianity people were killed for amusement, gladiators, war captives thrown into clutches of lions etc. I have even read of dinner theater that was a woman being raped and murdered for real. Fun huh? Christianity is what ended this behavior, before Christianity there was no right or wrong no good or evil just what law allowed or didn’t allow. I think that nowadays like it or not Christian values are what and who we are so in essence we are all Christians, yes even atheist.

Right, because Christianity never did anything like that *cough* Crusades, ongoing genocide in Africa, witch killing, too many wars to count, hate crimes in the US, etc etc etc *cough*.

And also, non-religious societies are just absolute hell-holes. You know, like most of Western Europe and the rest of the developed world, with their lower crime, better education, longer life expectancies... oh wait.

And they totally espouse the original Christian values, like selling women into domestic slavery, infanticide, discrimination against gays... damn, wrong again.

...Do you even read the crap you write?

 

[BayToBay]

Before Rome accepted Christianity people were killed for amusement, gladiators, war captives thrown into clutches of lions etc. I have even read of dinner theater that was a woman being raped and murdered for real. Fun huh? Christianity is what ended this behavior, before Christianity there was no right or wrong no good or evil just what law allowed or didn’t allow. I think that nowadays like it or not Christian values are what and who we are so in essence we are all Christians, yes even atheist.

Is that what Vegitales told you? They became too costly. The earliest and most strident opponents were pagans (stoics) and early christians were big fans. Violent games continued, the games of knights were quite deadly, and the church said little.

 

[StillBallin75]

Aside from the ****ty, deluded, black-and-white revisionist history that the OP tries to paint, what does anything have to do with "being a Christian, like it or not?"

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Aside from the ****ty, deluded, black-and-white revisionist history that the OP tries to paint, what does anything have to do with "being a Christian, like it or not?"

"Like it or not you are a christian" - I thought he was interjecting words onto the situation of the 'Barbaric Romans' as it might have happened back then.

The ultimate humor - and irony - is that their 'barbaric customs' is why they're on the map and one of the tourist mechas of the world. People flock by the hundreds of thousands every year to see those ancient monuments to barbarism, immorality and tyrany . . . so horrible - it's putting food on the table of the pious.

Another bit of irony is that the change over happened through a series of wars - kind of funny to claim that Christianity is without those 'barbaric acts like gladitorial combat' when the barbaric act of axe to sword battlefield bloodbathing is what brought the changes about to begin with.

 

[Ockham]

If there is one failed institution throughout the centuries, it was and in some ways still is, the Catholic Church. Reading the history of Rome, the Popes throughout the Dark Ages, Middle Ages and Renaissance is like reading a trashy novel trilogy.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

If there is one failed institution throughout the centuries, it was and in some ways still is, the Catholic Church. Reading the history of Rome, the Popes throughout the Dark Ages, Middle Ages and Renaissance is like reading a trashy novel trilogy.

Oh yeah - they desired power and control, not pious living and hairshirts.

Some were pure, but most weren't - power corrupts.

 

[StillBallin75]

If there is one failed institution throughout the centuries, it was and in some ways still is, the Catholic Church. Reading the history of Rome, the Popes throughout the Dark Ages, Middle Ages and Renaissance is like reading a trashy novel trilogy.

I don't think a trilogy is enough.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I don't think a trilogy is enough.

It's like Star Wars novels . . . they just keep going and going and going. . . and some of them conflict along the way making you go "what the ****in ****?"

 

[Simon W. Moon]

history books can be friendly. you don't have to be afraid of them

 

[Aunt Spiker]

How about that Adam and Eve begotting everyone? That's some sick twisted **** right there.

 

[Risky Thicket]

You need to diversify your reading out there in the woods, sawyer. It's fine with me if you want to believe that stuff. Go ahead on, but don't expect to be able to pose it here and not get cut off at the knees. Many people will disagree with you because what you assert cannot be proven.

 

[makkam]

Before Rome accepted Christianity people were killed for amusement, gladiators, war captives thrown into clutches of lions etc. I have even read of dinner theater that was a woman being raped and murdered for real. Fun huh? Christianity is what ended this behavior, before Christianity there was no right or wrong no good or evil just what law allowed or didn’t allow. I think that nowadays like it or not Christian values are what and who we are so in essence we are all Christians, yes even atheist.

I now see why learning history is important for me...

 

[toddwv]

Before Rome accepted Christianity people were killed for amusement, gladiators, war captives thrown into clutches of lions etc. I have even read of dinner theater that was a woman being raped and murdered for real. Fun huh? Christianity is what ended this behavior, before Christianity there was no right or wrong no good or evil just what law allowed or didn’t allow. I think that nowadays like it or not Christian values are what and who we are so in essence we are all Christians, yes even atheist.

"Christianity is what ended this behavior". Yeah, sure until the "Holy Inquisition" and the rise of Nazism in Germany.

The fact is that we are not all Christians, not even close. If we were, the US would function under a form of communalism that would make even hard-core Marxists blush.

When was the last time that you've bathed another man's feet?

Remember: You can't enter Heaven unless Jesus enters you so allow Jesus to come inside of you.

 

[StillBallin75]

Christians and Christian institutions are FAR from guiltless when it comes to committing acts of barbarism, 'tis true.

 

[Cephus]

Christians and Christian institutions are FAR from guiltless when it comes to committing acts of barbarism, 'tis true.

Come on, look at the Old Testament, God is portrayed as a pretty sick, sadistic bastard throughout. Of course, because it's God, he gets a pass on any of his bad behavior, in fact, many Christians simply declare that anything God does is automatically good, just because God does it.

The lack of critical evaluation of some people is just sad.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Of course, because it's God, he gets a pass on any of his bad behavior, in fact, many Christians simply declare that anything God does is automatically good, just because God does it.

It's good to be the god