king obama decides illeagals can stay put

[Hypersonic]

It is a tactic. It's a way to excuse Obama...because Bush did it. Nothing more. If Bush did this sort of thing, it doesn't make it right, you know. But you know what Bush and conservatives never did? They never tried to excuse any of Bush's actions..."because Democrats did it". That tactic is all liberal...and it doesn't work.

I suggest you read the thread...see what has already been used by your ilk...find something new. Otherwise you are just repeating yourself.

Obama National Security Policies Resemble Bush's

See reference:Obama National Security Policies Resemble Bush's

Obama Administration Continues Bush's Unconstitutional Policies

"The Verizon order was issued under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which requires that any records collected "are relevant to an investigation" of a foreign terrorist or other foreign power. Certainly the call activity of every Verizon customer cannot be relevant to such investigations. Instead, an agency explicitly mandated not to direct its surveillance domestically is collecting massive amounts of information about U.S. citizens, regardless of whether that information is relevant to national security.

Given the breadth of the Verizon order, other telecoms surely received similar requests. On its face, this seems to be another instance of the Obama administration continuing the unconstitutional policies of the Bush administration. Tellingly, this order may well be a renewal of orders first obtained under President Bush."

See Reference:Obama Administration Continues Bush's Unconstitutional Policies | Debate Club | US News Opinion

TOP 10 BUSH TERROR POLICIES CONTINUED BY OBAMA

1. Special Forces funded: Since 9/11, funding for U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) has tripled, even as its overseas deployments quadrupled.

2. Military tribunals

3. Iraq not abandoned: Obama won the presidency with the help of the anti-war Left by promising a quick end to the Iraq War. He has stayed the course long enough for the country to stabilize following the Bush surge, which Obama opposed. Now, with the Middle East pushing out longtime rulers, the new leaders can choose from two models: a democratic Iraq or a demonic Iran .

4. Gitmo still open: Obama’s first act as President was signing an executive order to close the facility holding terrorist detainees at Guantanamo Bay within a year. More than two years later, he has finally concluded that there is nowhere else to house such murderous jihadists.

5. Renditions continued: Obama has continued a version of the Bush practice of renditions. No wonder. It was in a secret prison in Eastern Europe where a waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed gave intelligence to the CIA helping to identify Osama bin Laden’s couriers, one of whom led U.S. Special Forces to his doorstep.

6. Afghanistan surge: Obama foolishly set a date for troop withdrawal in Afghanistan, but he partially accepted his general’s recommendation for more military personnel for the battle. Under Obama, the number of troops in Afghanistan has doubled since Bush left office. Let’s hope the Commander-in-Chief ignores his own deadline and lets the military do its job.

7. Indefinite detention: Even while Obama and Holder wrung their hands over how to bring terrorists to justice, ultimately they came to the same conclusion that Bush reached: There are some detainees who are so dangerous that they can never be released. At one point, Holder even went so far as to say that he would try hard-core Gitmo detainees in criminal courts, but if an acquittal was reached, he would still keep them imprisoned.

8. Surveillance maintained: The Left went crazy over Bush’s so-called assault on civil liberties when the Patriot Act allowed the surveillance of calls from suspected terrorists coming from overseas and permitted the FBI to obtain certain phone records without warrants. Obama’s Justice Department has given legal authority for the continuation of the policy, with the anti-war crowd voicing only muted concern.

9. Record number of drones: Obama has greatly increased the number of unmanned drones used in Afghanistan, an effective weapon against the enemy in rough terrain. One abhors the persistent civilian casualties, but it also greatly reduces U.S. troop deaths.

10. Killing terrorists: Bush said, “Bring ’em on,” when al-Qaeda flocked to Iraq, and he sent intelligence agents and Special Forces around the world to aggressively track down terrorists. American warriors have continued the long battle with continued success during the Obama administration.

See Reference:Top 10 Bush Terror Policies Continued by Obama | Human Events

Obama and Bush Both Created Huge Budget Deficits

"Both Presidents ran up record-setting budget deficits. Obama's FY 2012 Budget proposed a $1.07 trillion deficit, even though the recession was over. The FY 2011 Budget deficit was $1.3 trillion, but was delayed by the Republican House until a mere $38 billion was trimmed in March 2011. Obama's first budget in FY 2010 ran the highest deficit ever -- $1.6 trillion.
President Bush's last budget, for FY 2009, started out with a $500 billion deficit. However, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson's TARP plan was added to it. After Obama was elected, he also added part of the Economic Stimulus Plan. Although it was to be spent over ten years, the bulk was budgeted for the first three fiscal years: $185 billion in FY 2009, $400 billion in FY 2010 and $135 billion in FY 2011.

The Bush FY 2008 Budget was the last budget untouched by recession fighting. Even so, it ran a (then shockingly high) $500 billion deficit to fund the War on Terror. This was after borrowing $678 billion from the Social Security Trust Fund. That type of raiding is standard operating procedure, since the Federal government can borrow from itself at will."

See Reference: Comparison of Obama and Bush Economic Policies

But I guess you'll skim past my evidence...

Oh I'm sure you'll bring up his Healthcare policy right but hell, even Barbara Bush supportd "Obamacare"

Barbara Bush Endorses Obama Healthcare Plan

See Reference: Barbara Bush Endorses Obama Healthcare Plan - Robert Schlesinger (usnews.com)

I never excuse Obama for anything. I'm Liberal and a progressive so I understand that Obama is nothing difference than what I'm used to. Obama is a politician and like all politicians many sell consumers of dreams and change as if what they'll present is something their predecessor never did. In 2008 I liked Obama because he was younger and a new face and like many college students naive to think he would be different than Bush. I was wrong. As you can see in the above Obama is George Bush 2.0. there is nothing significantly different Obama did in his first term that Bush didn't do in both terms.

 

[head of joaquin]

LOL!! I'm not ignoring history. I'm just not allowing the "Bush did it, too" tactic to excuse Obama...because it doesn't.

If your neighbor beats his wife, does that make it ok if you beat your wife? Are you doing something acceptable?

By your thinking, it is okay. Thats seems to me to be a morally and ethically bankrupt attitude. But then liberals and progressives have the market cornered on being morally and ethically bankrupt...since this sort of thing is okay with them.

Yeah, history started yesterday. Let's pretend that Bush's policies have no impact on the present and that Obama can just ignore them. Like, let's pretend Bush didn't leave us two vanity wars. Let's pretend.

It's what conservatives do best.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

LOL!! I'm not ignoring history. I'm just not allowing the "Bush did it, too" tactic to excuse Obama...because it doesn't.

If your neighbor beats his wife, does that make it ok if you beat your wife? Are you doing something acceptable?

That's a rather poor analogy since beating the wife is illegal; whereas neither Bush nor Obama has done anything illegal in terms of executive orders. A better example is the nonsense about Obama playing golf. Bush was an avid bike rider and jogger. Between the two, he spent countless hours exercising. Of course, the right had no complaints about that. I don't recall the left complaining either. Yet now the right whines incessantly about Obama playing golf. They detail how many times he's played to how many hours he's been on a course.

Pointing out "Bush did it, too" isn't an excuse -- it's shining a spotlight on righties' hypocrisies.

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah, history started yesterday. Let's pretend that Bush's policies have no impact on the present and that Obama can just ignore them. Like, let's pretend Bush didn't leave us two vanity wars. Let's pretend.

It's what conservatives do best.

Oh...now you are changing your story, eh? It's not okay that Obama does this stuff...because Bush did it too. Now, it's all Bush's fault

Jeeezuz!! Don't you hold Obama responsible for ANYTHING he's done?

LOL!!

 

[Mycroft]

<snipped the irrelevant smoke screen>

I never excuse Obama for anything. I'm Liberal and a progressive so I understand that Obama is nothing difference than what I'm used to. Obama is a politician and like all politicians many sell consumers of dreams and change as if what they'll present is something their predecessor never did. In 2008 I liked Obama because he was younger and a new face and like many college students naive to think he would be different than Bush. I was wrong. As you can see in the above Obama is George Bush 2.0. there is nothing significantly different Obama did in his first term that Bush didn't do in both terms.

Dude...I don't care if you like Obama or not. As long as you won't hold him responsible for his own actions, you are attempting to cover for him.

I say you are wrong to do so and all of your blather about Bush means nothing.

 

[Mycroft]

That's a rather poor analogy since beating the wife is illegal; whereas neither Bush nor Obama has done anything illegal in terms of executive orders. A better example is the nonsense about Obama playing golf. Bush was an avid bike rider and jogger. Between the two, he spent countless hours exercising. Of course, the right had no complaints about that. I don't recall the left complaining either. Yet now the right whines incessantly about Obama playing golf. They detail how many times he's played to how many hours he's been on a course.

Pointing out "Bush did it, too" isn't an excuse -- it's shining a spotlight on righties' hypocrisies.

I don't care about his golf games. That is as irrelevant as excusing Obama for his actions, "because Bush did it, too".

And, if there were a jury, it's still out whether Obama is complying with the law with his actions or not. He's, at the very least, arguably thumbed his nose at his Oath of Office, the law and the Constitution many times since he was first elected.

And that...is what this thread is all about. Whether he has taken the law into his own hands or not.

I suggest you support his actions if you think he did the right thing and keep the "conservatives are hypocrites" tactic in the liberal bag of tricks where it belongs.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

I don't care about his golf games. That is as irrelevant as excusing Obama for his actions, "because Bush did it, too".

And, if there were a jury, it's still out whether Obama is complying with the law with his actions or not. He's, at the very least, arguably thumbed his nose at his Oath of Office, the law and the Constitution many times since he was first elected.

And that...is what this thread is all about. Whether he has taken the law into his own hands or not.

Umm ... there will be no jury because he's done nothing illegal, no matter how hard you wish he has. As far as arguing that he thumbs his nose at his oath, excuse me when I laugh at partisan rightwingers whining about a Democrat president. I don't know that I've ever not witnessed that.

I suggest you support his actions if you think he did the right thing and keep the "conservatives are hypocrites" tactic in the liberal bag of tricks where it belongs.

Who needs to hide that in a bag when you flaunt it in everybody's face? Y'all don't get to criticize Obama for what the right defended Bush for doing for 8 years without being called a hypocrite. Life just don't work that way.

All presidents issue executive orders. It comes with the job.

 

[Hypersonic]

Dude...I don't care if you like Obama or not. As long as you won't hold him responsible for his own actions, you are attempting to cover for him.

I say you are wrong to do so and all of your blather about Bush means nothing.

Wait, where in my post did I say Obama isn't responsible?

Here is some common sense thinking for you....

I didn't like Bush's policies nor did I like Bush nor did I like him as a president....Obama is doing nothing different than any president before him.

If Obama is Bush 2.0 where do you think I stand?



(cue Jeopardy theme)

Obama is doing nothing different than any president before him.

 

[windowdressing]

It seems our dictator, I mean president has decided the dream act is law. "Congress? We don't need no stinking congress".

"About 400,000 "Dreamers" have been allowed to stay in the United States in the year since the Obama administration began accepting applications for young illegal immigrants to defer deportation proceedings and receive work permits, according to data compiled by the Brookings Institution and released on the anniversary of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program.
The numbers show that out of more than a half-million applicants for deferred action, more than three-quarters were accepted and just 1 percent denied. The applications were concentrated in states that already have large immigrant communities, such as California, Texas, New York, Illinois, and Florida. On the East Coast, the applications were from a more diverse set of countries while in the West, Midwest, and South the vast majority of applicants were from Mexico." "I believe that this president will be tempted, if nothing happens in Congress, to issue an executive order as he did for the Dream Act kids a year ago, where he basically legalizes 11 million people by the sign of a pen," Rubio said during an interview with radio station WFLA earlier this week.

In First Year of New Program, Deportation Is Deferred for 400,000 Young Immigrants - NationalJournal.com

you deserve credit for announcing at the beginning of your posts that you're about to say something dumb ... a "dictator" elected twice and who could be removed constitutionally without any violence whatever?

 

[Mycroft]

Umm ... there will be no jury because he's done nothing illegal, no matter how hard you wish he has. As far as arguing that he thumbs his nose at his oath, excuse me when I laugh at partisan rightwingers whining about a Democrat president. I don't know that I've ever not witnessed that.

Oh, you have your opinion of the legality of his actions...others have differing opinions. But, you see, all you've given to support your opinion is blather about Bush. You'll understand, I'm sure, when I tell you that you just haven't made your case.

Who needs to hide that in a bag when you flaunt it in everybody's face? Y'all don't get to criticize Obama for what the right defended Bush for doing for 8 years without being called a hypocrite. Life just don't work that way.

All presidents issue executive orders. It comes with the job.

Again...if your only defense of Obama is that other Presidents have done the same, then you'll understand if I dismiss you out of hand. You've brought nothing compelling to the table.

 

[Mycroft]

Wait, where in my post did I say Obama isn't responsible?

Here is some common sense thinking for you....

I didn't like Bush's policies nor did I like Bush nor did I like him as a president....Obama is doing nothing different than any president before him.

If Obama is Bush 2.0 where do you think I stand?



(cue Jeopardy theme)

Obama is doing nothing different than any president before him.

Oh, but Obama IS doing things differently than Presidents before him. He is taking the law into his own hands.

In any event, your insistence on excusing Obama because other Presidents have taken similar action is nothing more than the acceptance of the status quo. Don't you think illegal activity needs to be stopped at some point?

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Again...if your only defense of Obama is that other Presidents have done the same, then you'll understand if I dismiss you out of hand. You've brought nothing compelling to the table.

Well then dismiss yourself for taking the, "Obama is the only president to be held in contempt for signing executive orders even though it's a constitutionally allowed function which every president does," route.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Oh, but Obama IS doing things differently than Presidents before him. He is taking the law into his own hands.

In any event, your insistence on excusing Obama because other Presidents have taken similar action is nothing more than the acceptance of the status quo. Don't you think illegal activity needs to be stopped at some point?

Well, except that he's not. Had he done what you accuse him of, his executive order would have been sent to the U.S.S.C. to rule on it's constitutionality. That didn't happen because your imagination is not reality.

 

[Mycroft]

Well then dismiss yourself for taking the, "Obama is the only president to be held in contempt for signing executive orders even though it's a constitutionally allowed function which every president does," route.

Oh?

And when have I ever said that?

Please don't apply the standards YOU accept to me...unless I express agreement with such standards. It only indicates that you are bereft of any reasonable discussion.

 

[obvious Child]

you deserve credit for announcing at the beginning of your posts that you're about to say something dumb ... a "dictator" elected twice and who could be removed constitutionally without any violence whatever?

Remember, people said this about Bush. And they had a better line in Bush wasn't elected the first time. He was appointed. Still didn't change the fact Bush wasn't a dictator.

It's not hard to tell who are the raging partisan hacks here.

 

[Hypersonic]

Oh, but Obama IS doing things differently than Presidents before him. He is taking the law into his own hands.

In any event, your insistence on excusing Obama because other Presidents have taken similar action is nothing more than the acceptance of the status quo. Don't you think illegal activity needs to be stopped at some point?

You know this is a useless endeavor. I see where you're going with this so I'll bow out here.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Oh?

And when have I ever said that?

Please don't apply the standards YOU accept to me...unless I express agreement with such standards. It only indicates that you are bereft of any reasonable discussion.

Which part do you deny saying? That it's inexcusable to cite the fact that every president signs executive orders?

"if your only defense of Obama is that other Presidents have done the same, then you'll understand if I dismiss you out of hand." ~ Mycroft​

No, can't be that because you actually did say that.

Perhaps you're denying you ever displayed contempt for Obama signing executive orders?

No, can't be that either since you also said that ...

"He's, at the very least, arguably thumbed his nose at his Oath of Office, the law and the Constitution many times since he was first elected. And that...is what this thread is all about. Whether he has taken the law into his own hands or not." ~ Mycroft​

<sigh> if only I earned a buck every time a righties claimed they didn't say what they said, I could retire early.

 

[obvious Child]

Notice how most "centrist" always agree with the radical left?

That's because your perception is skewed.

Once you hit a certain fringe of right or left, anyone who disagrees with anything you say or think is either on the radical left or right.

Extremists of both sides lose the capacity to see any form of middle ground whatsoever. It's all black and white to them. Hence why you consider centrists to be radical left, because you've gone so far to the right that you've lost all ability to perceive anything other than 100% agreement with you or 100% disagreement.

 

[justabubba]

I'll never understand the rights' obsession with Obama playing golf. :shrug:

well, a republican would never devote so much time as president playing such a game as golf:

... Eisenhower had a putting green installed on the White House lawn. He was a member of Augusta National Golf Club and played there a lot.

According to a Golf Digest article from 2008, Eisenhower played golf more than 800 times during his presidency.

And Ike's presidency wasn't a time of tranquillity in America or the world: The Civil Rights movement and Southern desegregation battles were under way; Castro came to power in Cuba; the French pulled out of Indochina in defeat and America began stepping up its own involvement in Vietnam; the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union was getting very chilly indeed.

And yet Eisenhower managed to spend more than 1,000 days of his presidency (according to Golf Digest's count) playing golf or involved in some other golf-related activity. ...

[emphasis added by bubba]
Eisenhower Golf - President Dwight Eisenhower and Golf

damn democrat and his obsession with a game of golf. but there is a difference. Obama is black [/sarcasm]

 

[Mycroft]

You know this is a useless endeavor. I see where you're going with this so I'll bow out here.

Good.

I'm glad you finally realize that I, for one, will not allow your use of that particular liberal tactic and that, from the start, it was a useless endeavor.

 

[Mycroft]

Which part do you deny saying? That it's inexcusable to cite the fact that every president signs executive orders?

"if your only defense of Obama is that other Presidents have done the same, then you'll understand if I dismiss you out of hand." ~ Mycroft​

No, can't be that because you actually did say that.

Perhaps you're denying you ever displayed contempt for Obama signing executive orders?

No, can't be that either since you also said that ...

"He's, at the very least, arguably thumbed his nose at his Oath of Office, the law and the Constitution many times since he was first elected. And that...is what this thread is all about. Whether he has taken the law into his own hands or not." ~ Mycroft​

<sigh> if only I earned a buck every time a righties claimed they didn't say what they said, I could retire early.

You could retire much earlier if you earned a buck every time you misinterpreted other's words...because that's all you've done here.

The fact that I don't accept your attempt to excuse Obama because "every other President has done the same" doesn't mean at all that I am excusing any other President. It simply means that we are talking about Obama here...not any other President. Or, at least, I am.

And why would you apply an attitude of contempt for Obama upon me? I have no contempt for him...I only think he is violating his Oath, the law and the Constitution. He's done some other pretty good things. After all, he got bin Laden and early on, he continued Bush's plan of action regarding the war on terror. He's done some things right...but overall, they don't make him a good President.

Tell you what...when you are ready to discuss Obama's actions instead of excusing Obama based on the fact that other Presidents have taken the same action...and when you are ready to actually understand what I say...then I may continue talking to you instead of dismissing your tactic.

 

[CalGun]

I'm guessing you don't even have an idea of what I was implying as a "centrist" and a "radical left" perhaps it was better stated as a "centrist" and a left wing partisan hack? This was written by a so called centrist:

"When our do-nothing congress sits on its hands and does nothing, our democratically elected president has to step up and do something.
If the G-nO-P doesn't like what he does, maybe they'll wake up and do something."

Hence we have a left minded partisan hack calling themselves a centrist. Pathetic.

That's because your perception is skewed.

Once you hit a certain fringe of right or left, anyone who disagrees with anything you say or think is either on the radical left or right.

Extremists of both sides lose the capacity to see any form of middle ground whatsoever. It's all black and white to them. Hence why you consider centrists to be radical left, because you've gone so far to the right that you've lost all ability to perceive anything other than 100% agreement with you or 100% disagreement.

 

[Hypersonic]

Good.

I'm glad you finally realize that I, for one, will not allow your use of that particular liberal tactic and that, from the start, it was a useless endeavor.

No. You just come across as a bumbling conservative idiot and I for one don't have the time or patience for idiots. If you at least had 1/4 of some kind of intelligence to agree to disagree I may be patient but you're intending on just being naive and stubborn without listening to opinions that differ from your own.

 

[Mycroft]

No. You just come across as a bumbling conservative idiot and I for one don't have the time or patience for idiots. If you at least had 1/4 of some kind of intelligence to agree to disagree I may be patient but you're intending on just being naive and stubborn without listening to opinions that differ from your own.

LOL!! Dude...welcome to the ranks of those who have nothing left but personal attacks.

 

[Hypersonic]

LOL!! Dude...welcome to the ranks of those who have nothing left but personal attacks.

I didn't call you an idiot, I said you come across as one. You presentation here can create false perceptions of who you are just like you believe that my comment leads me to be "among the ranks who commit personal attacks." I tried offering you a dialetical argument but you seem to overlook that and force people to say "Yeah it's all Obama's fault." You offer no real support for your stance even in the face of links that substantiate claims I've made. You're really not here to agree to disagree or respectfully agree. You're here to whine about Obama and assume that because we don't verbatim say "this or that is Obama's fault" we are somehow excusing him. So alas you do come across as a conservative idiot kind of like Bill O'Rielly.