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Japan wants an apology

Greetings, CJ. :2wave:

I don't understand why an apology from us is being asked for! They attacked us first at Pearl Harbor, and over 2400 people were killed! Did they expect us to just accept what they did? Unbelievably cheeky and incredibly stupid if they did, IMO! It's just sad that so many Japanese people that had nothing to do with their government's decision died as a result of their miscalculation! :2mad:

Good afternoon Lady P.

I don't get it either - then again, I don't get all the calls for apologies and reparations for Native North Americans and African Americans and Japanese internment and on and on and on. My tax dollars being demanded and provided for things I wasn't alive for or to approve or condone.
 
If he wanted to discuss actual issues, then why lie?

I don't know if he lied or not - lying implies an intent to deceive.

There are "officials" in Japan who've voiced a desire or expectation that the US would apologize. Back in 2010, when the US first looked to send its Ambassador as an official representative to the ceremonies, it was reported that one official voiced the following:

"I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect an apology," said Yasunari Fujimoto, secretary-general of the Japan Congress Against A- and H-Bombs.

Atomic Apology? U.S. to Send First Delegation to Hiroshima A-Bomb Memorial | Fox News

Saying "Japan wants apology" is not entirely false although it isn't representative of the link attached to the OP.
 
It's politically acceptable for Obama to apologise for Hiroshima and Obama only offers condolences to the Hiroshima victims. But the first visit by the acting US president is significant. My view is that Japan cannot force the US to apologise for the atomic bombing unless the country actually faces up to its wartime past such as the Bataan Death March (1942). Atrocities were committed by both sides of the conflict and human lives were meant to be sacrificed in a total war.
 
I largely agree, but Japan has formally apologized for their war crimes. I don't see why we shouldn't apologize for our war crimes. (And justified or not, dropping an atomic bomb on top of a civilian population chosen because it had such a high civilian population is, by definition, a war crime.)

It doesn't cost anyone anything for denouncing specific tactics used during war that were wrong. It's not like we lose the war, or like we're going to spend the next 40 years apologizing to Japan for every time we fire bombed their civilian populations.

Ending the war and saving potentially a million American lives is a war crime?

Bull ****.
 
I thought the point was linking an apology to President Obama's visit - the first visit by a sitting US President to the site of the bombing.

Only thing served by nit picking is to deflect from the real potential problem and the issue of an apology.

And here survivors say an apology would be "welcome" but ridding the world of Nukes would be better.
It is a democracy and people are free to speak their minds.

Much ado about nothing. OMG what is Obama going to do in Hiroshima- Well apologize of course -

Atomic bomb survivors: Obama apology nice, but priority is disarmament | Reuters
Japanese atomic bomb survivors say an apology from President Barack Obama for the U.S. bombing of Hiroshima would be welcome, but their priority is on ridding the world of all nuclear weapons forever.

Obama, who in 2009 was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize partly for making nuclear nonproliferation a centerpiece of his agenda, will on May 27 become the first incumbent U.S. president to visit Hiroshima, site of the world's first atomic bombing on Aug. 6, 1945.
 
Ending the war and saving potentially a million American lives is a war crime?

Bull ****.

You can win a way by murdering every civilian in a country. We could have wiped out the entire Japanese population, too. That would have saved millions of American lives, and guaranteed not a single American life would have been lost. Is that now suddenly not a war crime?
 
You can win a way by murdering every civilian in a country. We could have wiped out the entire Japanese population, too. That would have saved millions of American lives, and guaranteed not a single American life would have been lost. Is that now suddenly not a war crime?

Logical fallacy.

Reductio ad absurdum.
 
I don't know if he lied or not - lying implies an intent to deceive.

There are "officials" in Japan who've voiced a desire or expectation that the US would apologize. Back in 2010, when the US first looked to send its Ambassador as an official representative to the ceremonies, it was reported that one official voiced the following:

"I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect an apology," said Yasunari Fujimoto, secretary-general of the Japan Congress Against A- and H-Bombs.

Atomic Apology? U.S. to Send First Delegation to Hiroshima A-Bomb Memorial | Fox News

Saying "Japan wants apology" is not entirely false although it isn't representative of the link attached to the OP.

Saying Japan wants an apology would be like saying America wants to ban guns. There are a few who do, but not many. Also note that Fujimoto, from your source is and was not an official, just a repent active of a private group.
 
Logical fallacy.

Reductio ad absurdum.

Wrong, that's a false charge of fallacy. Which, ironically, is some what muddled up because I did, in fact, do what you're accusing me of, but reductio ad absurdum is not a fallacy, it's a logically valid argument. What you meant to accuse me of was the slippery slope fallacy. I did not commit that, however. I was merely pointing out why your reasoning would apply equally well to justifying mass genocide, and therefore your reasoning was suspect (via reductio ad absurdum).
 
Wrong, that's a false charge of fallacy. Which, ironically, is some what muddled up because I did, in fact, do what you're accusing me of, but reductio ad absurdum is not a fallacy, it's a logically valid argument. What you meant to accuse me of was the slippery slope fallacy. I did not commit that, however. I was merely pointing out why your reasoning would apply equally well to justifying mass genocide, and therefore your reasoning was suspect (via reductio ad absurdum).

Wrong.

Taking an example to an absurd level, such as suggesting that we could kill all Japanese and not lose a soldier (ridiculous), is the very definition of reductio ad absurdum.

Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"; pl.: reductiones ad absurdum), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin: "argument to absurdity", pl.: argumenta ad absurdum), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial, or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance
 
A-Bomb Survivors Want Obama to Meet, Apologize in Hiroshima - ABC News

So the japs want an apology for the nuclear bombs but are still unwilling to give one for pearl harbor.

Japan has made numerous apologies regarding its atrocities during World War II. It wouldn't ****ing kill us to admit that firebombing entire civilian populations was a humanitarian nightmare. In fact, the atomic attacks were sufficiently awful that we along with the rest of the world pretty much tacitly agreed that they should never ever ever happen again.

Here are a few apologies picked at random:

August 31, 1994: Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama said in a speech: "Japan's actions in a certain period of the past not only claimed numerous victims here in Japan but also left the peoples of neighboring Asia and elsewhere with scars that are painful even today. I am thus taking this opportunity to state my belief, based on my profound remorse for these acts of aggression, colonial rule, and the like caused such unbearable suffering and sorrow for so many people, that Japan's future path should be one of making every effort to build world peace in line with my no-war commitment. It is imperative for us Japanese to look squarely to our history with the peoples of neighboring Asia and elsewhere. Only with solid basis of mutual understanding and confidence that can be built through overcoming the pain on both sides, can we and the peoples of neighboring countries together clear up the future of Asia-Pacific.... On the issue of wartime 'comfort women,' which seriously stained the honor and dignity of many women, I would like to take this opportunity once again to express my profound and sincere remorse and apologies. With regard to this issue as well, I believe that one way of demonstrating such feelings of apologies and remorse is to work to further promote mutual understanding with the countries and areas concerned as well as to face squarely to the past and ensure that it is rightly conveyed to future generations. This initiative, in this sense, has been drawn up consistent with such belief" (Statement by Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama on the "Peace, Friendship, and Exchange Initiative").[22]

June 9, 1995: House of Representatives, National Diet of Japan passed a resolution stating: "On the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the end of World War II, this House offers its sincere condolences to those who fell in action and victims of wars and similar actions all over the world. Solemnly reflecting upon many instances of colonial rule and acts of aggression in the modern history of the world, and recognizing that Japan carried out those acts in the past, inflicting pain and suffering upon the peoples of other countries, especially in Asia, the Members of this House express a sense of deep remorse" (Resolution to renew the determination for peace on the basis of lessons learned from history).[23]

July 1995: Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama said in a statement: "The problem of the so-called wartime comfort women is one such scar, which, with the involvement of the Japanese military forces of the time, seriously stained the honor and dignity of many women. This is entirely inexcusable. I offer my profound apology to all those who, as wartime comfort women, suffered emotional and physical wounds that can never be closed" (Statement by Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama on the occasion of the establishment of the "Asian Women's Fund").[24]

August 15, 1995: Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama said in a statement: "During a certain period in the not-too-distant past, Japan, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly those of Asia. In the hope that no such mistake will be made in the future, I regard, in a spirit of humanity, these irrefutable facts of history, and express here once again my feelings of deep remorse and state my heartfelt apology" (Statement by Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama 'On the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the war's end').[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan#1990s
 
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What a great opportunity. Maybe they can start a website and have people offer their versions of an 'apology'.

Dear Japan...sorry your leaders were so slow on the uptick. Sorry you picked a fight with the wrong people. Sorry your leaders were so committed to your destruction that they didnt surrender after Hiroshima. Sad it come to pass but not sorry for dropping the bomb.

Not sure what exactly they want the US to apologize for.
 
Japan has made numerous apologies regarding its atrocities during World War II. It wouldn't ****ing kill us to admit that firebombing entire civilian populations was a humanitarian nightmare. In fact, the atomic attacks were sufficiently awful that we along with the rest of the world pretty much tacitly agreed that they should never ever ever happen again.

Here are a few apologies picked at random:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan#1990s
Nowhere there did see "Dear America...sorry for attacking Pearl Harbor".
 
Nowhere there did see "Dear America...sorry for attacking Pearl Harbor".

It would seem Emperor Hirohito may have done precisely that.

Emperor Hirohito let it be known to General MacArthur that he was prepared to apologize formally to General MacArthur for Japan's actions during World War II—including an apology for the December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor.[2]

Apology rebuffed

In one version of the formal apology, Emperor Hirohito, the Japanese monarch, is reported to have said to General MacArthur: "I come before you to offer myself to the judgment of the powers you represent, as one to bear sole responsibility for every political and military decision made and action taken by my people in the conduct of the war."[3]

In a second version of the formal apology, Patrick Lennox Tierney, claims that he was an eye-witness when the Emperor came to the Allied Supreme Commander's headquarters to present this apology. Tierney was in his office on the fifth floor of the Dai-Ichi Insurance Building in Tokyo. This was the same floor where MacArthur's suite was situated.[2] Tierney reported that when the emperor arrived, MacArthur refused to admit him or acknowledge him, and the pivotal moment passed.

Many years later, Tierney made an effort to explain his understanding of the significance of what he claimed he had personally witnessed: "Apology is a very important thing in Japan. [...] It was the rudest, crudest, most uncalled for thing I have ever witnessed in my life."[2] Whether true or not - issues which might have been addressed were allowed to remain open, and unanticipated consequences have unfolded across the decades since then.[4][5]
 
And here survivors say an apology would be "welcome" but ridding the world of Nukes would be better.
It is a democracy and people are free to speak their minds.

Much ado about nothing. OMG what is Obama going to do in Hiroshima- Well apologize of course -

Atomic bomb survivors: Obama apology nice, but priority is disarmament | Reuters

Anyone who says that disarmament is not a priority has some serious soul-searching to do, or they just don't care about anyone on the planet, let alone the planet itself.
Nuclear weapon possession should be treated like a war-crime in and of itself, you're basically holding the planet and civilization as we know it hostage.
Does anyone else besides maybe us two realize how ****ing crazy the notion in and of itself really is?
It's ****ing sad and disgusting is what it is.
 
It would seem Emperor Hirohito may have done precisely that.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/13/world/asia/japan-ww2-shinzo-abe.html

Lots have acknowledged deeds...but Ive still yet to see a direct apology for attacking the US @ Pearl Harbor. But its nice he wanted to take responsibility.

IMO...Japan doesnt owe us an apology. We dont owe them an apology. They tried to open a can of whupass and it ended up not working. Wars happen. Conquest happened. Every nation and border was established due to it.
 
I have a better idea.

How about the Japs coming to Pearl Harbor and thank us on bended knee that we didn't drop a third one.

Then we can all go out for pizza, beer and burgers. That's better than sushi, IMO. Maybe take 'em to a baseball game. They love baseball.
 
I largely agree, but Japan has formally apologized for their war crimes. I don't see why we shouldn't apologize for our war crimes. (And justified or not, dropping an atomic bomb on top of a civilian population chosen because it had such a high civilian population is, by definition, a war crime.)

It doesn't cost anyone anything for denouncing specific tactics used during war that were wrong. It's not like we lose the war, or like we're going to spend the next 40 years apologizing to Japan for every time we fire bombed their civilian populations.

Civilians producing weapons or anything that supports or prolong a war are fair game in my book. As far as I am concerned any city producing goods that support the military is a legitimate target. If the people of Hiroshima or Nagasaki were standing in the street waving a white flag and attempting to surrender then I think we owe them an apology.
 
There are of course people who fundamentally don't understand the importance and value of an apology. They will always see it as an act of prostration, but it really doesn't take much to understand it by simply turning it around. For my part, the value of an apology is simple to see, especially when I want it. It communicates the message that in spite of the wrong done, the personal responsible doesn't consider me an animal deserving of that treatment. It says, "You're more than simple organism with a barely evolved brain stem, what happened to you was wrong, you're a human being and you deserve to be treated according to basic human principles." Secondly, it communicates that the person giving the apology has evolved or bettered themselves in some way since the offense was committed. Without that, there is every reason to assume that the offending person is as bad now as they were at the time of the offense. In light of that it's easy to understand the value of the apology and why it is so healing.

Yes, there are of course those who demand an apologies as a power play, and that's obviously unfortunate. But just because there are manipulative assholes that behave in this manner doesn't mean we should toss decency aside and act like assholes ourselves.
 
I'm sorry Japan. I'm sorry that we didn't have the bombs a few years earlier to keep you from brutalizing most every western Pacific population.
 
Civilians producing weapons or anything that supports or prolong a war are fair game in my book. As far as I am concerned any city producing goods that support the military is a legitimate target. If the people of Hiroshima or Nagasaki were standing in the street waving a white flag and attempting to surrender then I think we owe them an apology.

Actually I'm curious: are civilians who work in, say, a munitions factory, fair game for destruction? I honestly don't know where the line is drawn by the geneva conventions as far as the bombing of civilian targets is concerned.
 
There are of course people who fundamentally don't understand the importance and value of an apology. They will always see it as an act of prostration, but it really doesn't take much to understand it by simply turning it around. For my part, the value of an apology is simple to see, especially when I want it. It communicates the message that in spite of the wrong done, the personal responsible doesn't consider me an animal deserving of that treatment. It says, "You're more than simple organism with a barely evolved brain stem, what happened to you was wrong, you're a human being and you deserve to be treated according to basic human principles." Secondly, it communicates that the person giving the apology has evolved or bettered themselves in some way since the offense was committed. Without that, there is every reason to assume that the offending person is as bad now as they were at the time of the offense. In light of that it's easy to understand the value of the apology and why it is so healing.

Yes, there are of course those who demand an apologies as a power play, and that's obviously unfortunate. But just because there are manipulative assholes that behave in this manner doesn't mean we should toss decency aside and act like assholes ourselves.

The US did no wrong.
 
I have a better idea.

How about the Japs coming to Pearl Harbor and thank us on bended knee that we didn't drop a third one.

Then we can all go out for pizza, beer and burgers. That's better than sushi, IMO. Maybe take 'em to a baseball game. They love baseball.

I'm sorry Japan. I'm sorry that we didn't have the bombs a few years earlier to keep you from brutalizing most every western Pacific population.

Reminds me of an old joke.

Q: Why did we drop two nuclear bombs on Japan?
A: That's all we had.
 
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