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Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free [W:11]

RDS

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While in the U.S. and many other countries child sex predators are arrested, in U.K. a judge calls the victim a sexual predator.
Anti-sexual abuse campaigners, among them the author who successfully put Jane Austen on the £10 note before having to fend off the resulting torrent of online rape threats have reacted angrily after it emerged that a man who admitted having sex with a 13-year-old girl walked free from court; while his victim was described by the judge and prosecution as sexually “predatory”.
Neil Wilson, 41, faces having his eight-month suspended jail sentence reviewed after the Attorney General Dominic Grieve agreed to look into the case yesterday. And the Crown Prosecution Service was forced to admit that its own prosecutor acted “inappropriately” when he placed a portion of the responsibility upon the victim in court.
Campaigners and charities demanded answers after the “victim blaming” language came to light following weeks of campaigning to better represent and protect women in Britain. Following complaints, the Attorney General’s office will consider whether or not to ask the Court of Appeal to decide if the sentence given to Wilson was unduly lenient.
Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free after admitting sex with girl - Crime - UK - The Independent
 

Mr X

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

What are you wanting to debate here?
 

MaggieD

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

While in the U.S. and many other countries child sex predators are arrested, in U.K. a judge calls the victim a sexual predator. Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free after admitting sex with girl - Crime - UK - The Independent
That's just sick. It sounds as if the court thought she was precocious. Too damned bad. This is really hard to believe. I think the Brits just jammed a crowbar into the wheels of justice. Shame on 'em.

The prosecutor should lose his job.
 

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

and once a girl has become a woman, like when she's old enough to attend an university, things can get even worse

Add USC to growing ‘Colleges Making Rapes Worse’ list

It’s as if colleges and universities across the country are competing to see who can handle sex crimes the most poorly.

Ask 21-year-old Ari Mostov, who says a fellow student raped her at the University of Southern California.

When the screenwriting major went to the campus authorities, she says they told her pursuing the case with the LAPD would mean “tough detectives” and name-calling in court. Plus, it’s not like Mostov “technically” was raped anyway because “he didn’t orgasm.”

“The school did everything it could to dissuade me from talking about being raped and asking for help,” she told ABCNews.com.
 

PirateMk1

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

That's just sick. It sounds as if the court thought she was precocious. Too damned bad. This is really hard to believe. I think the Brits just jammed a crowbar into the wheels of justice. Shame on 'em.

The prosecutor should lose his job.
There may be more to the story. Something don't smell right. Its highly unusual for a prosecutor not to add a notch to their belt.
 

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

We try 13-year-olds for murder so it's not impossible that her behavior was "predatory" and she did look older than her true age? Regardless, he should have kept his pants on. They will monitor him it says, he's just not going to jail. This is why we have courts kids, to try and figure out just what to do about this mess we call life. Don't start looking around for wood to build crosses and start fires with. We have a whole lot of priests who didn't get a come on an in way, shape, or form doing no time at all and under no law enforcement supervision.
 

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

Not much different than the kid in Florida getting killed by whats his name. That also turned into blaming the victim.
 

Fisher

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

There may be more to the story. Something don't smell right. Its highly unusual for a prosecutor not to add a notch to their belt.
Well the article makes it clear that they felt that the girl looked older than 13 and was the person pursuing the encounter so it may depend on whether or not he knew she was underage. I had a cousin once removed who was 13 when I was in college and she looked way older than most of the girls my age. I heard rumors she was pretty slutty with older guys even at 13 which creeped me out. She ended up marrying a grown man who was like 30 when she was still in her teens with her with her parents' consent. Her sister ended up marrying a senior citizen aged man when she was in her late teens. That whole branch of my family tree never fails to surprise me to the things they will steep to if they think there is easy money to be had.
 

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

While in the U.S. and many other countries child sex predators are arrested, in U.K. a judge calls the victim a sexual predator. Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free after admitting sex with girl - Crime - UK - The Independent
Thats quite the Broad brush to paint with. This happend in this case its not like all cases from here to end of time will be handled like this and the UK Goverment is already investagateing to see if they were too lenient on the the man. (Besides arn't there rules against haveing do over trails becuase the public didn't like how it turned out?)
"Sir? I know we let you off but the public found out and was ticked off. Could you come back in next week so we can change the sentance to something worse. Would you agree to 5 to 10 years?"
Appeals Lawyer would have a laugh all the way to the bank with that.
(I am assuming British law has those type of lawyers/laws)
 

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

Not much different than the kid in Florida getting killed by whats his name. That also turned into blaming the victim.
Every time I think you have written the most stupid thing you've ever written, you manage to outdo yourself.

Congratulations.
 

Zyphlin

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

Not much different than the kid in Florida getting killed by whats his name. That also turned into blaming the victim.
Moderator's Warning:
Going to cut this off right now....attempts by anyone to latch onto this to derail into a Zimmerman/Martin thread is going to get the boot quick
 

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Anyone who has actually spent time with teenagers (especially not their own children) will know that the idea of a 13-year old girl being "sexually predatory" is perfectly viable. I understand the legal difficulties such facts can introduce but I don't think they're best resolved by simply pretending they don't exist. Maybe we should be asking ourselves why we have sexually predatory 13-year olds in the first place.

I'm not convinced it should be any mitigation to the offence but I do think a lot of the knee-jerk reactions to this are imagining a very different situation to what is likely to have been.
 

CanadaJohn

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

I don't want to comment on this story because I don't know the details - on first impression, it seems odd and goes against my sensibilities.

That said, our children are being forced to grow up too damn soon these days. They are exposed to almost explicit sex on a regular basis on TV, over the internet, in teen magazines, etc. etc. and they are now starting to be bombarded with advanced sex education teachings in schools.

There was a time when "Lolita" was scandalous and now you can find any number of little Lolitas at any local shopping mall and many elementary school playgrounds.
 

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Anyone who has actually spent time with teenagers (especially not their own children) will know that the idea of a 13-year old girl being "sexually predatory" is perfectly viable. I understand the legal difficulties such facts can introduce but I don't think they're best resolved by simply pretending they don't exist. Maybe we should be asking ourselves why we have sexually predatory 13-year olds in the first place.

I'm not convinced it should be any mitigation to the offence but I do think a lot of the knee-jerk reactions to this are imagining a very different situation to what is likely to have been.
While some 13 year old girls are sexually active, I'm not convinced that a 13 year old girl would be a sexual predator on a 41 year old man.
 

HonestJoe

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While some 13 year old girls are sexually active, I'm not convinced that a 13 year old girl would be a sexual predator on a 41 year old man.
I don't need convincing, I've seen it. Not hugely common and half the time they think they're just "teasing" but it happens.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Anyone who has actually spent time with teenagers (especially not their own children) will know that the idea of a 13-year old girl being "sexually predatory" is perfectly viable. I understand the legal difficulties such facts can introduce but I don't think they're best resolved by simply pretending they don't exist. Maybe we should be asking ourselves why we have sexually predatory 13-year olds in the first place.

I'm not convinced it should be any mitigation to the offence but I do think a lot of the knee-jerk reactions to this are imagining a very different situation to what is likely to have been.
Ah - well - it might be perfectly viable - but heavens help me if someone whose 41 cannot control themselves if a 13 year old 'comes on to them'

Because that's what they're suggesting - he was privy to her wily ways :roll: He was helpless and unable to defend himself when she threw her tiny body at him! :roll: Give me A BREAK.

I don't think so = ergo = she's NOT the perpetrator, he is. It would take a lot of evidence OTHER than the 'I'm a 41 year old accused of sexual abuse' individual's *accusation* against the person for me to believe otherwise.

Responses like this are why Britain has this huge, grotesque, growing issue where their laws and judgement are becoming illogical and wonky (to put it lightly) - and they want to know why their country's going to hell in a hand-basket? . . .It leaves me being thankful that I live in the US where we PROSECUTE sexual abusing ADULTS because, no matter what happened, they are the ones who DO KNOW BETTER.
 

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Ah - well - it might be perfectly viable - but heavens help me if someone whose 41 cannot control themselves if a 13 year old 'comes on to them'

Because that's what they're suggesting - he was privy to her wily ways :roll: He was helpless and unable to defend himself when she threw her tiny body at him! :roll: Give me A BREAK.

I don't think so = ergo = she's NOT the perpetrator, he is. It would take a lot of evidence OTHER than the 'I'm a 41 year old accused of sexual abuse' individual's *accusation* against the person for me to believe otherwise.

Responses like this are why Britain has this huge, grotesque, growing issue where their laws and judgement are becoming illogical and wonky (to put it lightly) - and they want to know why their country's going to hell in a hand-basket? . . .It leaves me being thankful that I live in the US where we PROSECUTE sexual abusing ADULTS because, no matter what happened, they are the ones who DO KNOW BETTER.
I'm amazed at a number of posts in this thread. A 13-year-old is a child. This is no different than saying, "She asked for it."

You guys? Shame on you.
 

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My son is 13.

There is not a single girl in his class who could even be remotely mistaken for an 18 year old, and even if this girl were 18, a 40 something year old man has no business with her.
 

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I'm amazed at a number of posts in this thread. A 13-year-old is a child. This is no different than saying, "She asked for it."

You guys? Shame on you.
Exactly.
 

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I'm amazed at a number of posts in this thread. A 13-year-old is a child. This is no different than saying, "She asked for it."

You guys? Shame on you.
No she is not a child. She was sexually active, and looked much older than age 13. Now this guy could have not known she was under age but in this case he admits that he knew, which shows how stupid he is. That alone should have gotten him a fine for being stupid. But regardless I believe she made the first advances.. the article is not clear on this point.

I am fully against rape, but I am also equally against calling everything rape just because the sexual encounter breaks some morality law. Rape should be about forcing someone into sexual relations, and not having consensual sex and being under some sort of age limit or having sex and then regretting you did the dirty deed.

Case in point, there is a case going on in the US at the moment, which has gotten some media exposure over here. A woman starts a relationship with another woman.. one is aged 18 other is 14. The parents of the 14 year old goes to the police to stop the relationship because they dont approve of it (gay hating morons basically) and the 18 year old is arrested for rape and if convicted will be a registered sex offender. The relationship was consensual.. they were in love. Sorry but that is utter bs as well is it not?

That is why I say the present laws are utter crap. Take this 13 year old girl.. she knew what she was doing.. she was sexually active. But anyone having sex with her, regardless of age, would have according to the law be considered a rapist. What if the guy was 15? It would still technically under the law be rape, and I have no doubt what so ever that had it happened in the US, that the 15 year old would have been thrown in jail..since it has happened before.

No punish true rapists.. and in this case there are plenty of arguments that it was not rape.. I just saw an interview with a woman against child rape on TV.. and her arguments were horrible. She kept going back to the "she was only 13 and he was 41!" argument, totally ignoring that she was sexually active (a so what comment, followed by her standard comment kept coming on this question), and that she was leading him on, and there was no force what so ever involved.

To me it looks more and more like a bunch of older women, some who were actually abused at one point, are hot and bothered that a girl of age 13 is more sexually free and open to sex than they ever will be because of some sort of morality check in the society they have grown up in. They should focus their energy on actual cases of child abuse and there are plenty of them out there.

Also had this been a 13 year old boy banging a 41 year old woman, then I doubt there would have been much outcry and quite a few high fives for a job well done for the 13 year old. Doubt it would even have gone to trial in the UK or anywhere in Europe.
 

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Ah - well - it might be perfectly viable - but heavens help me if someone whose 41 cannot control themselves if a 13 year old 'comes on to them'
Nobody is saying he couldn't or shouldn't have. Nobody is saying he shouldn't be punished for his crime. I still believe there is a viable distinction between what the statement implies this case was about and a case of grooming or the victim being grabbed of the street and down a dark alley. There is also, arguably more significantly, a social aspect the attacks on the statement being made could be seen to be wilfully covering up.

Responses like this are why Britain has this huge, grotesque, growing issue where their laws and judgement are becoming illogical and wonky (to put it lightly) - and they want to know why their country's going to hell in a hand-basket? . . .It leaves me being thankful that I live in the US where we PROSECUTE sexual abusing ADULTS because, no matter what happened, they are the ones who DO KNOW BETTER.
Lets put the ignorant nationalist hated on hold please. You're too good a poster to get banned.
 

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No she is not a child. She was sexually active, and looked much older than age 13. Now this guy could have not known she was under age but in this case he admits that he knew, which shows how stupid he is. That alone should have gotten him a fine for being stupid. But regardless I believe she made the first advances.. the article is not clear on this point.

I am fully against rape, but I am also equally against calling everything rape just because the sexual encounter breaks some morality law. Rape should be about forcing someone into sexual relations, and not having consensual sex and being under some sort of age limit or having sex and then regretting you did the dirty deed.

Case in point, there is a case going on in the US at the moment, which has gotten some media exposure over here. A woman starts a relationship with another woman.. one is aged 18 other is 14. The parents of the 14 year old goes to the police to stop the relationship because they dont approve of it (gay hating morons basically) and the 18 year old is arrested for rape and if convicted will be a registered sex offender. The relationship was consensual.. they were in love. Sorry but that is utter bs as well is it not?

That is why I say the present laws are utter crap. Take this 13 year old girl.. she knew what she was doing.. she was sexually active. But anyone having sex with her, regardless of age, would have according to the law be considered a rapist. What if the guy was 15? It would still technically under the law be rape, and I have no doubt what so ever that had it happened in the US, that the 15 year old would have been thrown in jail..since it has happened before.

No punish true rapists.. and in this case there are plenty of arguments that it was not rape.. I just saw an interview with a woman against child rape on TV.. and her arguments were horrible. She kept going back to the "she was only 13 and he was 41!" argument, totally ignoring that she was sexually active (a so what comment, followed by her standard comment kept coming on this question), and that she was leading him on, and there was no force what so ever involved.

To me it looks more and more like a bunch of older women, some who were actually abused at one point, are hot and bothered that a girl of age 13 is more sexually free and open to sex than they ever will be because of some sort of morality check in the society they have grown up in. They should focus their energy on actual cases of child abuse and there are plenty of them out there.

Also had this been a 13 year old boy banging a 41 year old woman, then I doubt there would have been much outcry and quite a few high fives for a job well done for the 13 year old. Doubt it would even have gone to trial in the UK or anywhere in Europe.
Disgusting. Everything in your post sucks wind. That 41-year-old is a predator. A pedophile. He belongs in jail. And here in the United States? He would be.
 

nota bene

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No she is not a child. She was sexually active, and looked much older than age 13. Now this guy could have not known she was under age but in this case he admits that he knew, which shows how stupid he is. That alone should have gotten him a fine for being stupid. But regardless I believe she made the first advances.. the article is not clear on this point.
Yes, 13 is a child. And it's called "statuatory rape" for a reason. Even if this girl came on to the guy, as the adult he's still responsible for his bad judgment. What kind of man is "led on" by a 13-year old? A pedophile who can't control his impulses, that's who.


To me it looks more and more like a bunch of older women, some who were actually abused at one point, are hot and bothered that a girl of age 13 is more sexually free and open to sex than they ever will be because of some sort of morality check in the society they have grown up in. They should focus their energy on actual cases of child abuse and there are plenty of them out there.

Also had this been a 13 year old boy banging a 41 year old woman, then I doubt there would have been much outcry and quite a few high fives for a job well done for the 13 year old. Doubt it would even have gone to trial in the UK or anywhere in Europe.
Well, no doubt if this were a 13-year old boy, some would be congratulating him. Elsewhere at DP there's an ongoing thread in which at least one man has posted that he's going to teach his sons to grab all the poon he can but to always keep it wrapped.

But you're fantasizing if you think that adult women are simply jealous of the sexual freedom "enjoyed" by this 13-year old girl because they were deprived of such licentiousness themselves.

As a former 13-year old girl myself--a child--and the mother of a former 13-year old daughter--also then a child--the sexual exploitation of kids makes me angry, not resentful. That's a pretty sick little theory you have here.
 

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Re: Judge calls victim, 13, a 'sexual predator': Outcry as man walks free

There may be more to the story. Something don't smell right. Its highly unusual for a prosecutor not to add a notch to their belt.
What he said.

Something's not right here. If it had been the defense saying this, I could maybe chuck it down to lawyers stooping to new lows to defend their client. But this was the prosecution. Very weird...
 

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Yes, 13 is a child. And it's called "statuatory rape" for a reason. Even if this girl came on to the guy, as the adult he's still responsible for his bad judgment. What kind of man is "led on" by a 13-year old? A pedophile who can't control his impulses, that's who.
And if that 13-year old looked like a 18 year old? Yes this guy admits he knew, but what if he had not known?

Well, no doubt if this were a 13-year old boy, some would be congratulating him. Elsewhere at DP there's an ongoing thread in which at least one man has posted that he's going to teach his sons to grab all the poon he can but to always keep it wrapped.

But you're fantasizing if you think that adult women are simply jealous of the sexual freedom "enjoyed" by this 13-year old girl because they were deprived of such licentiousness themselves.

As a former 13-year old girl myself--a child--and the mother of a former 13-year old daughter--also then a child--the sexual exploitation of kids makes me angry, not resentful. That's a pretty sick little theory you have here.
Well you should have heard the interview then I just saw, and seen the comments from some of these women who are "fighting sexual exploitation of kids". Choosing this case, where the victim was not only sexual active but classed as a predator by the courts.. well not the brightest move if you ask me to use this case to further their cause.

Look I am fully against child sexual exploitation and anyone who does so.. forcing kids to have sex.. should be castrated frankly. But like it or not, kids grow up in different paces, some mature early, some much later. When the relationship is consensual, then it should not be rape. I admit that the age is the key.. when are children becoming sexual interested and active. As a parent that is at age 18.. if not age 40, but in reality it happens in the 12 to 15 old age bracket, at least for the interest part and that is something we just have to live with. In this case, the girl was sexually active at an early age, without being forced. Deal with it.. it happens more than most people would like to admit.

The law should not punish a person for having consensual sexual relationships with a person just because that person is under a certain age, which varies widely from country to country.. hell even US state to US state. This case would never have been reached the courts in Spain for example, where the age of consent is 13, if the relationship is consensual.

Also had this guy not been 41 and broken an morality clause in society for having sex/dating/marrying someone so much younger/older than yourself, then I would wager that there would be a whole other debate if at all. Had he been 17 or 18, would you call him a sexual predator and paedophile?

Yes this case has far more to do with morality and judgement from some well meaning activists, than actual law and justice.
 
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