Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail[W:228]

[Taylor]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

name that Chief Justice, born in Alabama, son of a former chief justice?

Benjamin Saffold wasn't a chief justice, but was the son of a former chief justice, Reuben Saffold.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

What I know is that there is zero evidence of anything other than a tiny number of executions due to sodomy. For example, there is only one known execution in the entire 18th century - a slave who was executed for "forceable buggery."

I don't see what any of this has to do with the reconstruction era.

Than death? Can't say that I disagree.

In that time period, it never meant "same sex relations." It meant anal sex, pure and simple. It made no difference if the recipient was male, female, or animal. Forced sodomy is rape by definition, except in cases where the recipient happens to be a dog or a goat.

And you're wrong. Rape was listed separately. They were not referring to forced sodomy and they did not give two ****s if a married man and woman were having anal sex. Jefferson specifically mentions that women who were found to be sodomites should have a hole put through her nose. How the hell is a woman of that era going to force a man to be involved in sodomy? And we have evidence that the people who were considered homosexual were involuntarily committed, including "treated" for decades after the Civil War (which is about the time when psychology actually began to really gain traction as a study).

 

[Taylor]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

And you're wrong. Rape was listed separately. They were not referring to forced sodomy and they did not give two ****s if a married man and woman were having anal sex.

Who is this "they" you refer to? Can you provide evidence of a single case in the entire history of our nation where someone was executed simply for having anal sex with another man?

Jefferson specifically mentions that women who were found to be sodomites should have a hole put through her nose. How the hell is a woman of that era going to force a man to be involved in sodomy?

No, what Jefferson did was submit a bill that stated, "Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half diameter at the least," which, if anything, blows up your "they did not give two ****s if a married man and woman were having anal sex" comment.

And we have evidence that the people who were considered homosexual were involuntarily committed, including "treated" for decades after the Civil War (which is about the time when psychology actually began to really gain traction as a study).

By all means, cite the evidence. When was the very first homosexual involuntarily committed?

You started off by implying that in the wake of the 14th amendment, people who were gay couldn't challenge laws on that basis the way that interracial couples could because they had to fear for their lives. Yet, we have proof of thousands upon thousands of blacks being executed in this country up until that time, and here I'm asking you to provide evidence of a single case where someone was executed simply for being gay.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Who is this "they" you refer to? Can you provide evidence of a single case in the entire history of our nation where someone was executed simply for having anal sex with another man?

No, what Jefferson did was submit a bill that stated, "Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half diameter at the least," which, if anything, blows up your "they did not give two ****s if a married man and woman were having anal sex" comment.

By all means, cite the evidence. When was the very first homosexual involuntarily committed?

You started off by implying that in the wake of the 14th amendment, people who were gay couldn't challenge laws on that basis the way that interracial couples could because they had to fear for their lives. Yet, we have proof of thousands upon thousands of blacks being executed in this country up until that time, and here I'm asking you to provide evidence of a single case where someone was executed simply for being gay.

What kind of records do you think were kept back in the 1800s? They weren't that extensive. Hell, to get divorced, all a person really had to do was leave and go to another state, like somewhere out west. You really weren't divorced, but who would know? Honestly, it wasn't like there was a reliable form of communication, let alone pictures of people.

DavidMixner.com - Live From Hell's Kitchen

The difficulty in documenting so much of this history is that most of the records, history and data have been destroyed. Families were often adamant about not leaving any trace of the overwhelming shame of having a homosexual in the family and they often erased the gay relative's presence on earth. Many individuals who were terrorized died in the institutions or were made mentally disabled with an inability to recall. Or unable because of their torture to share their journal.

The Influence of Society on Queer Identity Development and Classifica?

Laws criminalizing homosexual behavior: 1860 to the 1960s

"1641: Sodomy became a capital crime in Massachusetts, but only between males."

Despite your continued insistence otherwise, sodomy included oral sex. Most places only cared about sodomy between those of the same sex.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Benjamin Saffold wasn't a chief justice, but was the son of a former chief justice, Reuben Saffold.

Ah yes 'scalywag' Safford... unionist, a very rare bird in Alabama, the exception to a rule. Nice CON game, let's explore the 'unthinkable' timeline.

The Burns case you cite as an example of enlightened Southern minds in the Defeated 'Dirty' South... It involved the arrest of a Justice of the Peace for conducting an interracial marriage. He was let off...

However EVERY case of the married couple being on trial for interracial marriage was SUCCESSFULLY prosecuted! :shock:

Let's throw in the penalty for adultery- if the parties were of different races was a felony and within their race a 100 dollar fine... :doh

The 'enlightened' Southern Court didn't even take it's own ruling seriously!!!! Well when mixed couples were concerned anyways...

So the CON game fails again, it was unthinkable to 99.9% of the South if a Justice was concerned and to 100% of the South when the defendants were mixed race... :2wave:

 

[wolfsgirl]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

For the woman that claimed that she "didn't want to be in the spotlight" she is sure a media whore. This morning on GMA, tonight an hour with Megan Kelly.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

What kind of records do you think were kept back in the 1800s? They weren't that extensive. Hell, to get divorced, all a person really had to do was leave and go to another state, like somewhere out west. You really weren't divorced, but who would know? Honestly, it wasn't like there was a reliable form of communication, let alone pictures of people.

DavidMixner.com - Live From Hell's Kitchen



The Influence of Society on Queer Identity Development and Classifica?

Laws criminalizing homosexual behavior: 1860 to the 1960s

"1641: Sodomy became a capital crime in Massachusetts, but only between males."

Having spent 100s of hours studying family history, I have a very good idea of what sort of records were kept. Executions are certainly the sort of thing you'd find documented in newspapers, and there's a wealth of those that have survived.

I take it that your shift to this argument is proof that you weren't able to find even a single case of someone being executed simply because they had consensual sodomy with a partner.

Despite your continued insistence otherwise, sodomy included oral sex. Most places only cared about sodomy between those of the same sex.

Nope. Why not do some actual research before making such claims???

Oral sex didn't become a big deal until after reconstruction. The first state to include it in their definition of sodomy was Pennsylvania, and that didn't happen until around 1880 or so.

Before that time there was a grand total of ZERO cases brought to trial regarding oral sex. There were a whopping four cases between 1880 and 1900, two of which were thrown out specifically because oral sex did not fall under the traditional definition of sodomy.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Having spent 100s of hours studying family history, I have a very good idea of what sort of records were kept. Executions are certainly the sort of thing you'd find documented in newspapers, and there's a wealth of those that have survived.

I take it that your shift to this argument is proof that you weren't able to find even a single case of someone being executed simply because they had consensual sodomy with a partner.

Nope. Why not do some actual research before making such claims???

Oral sex didn't become a big deal until after reconstruction. The first state to include it in their definition of sodomy was Pennsylvania, and that didn't happen until around 1880 or so.

Before that time there was a grand total of ZERO cases brought to trial regarding oral sex. There were a whopping four cases between 1880 and 1900, two of which were thrown out specifically because oral sex did not fall under the traditional definition of sodomy.

There is absolutely no way that you know these things. For one thing, we took our definition of sodomy from England, which included oral sex within theirs. That was in one of those links I provided. You have yet to provide any evidence that they regarded man/woman sodomy in the same way they did same sex sodomy. Nor have you shown anything to support most of your contentions. "I have done family research" is not evidence that there were few records.

Another of those links provided also mentions that no, records were not extensively kept back in that time, even of executions, but especially when it involved someone who was "a sodomite" (as in same sex, at least a man anyway), which was seen as a shame to families that they would prefer to completely wipe out, including their existence. So they could easily be removed from family documents. In fact, there were over a thousand newspapers around the country by 1830, however they had various focuses. And there were many more cities and towns, all of which got to dispense their own justice.

There are also records that show that people were executed for "sodomy-buggery-beastiality", listed as a separate offense from rape.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/ESPYyear.pdf

And there are many people who we know of being executed, but have no idea what their crime was.

 

[Bodi]

You're just clueless. Your Constitution, your protections, are being eviscerated before your eyes, and you have no idea.

OK Then...

 

[donsutherland1]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

I guess I don't see how changing the form to say notary public rather than deputy clerk strips him of anything. Licenses are being issued by a deputy clerk (as required) whether or not it identifies him as such on the license.

Don't know that the changes to the form (or more precisely, her actions) are going to be acceptable to the judge, but I imagine a legal version of something similar will be coming early next year when the legislature convenes.

It changes things, because the County provides such licenses, not any notary public. If any notary public could issue such licenses that would be different, but that's not the case anywhere in the U.S.

 

[year2late]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Although I do think she should be issuing the licenses or quit....I do understand she is trying to hold to her beliefs.

Where she loses all compassion from me is when she tries to make sure the licenses are not issued by her office at all. That jumps from not doing something you feel is against your religion to imposing your religious views on others.

Kim needs to get ready for being the Democrat Darling of CPAC. Anyone want to make bets on when she will start profiting with her book deals and speaking engagements?:lamo

2015 Values Voter Summit

Did I call it right?

Next stop CPAC.

Anybody want to bet she already has been connected with a ghost writer?

 

[wolfsgirl]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

2015 Values Voter Summit

Did I call it right?

Next stop CPAC.

Anybody want to bet she already has been connected with a ghost writer?

So much for her claim that she "didn't want to be in the spotlight"

 

[Brischera]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

For the woman that claimed that she "didn't want to be in the spotlight" she is sure a media whore. This morning on GMA, tonight an hour with Megan Kelly.

She and Cosby share a common bridge of guilt and projection because just as he made racist speeches as misdirection for raping women she has taken her position out of guilt for the many failed marriages that violate some of the most basic issues of marriage in the New Testament. Since she failed in her own marriages she somehow believes she can find redemption by taking a position that is not found in any bible, ignores what Jesus said about not forcing their views on others, and ignores the oaths of her office as well as the Constitution. You are 100% correct she has become an attention whore.

 

[Brischera]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

2015 Values Voter Summit

Did I call it right?

Next stop CPAC.

Anybody want to bet she already has been connected with a ghost writer?

Kim Davis is a Republican. I almost vomited when I read she switched.

 

[year2late]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Kim Davis is a Republican. I almost vomited when I read she switched.

I breathed a sigh of relief.

 

[winston53660]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Kim Davis is a Republican. I almost vomited when I read she switched.

I honestly don't think she has the mental capacity to understand any kind of abstract ideas involved in political ideology.

 

[Cephus]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

I honestly don't think she has the mental capacity to understand any kind of abstract ideas involved in political ideology.

She doesn't. She switched because all of her supporters are on the other side.