Killing Gays is a Belief Held by ‘Moderate Muslims’ [W:71]

[Kobie]

Who were the Christians in the OT?

/sigh

Couldn't be missing the point harder.

 

[Josie]

/sigh

Couldn't be missing the point harder.

Can't answer that, can ya? Because the OT was JEWISH law -- Christians live under grace, not laws.

 

[Kobie]

Can't answer that, can ya? Because the OT was JEWISH law -- Christians live under grace, not laws.

Tell that to the fundie nutters who cite Leviticus when it comes to homosexuality.

Do the Ten Commamdments apply to Christians? That's Jewish law too.

 

[Josie]

Tell that to the fundie nutters who cite Leviticus when it comes to homosexuality.

Do the Ten Commamdments apply to Christians? That's Jewish law too.

I've asked people to show me where Christians cite Leviticus when discussing homosexuality --- I'm waiting for links so I can call them idiots.

The Ten Commandments were also Jewish law. Again, Christians are saved by grace and aren't condemned by laws.

 

[DamnYankee]

Really? "Christians" don't believe in killing homosexuals?

:roll:

Yes. Really. Get over it.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

:roll:

Yes. Really. Get over it.

Here, just to remind you of what you apparently refused to read (from last November, remember):

Last weekend Senator Ted Cruz, along with fellow GOP presidential candidates Mike Huckabee and Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal, spoke at a conference in Des Moines headed up by a man who advocates the execution of gay people — per his interpretation of the bible — and who made his call for mass extermination once again, onstage at the event, the National Religious Liberties Conference. Pastor Kevin Swanson has said in the past that Christians should attend gay weddings and hold up signs telling the newly married gay and lesbian couples that they “should be put to death.” He was an advocate of Uganda’s infamous “Kill the Gays” bill, which he saw as a model.

At the confab over the weekend, where he introduced Huckabee, Jindal and Cruz to the audience — and where Ted Cruz’s father, Rafael Cruz, an anti-gay Tea Party crusader, was a star speaker — he reiterated his death penalty call, adding that homosexuals should first be given some time to repent before the executions begin.

And when it comes to Islam, what would do you a great deal of good would be to realize that Islam is every bit as fractured as "Christianity", if not more so. Making a broad-brush sweeping judgement about what "Islam believes" evinces a great deal of ignorance of Islam itself - some believe in icons, most don't. Some believe in a single leader like the Catholics do with the pope - most don't. Most believe in using the Hadith and Sunna (writings and sayings) that came after the death of Mohammed - some don't. It's freaking confusing trying to figure out any one belief - except perhaps for the daily prayers, the Hajj, and the nature of God, that all Muslims agree on...and I'm not even sure about those three.

In case you're wondering, the only reason I know a bit about Islam is because I wrote a book for which I wound up having to research Islam in addition to a bevy of other subjects from Syrian geography to care of horses to haplotype maps for viruses - which gave me a great deal of respect for writers and the amount of research they must do.

 

[Josie]

I'm curious about this Kevin Swanson moron --- if he believes gays should be put to death, why didn't he or one of his flock kill 50 people at the gay nightclub or anywhere else?

 

[DamnYankee]

Here, just to remind you of what you apparently refused to read (from last November, remember):

Last weekend Senator Ted Cruz, along with fellow GOP presidential candidates Mike Huckabee and Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal, spoke at a conference in Des Moines headed up by a man who advocates the execution of gay people — per his interpretation of the bible — and who made his call for mass extermination once again, onstage at the event, the National Religious Liberties Conference. Pastor Kevin Swanson has said in the past that Christians should attend gay weddings and hold up signs telling the newly married gay and lesbian couples that they “should be put to death.” He was an advocate of Uganda’s infamous “Kill the Gays” bill, which he saw as a model.

At the confab over the weekend, where he introduced Huckabee, Jindal and Cruz to the audience — and where Ted Cruz’s father, Rafael Cruz, an anti-gay Tea Party crusader, was a star speaker — he reiterated his death penalty call, adding that homosexuals should first be given some time to repent before the executions begin.

And when it comes to Islam, what would do you a great deal of good would be to realize that Islam is every bit as fractured as "Christianity", if not more so. Making a broad-brush sweeping judgement about what "Islam believes" evinces a great deal of ignorance of Islam itself - some believe in icons, most don't. Some believe in a single leader like the Catholics do with the pope - most don't. Most believe in using the Hadith and Sunna (writings and sayings) that came after the death of Mohammed - some don't. It's freaking confusing trying to figure out any one belief - except perhaps for the daily prayers, the Hajj, and the nature of God, that all Muslims agree on...and I'm not even sure about those three.

In case you're wondering, the only reason I know a bit about Islam is because I wrote a book for which I wound up having to research Islam in addition to a bevy of other subjects from Syrian geography to care of horses to haplotype maps for viruses - which gave me a great deal of respect for writers and the amount of research they must do.

Yeah, doesn't sound right to me. What's your source? I have to look into this a little more. I'll save your post and get back to you.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Yeah, doesn't sound right to me. What's your source? I have to look into this a little more. I'll save your post and get back to you.

Look it up - I provided it to you in the previous comment. And yeah, you'll probably want to ignore it since it's from the Huffington post...never mind that the article has a link to the video of the guy saying what I just posted.

 

[Cephus]

Read your Book, sir. Start with Paul's epistle to the Romans Widely considered to be the fullest and best exposition of Pauline (and hence moderate Christian) theology in the Book.

Come on, you know that most self-identified Christians have no clue what's actually in that Big Book of Multiple Choice they profess to believe in. I'd argue the same is true of most self-identified Muslims. Both of them believe the parts they like and ignore the rest, especially in the western world. It's only the crazies who actually try to believe all of it that get into trouble and end up flying planes into buildings and the like.

 

[Cephus]

"Normally," being the key word.

Islam isn't normal.

Christians however do not believe in killing homosexuals. That's the belief of Islam.

Hope this helps.

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - Leviticus 20:13

Or don't you know what's in the Bible?

 

[Josie]

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - Leviticus 20:13

Or don't you know what's in the Bible?

That's Jewish law.

 

[Cephus]

How do they make life "unbearable" and name one, JUST ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "basic human rights," the Christian church, in the US, has authority to deny...lol

I'm curious.

Name one, just one, that Muslims have the authority to deny. Go ahead. Stop being a hypocrite.

 

[Cephus]

Yes. Your leftists propaganda is wrong. Believe it or not. Not very many Christian churches are out there preaching death to homosexuals.

SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So these people don't exist?

 

[Cephus]

That's Jewish law.

No, actually, it's not. Even Jesus said so. "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." - Matthew 5:18

But by all means, keep pretending that you can ignore the parts you don't like.

 

[Josie]

No, actually, it's not. Even Jesus said so. "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." - Matthew 5:18

But by all means, keep pretending that you can ignore the parts you don't like.

Perhaps you should read up on ceremonial laws, judicial laws and moral laws since apparently you're saying that Jesus wanted to kill gays.

 

[Grand Mal]

That's Jewish law.

Leviticus is what Christians rely on when they say homosexuality is a sin. Unless Paul can decide what's sinful and what isn't.

 

[Josie]

Leviticus is what Christians rely on when they say homosexuality is a sin. Unless Paul can decide what's sinful and what isn't.

No, it's what stupid Christians rely on when talking about homosexuality. Leviticus should only be used for a historical viewpoint - homosexuality was considered sexual immorality all through Biblical times.

 

[Grand Mal]

No, it's what stupid Christians rely on when talking about homosexuality. Leviticus should only be used for a historical viewpoint - homosexuality was considered sexual immorality all through Biblical times.

And by Celts, and by Vikings and lots of heathens. But where did the sin come from? Where but Leviticus? Not from Paul, the old sinner. The only place in the Bible, outside of the Epistles, that declares homosexuality a sin is Leviticus and you're right, that book deals with Jewish sins and proscriptions.

 

[sanman]

So these people don't exist?

View attachment 67202917

Those people aren't Omar Mateen. You might as well have posted a pic of a guy from Mexico holding up the same sign in Spanish, for all the difference it makes.

 

[Josie]

And by Celts, and by Vikings and lots of heathens. But where did the sin come from? Where but Leviticus? Not from Paul, the old sinner. The only place in the Bible, outside of the Epistles, that declares homosexuality a sin is Leviticus and you're right, that book deals with Jewish sins and proscriptions.

That's incorrect. Historically, homosexuality was considered an abomination all through Biblical times and before, I imagine. Jesus spoke against sexual immorality.

Here is my post from last year about this very topic:

I've already said this repeatedly on this thread -- Jesus never specifically mentioned the word homosexuality or "man/man, woman/woman". He was, however, a Jew who lived under the Law of Moses. He always proclaimed adherence to that Law (which, I'm sure you know was very much against homosexuality). He spoke about sexual immorality which is an umbrella term for all sexual behavior that was sinful. That included homosexuality (see the OT if you need affirmation on that). Jesus didn't need to specifically list every single act included in sexual immorality, because His followers knew the law and understood what He meant. The history of the Jews and their covenant with God is proof that Jesus believed that homosexuality was sexual immorality.

Further proof (as I've also said repeatedly) is that when Jesus spoke of romantic love He never, ever, ever, ever used ambiguous terms -- it was always man and woman. Always. There is no other interpretation of Mark 10:5-9 except "man and woman". You keep saying it's about the interpretation, but I've asked you again and again to show me a different interpretation and translation of Jesus' words about romantic relationships. What you REALLY mean is that it's about opinion.

That leads me to the denominations who have proclaimed homosexuality to not be a sin. They don't base their beliefs on Jesus' words or Jewish history at all. They conform to what the world believes is a-okay in order to keep members of their denomination (and keep money rolling in, of course). They have proclaimed their opinion to be that homosexuality isn't sinful. Their opinion doesn't jibe with Jesus' words.

And the link to the post if you'd like to continue off-topic:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...tion-without-conversion-7.html#post1065384942

 

[Grand Mal]

That's incorrect. Historically, homosexuality was considered an abomination all through Biblical times and before, I imagine. Jesus spoke against sexual immorality.

Here is my post from last year about this very topic:

I've already said this repeatedly on this thread -- Jesus never specifically mentioned the word homosexuality or "man/man, woman/woman". He was, however, a Jew who lived under the Law of Moses. He always proclaimed adherence to that Law (which, I'm sure you know was very much against homosexuality). He spoke about sexual immorality which is an umbrella term for all sexual behavior that was sinful. That included homosexuality (see the OT if you need affirmation on that). Jesus didn't need to specifically list every single act included in sexual immorality, because His followers knew the law and understood what He meant. The history of the Jews and their covenant with God is proof that Jesus believed that homosexuality was sexual immorality.

Further proof (as I've also said repeatedly) is that when Jesus spoke of romantic love He never, ever, ever, ever used ambiguous terms -- it was always man and woman. Always. There is no other interpretation of Mark 10:5-9 except "man and woman". You keep saying it's about the interpretation, but I've asked you again and again to show me a different interpretation and translation of Jesus' words about romantic relationships. What you REALLY mean is that it's about opinion.

That leads me to the denominations who have proclaimed homosexuality to not be a sin. They don't base their beliefs on Jesus' words or Jewish history at all. They conform to what the world believes is a-okay in order to keep members of their denomination (and keep money rolling in, of course). They have proclaimed their opinion to be that homosexuality isn't sinful. Their opinion doesn't jibe with Jesus' words.

And the link to the post if you'd like to continue off-topic:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...tion-without-conversion-7.html#post1065384942

But how did homosexuality become a sin if not from Leviticus? And if from Leviticus, what of the rest of the book?

 

[Josie]

But how did homosexuality become a sin if not from Leviticus? And if from Leviticus, what of the rest of the book?

I don't understand your question. I've already said that Leviticus provides a historical context for the rest of the book.

 

[Grand Mal]

I don't understand your question. I've already said that Leviticus provides a historical context for the rest of the book.

Leviticus is where homosexuality is a sin. Does the fact of homosexuality being a sin according to Leviticus affirm everything else in the book?

 

[Josie]

Leviticus is where homosexuality is a sin. Does the fact of homosexuality being a sin according to Leviticus affirm everything else in the book?

By "the book" are you talking about just the book of Leviticus or the entire Bible?