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Kinda wondering why we dont have this already

Many face problems with drug addiction and the inability to leave the field because of people like pimps. Part of the program is getting law enforcement involved to break the hold of pimps and the threat of violence.

Ok, so if they don't like having a drug addiction, can't they just check themselves into rehab? Why do they need a special program for that? I agree that they should be protected against the threat of violence. If they are faced with the threat of violence they should be able to call 911 without having to worry that they will get in trouble for being prostitutes. That is a change that needs to happen.

What does any of that have to do with job training and programs and stuff?
 
Ok, so if they don't like having a drug addiction, can't they just check themselves into rehab? Why do they need a special program for that? I agree that they should be protected against the threat of violence. If they are faced with the threat of violence they should be able to call 911 without having to worry that they will get in trouble for being prostitutes. That is a change that needs to happen.
They may not like being on drugs but as anyone who has had problems with substance abuse can tell you, once you're in deep you often need a strong reason to pull yourself out. Getting clean just for the sake of being clean may not be enough. But getting clean as a shot to a real life, that's pretty powerful.

What does any of that have to do with job training and programs and stuff?
Most prostitutes dont have any job training, skills, or education and therefore are never going to get a job that isnt minimum wage without some sort of training.
 
They may not like being on drugs but as anyone who has had problems with substance abuse can tell you, once you're in deep you often need a strong reason to pull yourself out. Getting clean just for the sake of being clean may not be enough. But getting clean as a shot to a real life, that's pretty powerful

Ok, so why don't they check themselves into rehab for a shot at a "real life" then? If a shot at a "real life" is motivation enough, then why don't they set aside $100 each night for their "get a real life fund" check themselves into rehab and give themselves job training? Hell, with what they are making they could put themselves through law school and medical school.

Most prostitutes dont have any job training, skills, or education and therefore are never going to get a job that isnt minimum wage without some sort of training.

Ok, so they can go to their local airport and spend their life savings on flying lessons. Thats what I did. Or they could enroll at a community college, get their AA, transfer to a University and become a doctor. Or a lawyer. Or a marine biologist. I don't get what this program is supposed to do. Folks making a couple hundred dollars a night don't need money thrown at them in order to achieve their goals. They just need some goals.

Personally, I don't think being a courtesan is a particularly unworthy profession. Not like being a lawyer or a politician. But if a girl wants to switch careers, she should save her pennies and do so. She doesn't need a government program for that.
 
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If it were that easy, there would be far fewer prostitutes.
 
If it were that easy, there would be far fewer prostitutes.

So why aren't there far fewer prostitutes?

Is it because they can't save $100 a night? Would they be unable to survive on the other $100? I have survived on far less myself and put myself through flight school to boot, so it is unlikely that you will convince me that it can't be done. How is throwing money at the people who are already making bank going to solve anything?

Personally I think that the reason there aren't fewer prostitutes is because:

A) It is a damn lucrative career.
B) Sex is fun. I speak from personal experience. ;-)
C) It is a damn lucrative career.
D) They are afraid of change
E) It is a damn lucrative career.
F) They are faced with some threat of violence which they don't feel they can escape from and which throwing money at will not help.
 
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It's a myth that most women of prostitution want to be there. Most don't. Most are trapped, or have been convinced that they can't do better by their abusive cohorts or masters. Many are directly threatened with death if they leave.
than why are there so many hookers where it is legal?
 
Gawd. So many misconceptions here, where do I begin? First off, the drugged out, pimp controlled streetwalkers are the minority. Do they need help? To get off the drugs they're addicted to, yeah they quite possibly do.

But the majority of prostitutes are NOT drugged out, pimp-controlled streetwalkers. They're educated, clean women and "pimps" are largely a thing of the past. Nowadays, you have escort services, not a 'pimp'. These businesses are the front and provide the girls with a way to meet customers, transportation if necessary, and protection if desired. In return, the girls pay them a fee. Just like any other third party business. Most of the girls, however, will gather a group of regulars and drop the escort service after awhile.

A service like the one in the OP will possibly help the drug addled streetwalkers that comprise the minority of prostitutes, and that's not a bad thing per se. Essentially, it would just be a drug rehab program and could be open for anyone. But it wouldn't affect the majority of prostitutes since they don't require that kind of assistance. They aren't destitute, they aren't uneducated, and they aren't drug addicts.
 
Good a reason as any, I suppose. Points for the directness but it lacks a certain...oh what is it....ah yes, validity. "I want it" is not sufficient reason for making something legal or illegal. If it were, there would be a hell of a lot fewer black people south of the Mason Dixon line. .



I resent that remark sir.

I have encountered at least as much racism among people who were not born in the South, if not more. The ongoing misrepresentation of the South as a hotbed of widespread racism is an affront to the dignity of every Southerner of all races.

My seconds shall call upon you in the morning. :mrgreen:
 
So why aren't there far fewer prostitutes?

Is it because they can't save $100 a night? Would they be unable to survive on the other $100? I have survived on far less myself and put myself through flight school to boot, so it is unlikely that you will convince me that it can't be done. How is throwing money at the people who are already making bank going to solve anything?

Personally I think that the reason there aren't fewer prostitutes is because:

A) It is a damn lucrative career.
B) Sex is fun. I speak from personal experience. ;-)
C) It is a damn lucrative career.
D) They are afraid of change
E) It is a damn lucrative career.
F) They are faced with some threat of violence which they don't feel they can escape from and which throwing money at will not help.

It's lucrative if you dont have to give that money to a pimp.

Sex is fun, yes, but I hardly think thats a real reason for prostitutes to stay. Sex with random strangers is NOT fun, especially if you risk being beaten or seriously injured and you know you cant turn the John in for it.

The last option is a very real problem and one that can be addressed by law enforcement.


But the majority of prostitutes are NOT drugged out, pimp-controlled streetwalkers. They're educated, clean women and "pimps" are largely a thing of the past. Nowadays, you have escort services, not a 'pimp'. These businesses are the front and provide the girls with a way to meet customers, transportation if necessary, and protection if desired. In return, the girls pay them a fee. Just like any other third party business. Most of the girls, however, will gather a group of regulars and drop the escort service after awhile.
This is true to a point, however there is still a widespread network of streetwalkers. ESPECIALLY in larger metropolitan areas and pimps are very much still in business. The advent of things like Craigslist has meant the pimp is far less visible, but having spent a large part of my life in and around LA, they're still there.

I resent that remark sir.

I have encountered at least as much racism among people who were not born in the South, if not more. The ongoing misrepresentation of the South as a hotbed of widespread racism is an affront to the dignity of every Southerner of all races.

My seconds shall call upon you in the morning. :mrgreen:
It was a joke, calm.
 
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...
Yes. I have the same objection with the legal fringes of the sex industry that I do with prostitution. And they're valid objections. Objectifying sex hurts people and it encourages them to hurt others. It erodes the power and the beauty of something that is supposed to be one of the best parts of our lives.

"It's none of our business" is the start of every argument in favor of allowing our culture and our society to spiral down the drains into the sewers of decadence and degradation. I say that the moral conduct of our fellow man is absolutely our business, and that every last one of us has an obligation to uphold that moral conduct.

Prostitution is abusive in and of itself. Legalizing it will not change that.


...
Except morality is relative, why should we follow your particular brand of morality which says prostitution is not ok as opposed to mine which says it should be legalized and the workers protected?


Not true at all. There is nothing abusive about the act of exchanging sex for money in an atmosphere where both parties have the option of backing out. Illegal prostitution tends to attract crime, people who abuse the prostitutes because of what they do and they know the hooker probably wont turn them in because then they'll have to admit what they were doing.

Consider that we exchange sex for money all the time, if you take a girl out on a date to dinner and a movie, that's $40-50 or more. You go home at the end of the night and there is often the expectation of sex from one or both parties. It's not as forward as prostitution, but the principal is the same.


Welcome to my world, Korimyr. :mrgreen:

I get this sort of thing anytime I try to argue for the slightest hint of any mildest sort of public decency standard...
 
This program would ruin our education system because all of the community college professors would likely get fired a lot for trading A's for T & A.
 
It was a joke, calm.

No, no, it is far too late for you to grovel in abject apology. Honor must be satisfied.

Weapons will be Champaigne magnums at five paces, shaken up and then opened. The stoppers may be cork or plastic, as you prefer. Armor will be limited to safety glasses only. Firing will continue by turns until blood is drawn, or someone gets an "owie".

:gunner::blastem:


:lamo
 
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Welcome to my world, Korimyr. :mrgreen:

I get this sort of thing anytime I try to argue for the slightest hint of any mildest sort of public decency standard...
Because the idea of a "public decency" standard is BS subjectivity and laws should not be made on emotional desires. I recall others making this point earlier...
 
But the majority of prostitutes are NOT drugged out, pimp-controlled streetwalkers. They're educated, clean women and "pimps" are largely a thing of the past. Nowadays, you have escort services, not a 'pimp'. These businesses are the front and provide the girls with a way to meet customers, transportation if necessary, and protection if desired. In return, the girls pay them a fee. Just like any other third party business. Most of the girls, however, will gather a group of regulars and drop the escort service after awhile.

I'm sorry but escort services are not the same as street corners. Escort services largely cater to upper crust type clients and the women providing the service tend to be well off. On the streets, however, there is a disproportionate number of illegal immigrants who were either lured from foreign places with false promises, or they were coerced after they arrived. The white prostitution market is better off across the board, even in the areas of illegality. Women who are dark skinned or asian are not part of the well off market you're talking about.

I mean, we've all seen instances like the big boobed white escort who appeared on Oprah to talk about how prostitution is her empowered choice, and that it should be legal in order to empower women everywhere, but she's already in a position of power. She's a white woman. She's beautiful. When she talks, people listen. But that is not the real voice of prostitution. I disagree with you that the minority are controlled by pimps or experienced sexual assault and repeated abuse. They are the majority the world over. The legal sex industry is booming so why are so many people sucked into the gutter of the illegal underground? Why don't those women just transfer to the legal industry and do other work that is comparatively safer, healthier, and out of dodge? Obviously their choices are being affected by certain circumstances.

Legalization creates standards for safer sex in prostitution, but it's up to the woman and the client to obey them. There will always be johns who are willing to pay more for unprotected. There will always be johns who like it rough, or who like their women stripped of power.

This is why I am in favor of decriminalization but not legalization. The women need agency to leave if they want, but at the same time the (mostly) men who lured them into it should not escape punishment. Nor should the clientele. Legalization does nothing to curb the illegal global trafficking of women and children. If it's legal, then when a woman gets abused the law will just say that she walked into it; if it's legal, then when a woman has AIDS then they will just see her as a high hazard worker. Nothing will happen to the johns, or the pimps who pressured through abuse to go for the higher price tag for unprotected sex.

A service like the one in the OP will possibly help the drug addled streetwalkers that comprise the minority of prostitutes, and that's not a bad thing per se. Essentially, it would just be a drug rehab program and could be open for anyone. But it wouldn't affect the majority of prostitutes since they don't require that kind of assistance. They aren't destitute, they aren't uneducated, and they aren't drug addicts.

I strongly disagree with this assessment. Prostitution that is visible, marketed, and high profile in the media is not representative of what exists on the street level and behind closed doors in all the illegal arrangements. You should take a stroll though East Hastings in Vancouver and try to tell me that those women are empowered.
 
Why don't the girls set aside a chunk of the couple hundred they make each night, and pay for the tuition themselves? Actually, wait a minute... Why would they want a job training program or vocational school? They already have a lucrative career. A couple hundred a night is more than some folks make flying airplanes.

I don't think anyone who makes a couple hundred bucks a night needs any taxpayer charity.

I think a lot of those girls are emotionally disturbed. And with drugs problems added to that, they think they need the comparatively high earnings a prostitute gets. And, prostitution may be difficult to get out of, because of sick relationships with pimps.
 
All law is subjective, and based on emotional desires and cultural mores.
 
Making prostitution legal (as it is in the Netherlands) solves this problem and obviates the need for programs like that described in the OP.
I dont think what happens in the Netherlands solves the problem. It is more a lesser of the evils solution. ie. if they must be prostitutes, then make it safer by making it legal, and with compulsary regular health check for the prostitutes, and the prostitutes hiring professional security men, rather than depending on pimps to provide 'protection'. Also, when it is out in the open and legal, the prostitututes are protected by law against violence. As well as that, they pay taxes, in the Netherlands.
 
I'm sorry but escort services are not the same as street corners.
No they're not. Hence why I made the distinction and stated that escorts are the majority and streetwalkers are the minority. All are prostitutes, however.


Women who are dark skinned or asian are not part of the well off market you're talking about.
Yes, they are part of that market. Very much a part of it, actually. Since requests for such women come through regularly.

I mean, we've all seen instances like the big boobed white escort who appeared on Oprah to talk about how prostitution is her empowered choice, and that it should be legal in order to empower women everywhere, but she's already in a position of power. She's a white woman. She's beautiful. When she talks, people listen. But that is not the real voice of prostitution. I disagree with you that the minority are controlled by pimps or experienced sexual assault and repeated abuse. They are the majority the world over.
No, they are not the majority in this country. You can disagree all you want, but I've lived it.

The legal sex industry is booming so why are so many people sucked into the gutter of the illegal underground?
Same reason people are sucked into underground areas of work in any profession. Same reason people join gangs, and whatnot. Often, it's ignorance.

Why don't those women just transfer to the legal industry and do other work that is comparatively safer, healthier, and out of dodge? Obviously their choices are being affected by certain circumstances.
Each woman's choice is her own, I cannot speak for all, obviously. Only for myself and the countless others I knew. But EVERYONE'S choices are affected by "certain circumstances".

Legalization creates standards for safer sex in prostitution, but it's up to the woman and the client to obey them. There will always be johns who are willing to pay more for unprotected. There will always be johns who like it rough, or who like their women stripped of power.

This is why I am in favor of decriminalization but not legalization. The women need agency to leave if they want, but at the same time the (mostly) men who lured them into it should not escape punishment. Nor should the clientele. Legalization does nothing to curb the illegal global trafficking of women and children. If it's legal, then when a woman gets abused the law will just say that she walked into it; if it's legal, then when a woman has AIDS then they will just see her as a high hazard worker. Nothing will happen to the johns, or the pimps who pressured through abuse to go for the higher price tag for unprotected sex.
I'm all for legalization OR decriminalization.


I strongly disagree with this assessment. Prostitution that is visible, marketed, and high profile in the media is not representative of what exists on the street level and behind closed doors in all the illegal arrangements. You should take a stroll though East Hastings in Vancouver and try to tell me that those women are empowered.
Where did I mention the word "empowered"? These women all make choices for themselves. The ones that are hooked on drugs likely do need some assistance to get out of the situation they willingly put themselves in. Drug rehab programs address this issue.

And, as I said... the most visible prostitutes are the streetwalkers and they are what everyone thinks of when they think of prostitutes, but they are the minority.
 
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If you provide an opportunity for people to get off the streets, get off drugs, and have a shot at a real life, there are a lot of people who'd stand up and take that chance. As a society, we receive the benefit of combating associated crime that tends to follow prostitution as well as re-integrating productive people back into our society.

I understand what you are saying, but at some point, a person who has gotten trapped into a life they don't like will find a way out. At one time, my son had a pretty significant drug problem, and was basically living on the streets. It was his choice, because he wasn't willing to follow the house rules, and my house is not a democracy after a certain point. He had an experience which scared the hell out of him, and he decided to go clean and become a productive member of society, which he did very well, and is now starting back to school for an engineering degree.
 
I have exactly zero experience with high-class escorts, but being an ex-cop I've known plenty of streetwalkers. I've known one that was independent and tough enough to enforce it, but the rest were dependent on some pimp. They didn't get to keep the money they made, they turned it over to the pimp who saw to it that they had some place to sleep, something to eat, and most importantly got their drugs.

Almost all of them were drug addicts, usually crack or meth. Basically they whored for their drug and the basics of life. Any substantial profits accrued to the pimp. They couldn't save money unless they hid it from their pimp, a dangerous prospect. It's not like they could just put a hundred bucks a night up to save up for a real life. The pimp wouldn't allow it.

I've watched some of them individually as they wasted away and died. They get skinny, then unhealthily skinny. Their teeth start to rot away in many cases due to the meth. They get STD's, and it gets worse. Then one day you don't see them on the street anymore, because they're dead. Sometimes it only takes a few years.

It's very sad, I think.
 
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