Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail[W:228]

[Manc Skipper]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

You really believe that? Why?

Her job is to verify and certify that applicants for a licence meet the legal criteria to be married. No more no less. To impose her peculiar version of morality on law-abiding citizens is foolishly exceeding her authority.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

A County Clerk IS a clerk of the court.

Not in all counties. The elected position is County Clerk, the County Clerk can function as the Fiscal Court Clerk in some counties or not.

Duties of Elected County Officials, Kentucky State Legislature -->> http://www.lrc.ky.gov/lrcpubs/ib114.pdf

Here is the County Clerk webpage (Note her title from her own statement) -->> Rowan County Kentucky Clerk

Here is the State Board of Election -->> Contact County Clerks R



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[tres borrachos]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Not in all counties. The elected position is County Clerk, the County Clerk can function as the Fiscal Court Clerk in some counties or not.

Duties of Elected County Officials, Kentucky State Legislature -->> http://www.lrc.ky.gov/lrcpubs/ib114.pdf

Here is the County Clerk webpage (Note her title from her own statement) -->> Rowan County Kentucky Clerk

Here is the State Board of Election -->> Contact County Clerks R



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What is CLERK OF COURT?


An officer of a court of justice who has charge of the clerical part of its business, who keeps its records and seal, issues process, enters judgments and orders, gives certified copies from the records, etc. Peterson v. State. 45 Wis. 540; Ross v. Ileathcock. 57 Wis. S9. 15 N. W. 9; Gordon v. State, 2 Tex. App. 154; II. S. v. Warren, 12 Okl. 350, 71 Pac. 085


Law Dictionary: What is CLERK OF COURT? definition of CLERK OF COURT (Black's Law Dictionary)


What is CLERK OF COURT? definition of CLERK OF COURT (Black's Law Dictionary)

 

[WorldWatcher]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

What is CLERK OF COURT?


An officer of a court of justice who has charge of the clerical part of its business, who keeps its records and seal, issues process, enters judgments and orders, gives certified copies from the records, etc. Peterson v. State. 45 Wis. 540; Ross v. Ileathcock. 57 Wis. S9. 15 N. W. 9; Gordon v. State, 2 Tex. App. 154; II. S. v. Warren, 12 Okl. 350, 71 Pac. 085


Law Dictionary: What is CLERK OF COURT? definition of CLERK OF COURT (Black's Law Dictionary)


What is CLERK OF COURT? definition of CLERK OF COURT (Black's Law Dictionary)

I showed multiple links to Ms. Davis actual title is under (a) her own hand, (b) the State Board of Elections, and (c) the State of Kentucky Legislature.

So you counter showing Blacks Dictionary describing the duties of a clerk court. The County Clerk Deals with deeds and other land records, marriage licenses, registration of wills, tax liens, voter registration, and county level DMV access. Court clerks maintain court records for the court, no disagreement there. However Ms. Davis is the elected County Clerk not the secretary for a County Judge.


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[tres borrachos]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

I showed multiple links to Ms. Davis actual title is under (a) her own hand, (b) the State Board of Elections, and (c) the State of Kentucky Legislature.

So you counter showing Blacks Dictionary describing the duties of a clerk court. The County Clerk Deals with deeds and other land records, marriage licenses, registration of wills, tax liens, voter registration, and county level DMV access. Court clerks maintain court records for the court, no disagreement there. However Ms. Davis is the elected County Clerk not the secretary for a County Judge.


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He didn't say she was the secretary for a County Judge.

When she's not fulfilling her duties as clerk of court,, why would you believe the legislature would not impeach her? The only issue in question is time because I believe it's a while before the legislature comes back into session.

His post was correct. She is the clerk of court. As Black's dictionary said:

An officer of a court of justice who has charge of the clerical part of its business, who keeps its records and seal, issues process, enters judgments and orders, gives certified copies from the records, etc.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

He didn't say she was the secretary for a County Judge.

When she's not fulfilling her duties as clerk of court,, why would you believe the legislature would not impeach her? The only issue in question is time because I believe it's a while before the legislature comes back into session.

His post was correct. She is the clerk of court. As Black's dictionary said:

An officer of a court of justice who has charge of the clerical part of its business, who keeps its records and seal, issues process, enters judgments and orders, gives certified copies from the records, etc.

No, her title is County Clerk. Her position is to maintain country records, not function as a law clerk for a Judge or court.

You can link to Blacks Dictionary all day long it make no difference. Her job is not to act as a record keeper for a court. Her job is to function as an elected administrator for county records. Some of those records may come from a court, no disagreement there, however many (if not most) do not come from a court they come from other transactions. She does not keep the court seeks, she doesn't sisue processes from a court, and she doesn't enter judgements and orders from a court - she may receive them for action (for example tax liens from a court action), however she doesn't enter the judgement.

Her office is Rowan County Clerk, on the State Board of Elections she is the County Clerk, and the State Legislature describes the duties as County Clerk. The County Clerk is an elected position in the Executive Branch of government, a court clerk is a hired position within the Judicial Branch of government.



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[WorldWatcher]

>

Sheesh, I was pointing out that someone was using the wrong title and was trying to help them so they could appear to have a passing knowledge of government structure and job titles and some want to turn even that into a pissing contest.




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[tres borrachos]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

No, her title is County Clerk. Her position is to maintain country records, not function as a law clerk for a Judge or court.

You can link to Blacks Dictionary all day long it make no difference. Her job is not to act as a record keeper for a court. Her job is to function as an elected administrator for county records. Some of those records may come from a court, no disagreement there, however many (if not most) do not come from a court they come from other transactions. She does not keep the court seeks, she doesn't sisue processes from a court, and she doesn't enter judgements and orders from a court - she may receive them for action (for example tax liens from a court action), however she doesn't enter the judgement.

Her office is Rowan County Clerk, on the State Board of Elections she is the County Clerk, and the State Legislature describes the duties as County Clerk. The County Clerk is an elected position in the Executive Branch of government, a court clerk is a hired position within the Judicial Branch of government.



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Who said she was a law clerk for a Judge? Link that post.

She is a clerk of the court. You keep repeating that yourself when you agree that her role in Rowan County is by definition of a clerk of the court. You keep going off on a tangent about hired positions. She is the clerk of the county. She is the clerk of the court. The only discussing clerks to judges and hired positions is you. His post was correct, but for some reason, you want to ignore it and pretend he said anything about her working for a Judge or being hired for her role.

 

[tres borrachos]

>

Sheesh, I was pointing out that someone was using the wrong title and was trying to help them so they could appear to have a passing knowledge of government structure and job titles and some want to turn even that into a pissing contest.




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Yes, you want to pretend he was wrong. I proved you wrong, and now you're mad about it and are going way off in another direction about Judges and hired staff, neither of which he said. The only person who said anything wrong here is you.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

When she's not fulfilling her duties as clerk of court,, why would you believe the legislature would not impeach her? The only issue in question is time because I believe it's a while before the legislature comes back into session.

The legislature is presumably opposed to SSM, so it's at least very possible the legislature will not vote to impeach someone doing what they support.

But whether they will or not is speculative, and the point is complying with the (now) law isn't optional. It was illegal in Alabama for interracial couples to marry until 2000, but clerks were required to comply with Loving IMMEDIATELY. So the federal judge could never rely on something that MIGHT happen when issuing a decision on the lawsuit against Davis.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Who said she was a law clerk for a Judge? Link that post.

She is a clerk of the court. You keep repeating that yourself when you agree that her role in Rowan County is by definition of a clerk of the court. You keep going off on a tangent about hired positions. She is the clerk of the county. She is the clerk of the court. The only discussing clerks to judges and hired positions is you. His post was correct, but for some reason, you want to ignore it and pretend he said anything about her working for a Judge or being hired for her role.

I have not agreed to that at all. Please don't misstate what I've said.

Clerk of a Court and County Clerk are two different position. One maintains judicial records and seals for the court and is a hired position (i.e. vacancy posted, resumes submitted, interviews held, and the court hires someone). The other maintains county records, issues marriage licenses, registers legal documents (deeds, wills, military discharges, etc - that don't have to go through a court), supervises DMV functions performed within the County Clerks office, and deals with voter registration for the county.

The County Clerk is an elected administrative position in under the Executive Branch of government. The Clerk of the Court is a hired position in the Judicial Branch of government.


State Board of Elections, the State Legislature, and Ms. Davis's office herself agree with my use of her title, not "clerk of the court".


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[WorldWatcher]

Yes, you want to pretend he was wrong.

There is no pretend. Her job is County Clerk.

I proved you wrong,...

No you didn't.

I provide evidence from her own office, from the State Board of Election, and from the State Legislature as to what her job title is.


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[roguenuke]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Prove your original statement. When she was released from jail in front of national television and with two presidential candidates and an expensive lawyer she might be getting some traction, but I may have something you lack. Common sense.

Are you saying those candidates didn't support her and her position before she was put in jail? These candidates who fought against same sex marriage themselves, talked about religious exemptions, one at least even mentioned her case prior to the contempt of court charge?

The lawyer is representing her for free as part of his own bias agenda. He only really takes these sort of cases.

 

[Paperview]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

No, her title is County Clerk. Her position is to maintain country records, not function as a law clerk for a Judge or court.

You can link to Blacks Dictionary all day long it make no difference. Her job is not to act as a record keeper for a court. Her job is to function as an elected administrator for county records. Some of those records may come from a court, no disagreement there, however many (if not most) do not come from a court they come from other transactions. She does not keep the court seeks, she doesn't sisue processes from a court, and she doesn't enter judgements and orders from a court - she may receive them for action (for example tax liens from a court action), however she doesn't enter the judgement.

Her office is Rowan County Clerk, on the State Board of Elections she is the County Clerk, and the State Legislature describes the duties as County Clerk. The County Clerk is an elected position in the Executive Branch of government, a court clerk is a hired position within the Judicial Branch of government.

Unless you're a circuit court clerk in the state of Kentucky.

:2razz:

 

[joG]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Her religious views are fully respected and protected under the First Amendment. She is free to worship and believe as she sees fit.

The issue at stake is her bid to impose those views on public service in a desperate bid to ignore the rule of law. In public service, the rule of law has primacy. Otherwise, if every government official could operate as he or she sees fit, free to ignore the constitution, statutory law, legal rulings relevant to that law, the rule of law would collapse and governance would become impossible.

She should honor the terms of her oath to the constitution or, if she is unwilling to do so, she should step aside. Her government responsibilities have nothing to do with abridging her freedom to worship and believe as she does. They only pertain to the responsibilities of her office, nothing more. Moreover, she was given a highly generous but legally unnecessary accommodation: she didn't have to engage in the marriage transactions she feels violates her religion, but could not stop the office from handling its statutory responsibilities. Instead, she's seeking to replace the office's statutory responsibilities with her personal views. That's an untenable position and a direct attack on the rule of law. No court can or should permit it.

That's all fine and good and the wrong way around. Congress is not allowed to define jobs out of reach of the religious.

I do not agree with the woman's opinions, but I think it absolutely naive to allow the Constitutional rights of a citizen to be acted against. The Constitution is all that protects the citizen from misuse of the power we must grant people to perform the jobs required for government.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

When she's not fulfilling her duties as clerk of court,, why would you believe the legislature would not impeach her? The only issue in question is time because I believe it's a while before the legislature comes back into session.

And that is time that the people waiting to get married should not have to wait.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

And that is time that the people waiting to get married should not have to wait.

We do live in an immediate gratification society don't we? What's more important to you? Rights or expedience?

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

That's all fine and good and the wrong way around. Congress is not allowed to define jobs out of reach of the religious.

I do not agree with the woman's opinions, but I think it absolutely naive to allow the Constitutional rights of a citizen to be acted against. The Constitution is all that protects the citizen from misuse of the power we must grant people to perform the jobs required for government.

There is no job that specifically bars anyone of any religious belief from holding that position, but when your religious beliefs clash with the duties of your government position, in a way that imposes your beliefs on others, prevents others from doing their job or receiving legal government issued documents or recognition, or discriminates, then it is your responsibility to decide which is more important, your job or your beliefs

 

[Paperview]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

We do live in an immediate gratification society don't we? What's more important to you? Rights or expedience?

You think it's more important to have many people have their rights denied than one government official claiming her "rights" were denied?

 

[Manc Skipper]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

We do live in an immediate gratification society don't we? What's more important to you? Rights or expedience?

I've seen a bizarre timetable offered of January 2016! That's ridiculous. There should be no delay for a simple government service.

 

[Brischera]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

the problem, aside from their 'cause' is hopeless, is if she doesn't argue "religious freedom" she has absolutely nothing else to stand on. I don't mean in terms of being a bigot, but that the law has already given down its unambiguous mandate. What else can she possibly say?

So if she doesn't give out the licenses and no one else does there either, as she has tried to ensure, they admit that county is under a genuine theocracy

Which of course, in reality it always has been, and the same goes for the rest of the country for most of its history (over many issues). It's just that a couple years ago, the bigots in kentucky and the other 30 ish states could argue "hey it's the law" and deny or refuse to answer the reasons behind *why* it was the law

But now they need to use that motive - religion - as an official defense in court, so that their talibornagain plan for world dominion is stripped bare for all to see

Since this strategy has only in the past 2 months started not to work, they been instantly transformed from the oppressors to, in their delusion, the persecuted - ex: mike huckabee calling this one bitch's 3 day jail stint "the criminalization of christianity"

I can guarantee there's been gay people who've spent *way* longer than 3 days in jail, at the hands of christianity. This is merely the beginning of the end of theocratic government in america, only they hate homosexuals so much they can't see the difference

I imagine the KKK started to claim persecution as well when suddenly the southern juries could no longer acquit them for obvious murder and destruction. There is no limit to the fanaticism attached to the mentality of being superior to another group

Im surprised there has not been more rhetoric surrounding her vacation in Bar Island.

 

[Brischera]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

We do live in an immediate gratification society don't we? What's more important to you? Rights or expedience?

Who said they are mutually exclusive?

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

We do live in an immediate gratification society don't we? What's more important to you? Rights or expedience?

Both, and they have a right to get legally married. She does not have any right to a religious exemption from doing certain aspects of her job being an elected representative of the government, especially not when she is preventing others from doing the job as well.

 

[matchlight]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

The lawyer is representing her for free as part of his own bias agenda. He only really takes these sort of cases.

Protecting First Amendment rights is now a "bias agenda?" If so, there are a hell of a lot of lawyers with that same agenda--thank God. The proponents of another agenda--the homosexual agenda--are in the habit of tarring anyone who dares disagree with them as a bigot. The majority in Obergefell, whose members are some of the leading proponents of that agenda, implied that time and again. As Chief Justice Roberts remarked, "Perhaps the most discouraging aspect of today’s decision is the extent to which the majority feels compelled to sully those on the other side of the debate."

And as Justice Alito noted in his dissenting opinion,

Today’s decision usurps the constitutional right of the people to decide whether to keep or alter the traditional understanding of marriage. The decision will also have other important consequences. It will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy. In the course of its opinion, the majority compares traditional marriage laws to laws that denied equal treatment for African-Americans and women. The implications of this analogy will be exploited by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent.

Perhaps recognizing how its reasoning may be used, the majority attempts, toward the end of its opinion, to reassure those who oppose same-sex marriage that their rights of conscience will be protected. We will soon see whether this proves to be true. I assume that those who cling to old beliefs will be able to whisper their thoughts in the recesses of their homes, but if they repeat those views in public, they will risk being labeled as bigots and treated as such by governments, employers, and schools.

 

[Crosscheck]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

We do live in an immediate gratification society don't we? What's more important to you? Rights or expedience?

Getting a marriage license is not immediate gratification. Running off to Las Vegas or Reno to get married is immediate gratification.

Lot of these families may have planned wedding ceremonies with churches reserved and family members making plans for the occasion.

But her right to make her dictator trumps their rights.