It's Your People & Your Policy Yet You Want My Gun!!!!!

[ttwtt78640]

The casualties in your "almost 700 mass shootings" are included in the stats, not in addition to.

Yep, but we are supposed to see those “almost 700 mass shootings” as being a huge part of the 10K to 80K (90K total?) annual gunshot victims.

There is no getting around the fact that guns (mainly handguns) are the weapon of choice in US homicides, but…

The U.S. murder rate in 2020 was 42% lower than the suicide rate (13.5 deaths per 100,000 people) and 71% below the mortality rate for drug overdose (27.1 deaths per 100,000 people, as of the third quarter of 2020), the CDC data shows. As was the case with murders, drug overdoses increased sharply in 2020.

What we know about the increase in U.S. murders in 2020

The U.S. murder rate rose 30% between 2019 and 2020 – the largest single-year increase in more than a century.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Daddyo]

Why don't you put this in that debate thread?

I waited to long. It's thousands of posts ago and I'm not 100 percent sure what thread it's in.

To me it works well in a stand alone thread. It is about guns and gun control. It's true. When you have those seeking to ban guns also responsible for the soft punishment of existing laws which allows the very violence they seek to stop, it demonstrates either ignorance, hypocricy, or an evil agenda. It's important IMO to expose it so that we can understand which of the above three it is.

 

[Rich2018]

OK, but one should also consider that an “assault rifle” ban (if well enforced) would save fewer lives than a knife ban (if equally well enforced).

Except a knife ban (like a car ban) will have negative consequences and they're needed, indeed are pretty much essential (just like cars)
Whereas (privately owned) guns, with few exceptions*, are not

*Like people employed as game wardens and use firearms for pest control.

The problem is not tool (or weapon) availability - it is that criminals, allowed to roam freely among us, will often obtain and abuse tools (or weapons).

Yes
The simple fact is that the current free supply of guns in the USA, De Facto arms criminals as well
I fully accept that the vast majority of gun owners will never abuse their guns, but you can't supply them guns without supply every criminal in the country.

Don’t bother with the knives have other (non-criminal) uses nonsense, since “assault rifles” also have other (non-criminal) uses.

Privately owned assault rifles have no non-criminal uses.

 

[Rucker61]

Privately owned assault rifles have no non-criminal uses.

Presuming you mean "assault weapons", ie, AR-15s, you're simply wrong. Assuming you mean actual assault rifles, you're still wrong.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Except a knife ban (like a car ban) will have negative consequences and they're needed, indeed are pretty much essential (just like cars)
Whereas (privately owned) guns, with few exceptions*, are not

*Like people employed as game wardens and use firearms for pest control.

You have (unilaterally?) decided that banning guns (with a few notable exceptions) would be OK, but that would require amending the Constitution. As I noted, and data confirms, only banning “assault rifles” would have little impact on criminals.

Yes
The simple fact is that the current free supply of guns in the USA, De Facto arms criminals as well
I fully accept that the vast majority of gun owners will never abuse their guns, but you can't supply them guns without supply every criminal in the country.

Yep, that was also the case with our brief experiment with prohibition of alcohol, and largely the case with the existing ban on other ‘recreational’ drugs. Since the majority of people impacted by the ban were not causing any problems or committing (other) crime to finance their (currently illegal) drug use.

Privately owned assault rifles have no non-criminal uses.

That is simply not the case and data shows that handguns, by far, are preferred by criminals. As you stated - the vast majority of gun owners (which inlcudes “assault rifle” owners) will never abuse their guns.

IMHO, the ‘root cause’ of increasing crime (violent or otherwise) is recidivism - a small percentage of the population are commit the vast majority of crimes. We are constantly informed of additional crimes being committed by folks with many prior arrests and convictions who are still allowed to roam freely among us.

 

[Rich2018]

Presuming you mean "assault weapons", ie, AR-15s, you're simply wrong. Assuming you mean actual assault rifles, you're still wrong.

No, I was quoting you, when you said:

Don’t bother with the knives have other (non-criminal) uses nonsense, since “assault rifles” also have other (non-criminal) uses.

 

[Rich2018]

You have (unilaterally?) decided that banning guns (with a few notable exceptions) would be OK, but that would require amending the Constitution. As I noted, and data confirms, only banning “assault rifles” would have little impact on criminals.

Yes, there can be no significant gun control without a repeal of the 2A
Have I not stated this enough for you ?

Yep, that was also the case with our brief experiment with prohibition of alcohol, and largely the case with the existing ban on other ‘recreational’ drugs. Since the majority of people impacted by the ban were not causing any problems or committing (other) crime to finance their (currently illegal) drug use.

Just because prohibition was a failure, and the war on drugs is a failure, why do you assume a gun ban would fail ?
That's an equivocation fallacy: The assumption that two things sharing one characteristic, with naturally share another.

That is simply not the case and data shows that handguns, by far, are preferred by criminals. As you stated - the vast majority of gun owners (which inlcudes “assault rifle” owners) will never abuse their guns.

So what ?
How can you arm the law abiding section of society without De Facto arming the criminal section ?
Answer is, you can't.

IMHO, the ‘root cause’ of increasing crime (violent or otherwise) is recidivism - a small percentage of the population are commit the vast majority of crimes. We are constantly informed of additional crimes being committed by folks with many prior arrests and convictions who are still allowed to roam freely among us.

So your solution is what ?
Increased jail sentences, increase the size of the prison population ?

Yeah, the USA already hands out the strictest jail sentences in the developed world, and at 2.3 million, has the world's largest prison population - both in absolute and proportional terms
So how that working out ???

 

[RF667799]

No, I was quoting you, when you said:

And either way, you're wrong.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Presuming you mean "assault weapons", ie, AR-15s, you're simply wrong. Assuming you mean actual assault rifles, you're still wrong.

He means (mostly smaller caliber) semi-automatic rifles which look extra scary (or “military style”) to him. Many seem to assert that the militia clause in the 2A applies to the type (subset?) of ”the people” to which it was meant to apply and not to the type of “arms” to which it was meant to apply.

 

[ttwtt78640]

No, I was quoting you, when you said:

Nope, you were quoting me. Your urge to lump everyone who disagrees with you into one homogenous group is showing.

 

[RF667799]

Except a knife ban (like a car ban) will have negative consequences and they're needed, indeed are pretty much essential (just like cars)
Whereas (privately owned) guns, with few exceptions*, are not

*Like people employed as game wardens and use firearms for pest control.



Yes
The simple fact is that the current free supply of guns in the USA, De Facto arms criminals as well
I fully accept that the vast majority of gun owners will never abuse their guns, but you can't supply them guns without supply every criminal in the country.



Privately owned assault rifles have no non-criminal uses.

In another thread, you're arguing that private vehicles are not only non-essential, but Uber rides are the superior alternative, economically.

 

[Rucker61]

No, I was quoting you, when you said:

You weren't quoting me, so you're extra wrong.

 

[Daddyo]

This is all pointless ranting with no data to back up your statements.

I can see debate would be pointless though.

Blue states bad. Red states good. If a red state is bad then it's because of a big blue city. If it's a bad red city it because it is a blue state...or failing that, the last blue governor ruined it.

It's like whack-a-mole with

https://www.google.com/search?q=jac...rp#imgdii=HvvTUx05E-3CfM&imgrc=YuNUdoZj2ktrvM

Look at the map and look at the murder rates in those cities.

A high concentration of democrats particularly when with democrat representation. Key to high violent crime and murder.

884 cities in Florida and a total of 1108 murders. 286 came from those 6 blue areas. So 32 percent of the murder came from those 6 cities. They represent only 12 percent of the population yet account for 32 percent of the murder.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yes, there can be no significant gun control without a repeal of the 2A
Have I not stated this enough for you ?

OK, after repeal of the 2A happens I will then entertain your currently unconstitutional fantasies.

Just because prohibition was a failure, and the war on drugs is a failure, why do you assume a gun ban would fail ?
That's an equivocation fallacy: The assumption that two things sharing one characteristic, with naturally share another.

The characteristic they share is the will of the people.

So what ?
How can you arm the law abiding section of society without De Facto arming the criminal section ?
Answer is, you can't.

True, and that is precisely why tool (or recreational drug) control is not a viable solution. Non-criminal demand (aka the will of the people) can’t be controlled in a representative democracy.

So your solution is what ?
Increased jail sentences, increase the size of the prison population ?

Initially there would be an increase in the number of folks incarcerated, but there would also be a greater decrease in crime.

Yeah, the USA already hands out the strictest jail sentences in the developed world, and at 2.3 million, has the world's largest prison population - both in absolute and proportional terms

So how that working out ???

Hmm… 2.3M folks locked up is about .07% of the US population (330M). It is guesstimated that between 1% and 2% of the population are responsible for the bulk of violent crime.

It’s obviously not working out well, as recidivism statistics (and rising violent crime rate) bear out.

 

[Daddyo]

Not Scientific. There's tons of unknown factors. One example>>
"Did you know that sometimes Canada actually sends their citizens over to the United States to receive health care"
"Yep, this proves that Canada's health care system is not as good as our system.!"
The truth is:> In remote places among the US/Canada border, there are no main hospital services, (in Canada) within many miles BUT are services much closer
in the USA...that's why the Canadians sometimes send their injured over the border to the USA. (A gunshot wound or severe bleeding must be taken care of quickly) .

And sometimes they come here because they don't want to wait in Canada's system. They also come because the quality is better. This came directly from Canadians BTW.

 

[Daddyo]

Nah...thats not it. Its not hard to understand why people don't bother with facts when addressing this issue to the idiot left. The idiot left just ignores it.

But I'll give a go

Indiana is 28th of 50 states with regard to violent crimes. Not great...but not horrible. Indiana is a 'red state'. All things considered, the policies of the state government really doesnt have anything to do with the violent crimes that DO occur in the high crime cities in Indiana. Exclude those high crime cities and Indiana is VERY safe. What are the high violent crime cities that skew the states numbers? South Bend...Pete Buttigieg's failed city. Gary Indiana...another failed democrat cesspool. And they are led by Michigan city....yet another democrat shithole.

And thats the story across the country. Red states, blue states, the shitholes are in democrat led cities where democrats have been in charge for NUMEROUS decades and managed to completely **** over the minority communities there...bringing violence along with the poverty and despair.

Well said. Will they ever get it?

 

[Daddyo]

I'll give you another example...Indiana's next door neighbor...Illinois. Illinois is a blue state. Frankly, Illinois in total is a pretty nice state. Some of the cities are very safe. In fact, when you break down the Chicago townships some of those areas are racially diverse and pretty safe. Its the townships in the south and west sides of Chicago that are violent shitholes. Democrat Governor Pritzker didnt create those violent communities. Those communities have been destroyed of 89 years of uninterrupted democrat mayors in Chicago.

Like every other state, red or blue...the rat party built those violent shitholes.

DemocRAT party!

I don't care how you slice it the most violence comes from DEMOCRATS.

 

[Glitch]

He means (mostly smaller caliber) semi-automatic rifles which look extra scary (or “military style”) to him. Many seem to assert that the militia clause in the 2A applies to the type (subset?) of ”the people” to which it was meant to apply and not to the type of “arms” to which it was meant to apply.

Actually, the prefatory clause of the Second Amendment applies to the States and not the people at all.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."

It ensures that States also have the constitutional authority to establish a militia, and that the federal government does not have a monopoly on the militia due to Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 of the US Constitution. That was the purpose for including that specific phrase.

 

[Glitch]

DemocRAT party!

I don't care how you slice it the most violence comes from DEMOCRATS.

The Democratic Party continues to be the biggest threat the US has ever faced.

 

[HangLow]

Many of you anti gunners are liberal democrats. As I've been studing this gun violence and crime issue I have noticed something undeniable. Liberal policy is responsible!

So during a debate an opponent posted a graph of the States with the most gun violence. These States of course have Republican gonernors and thus lean republican as the majority. Their point was to show that States with less restrictive gun control policy have much more gun violence. Knowing that Republicans are much tougher on crime and criminals and that the Republican constituency has with in it a more law abiding, police supporting attitude, I found this very suspect. So I dove into the accusation being made and guess what????? Turns out that a few Blue cities within those red States are causing most of the violence including gun violence. Cities run by democrats, with a majority Democrat constituency, causing most of the States problems. Essentially if you remove crime in those blue areas red states are amongst the safest on the planet.

So check it out for yourselves. You might be surprised. I wasn't!

​

 

[Daddyo]

Cause of violence, something liberals actually want to address and republicans just ignore while they worship the rich
1. Income inequality. Poor, desperate people turn to crime. People who work their asses off and can barely afford housing or food get tired out and get angry. Republicans shit on the poor, whine that people can't make higher wages, can't get. food stamps, welfare, or any assistance at all.
2. Drug addiction and black market drug sales- Republicans moronic idea is just lock people up and no rehabilitation, and we have a disgusting rate of imprisonment in this country for it and it does nothing to address anything
3. Mental health0
4. our shitty, for profit healthcare industry that bankrupts people, adding to the 1 issue. Republicans worship the greed, don't care about the struggles of the people, address no problems at all
5. The sheer amount of guns in this country and lax republicans pushed regulations also contribute to the insane gun crimes.

#6anyway, just like every right wing partisan, there will be no actual arguments from you, just moronic projections and lilies

1. The poor in this country are poor because of a lack of education, poor life choices, and work ethic. While you are I attended school they dropped out. While I used a condom they had 4 kids and lost their drivers lincense due to child support. While I worked and saved they jumped from job to job and spent it all on nice things. While I finally opened my own business and worked 96 hours 7 days a week they lived off welfare and the government teet.

2. Drug addiction. While I refused to use drugs they didn't. I thus eliminated any change of become addicted. They didn't. Bad life choices again. You democrats enable Republicans expect personal responsibility for ones action.

3. Mental health. Plenty of bat shit crazy Republicans aswell.

4. Healthcare is not a right. You work and earn money and you have a choice either use some of that money to purchase health insurance coverage, as I did for decades, or you spend your money on a new car or larger home as far to many others did. Your choice. Or you don't work and earn money then you are subject to the safety net healthcare. My healthcare cost began to rise as liability insurance for dr's , drug costs, hospitalization costs all rose.

4 part two.....Republicans are among the most generous people on earth. We do care about the struggles of others. That why we give and help. Far more giving than you democrats

https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/resource/statistics-on-u-s-generosity/

and we do this despite being butt raped by the progessive tax system.

5. Bullcrap. We already showed you that it isn't guns it's democrats. We provided proof that more guns doesn't equal more gun crime. It's marshmallow soft punishment which allows recidivists to reoffend to the tune of over 70 percent.

#6 posted an arguement for each point. All liberal socialist dung. You call our positions moronic while watching each and every one of your positions fail miserably everyday. From that soft on crime stance I mentioned to illegal immigration. From gun control to wealth redistribution. Every one of your positions is pathetic garbage destroying this country.

Bail reform and soft on violent criminal offenders. Crime goes up duh! Violent recidivists going hog wild.

Allow shop lifting to 900 before prosecution. Shifting explodes.

Stop the deportation of illegals. Caravans full of illegals flood the border.

Allow CHOP to squat. CHOP grows larger and squats.

Show weakness to our enemies. Iran, N Korea, Russia, and China all acting up again.

So many more just say when.

 

[Daddyo]

You have the facts....its just not easy to see the facts from where you keep your head.

Rectal cranial inversion disorder?

 

[Chase Morgan]

View attachment 67382141​

Search warrants reveal new details in shooting death of young boys in Iredell Co.

After arguing for some time, Shawn Fuller reportedly punched Bianca Fuller, put a pillow over her head, then put a sheet around her neck and began to choke her.

www.wbtv.com

Murr-ca...............................................................................................

 

[Chase Morgan]

****ing more moronic right wing lies and idiocy. Republicans don't do anything, at all, to address any problems. They give tax breaks to the rich (who are a huge part of problems in this country) or look to ban abortion, trans, homosexuals, etc. Is there anything original in any right wing poster? Same stupid shit repeated over and over again.

Cause of violence, something liberals actually want to address and republicans just ignore while they worship the rich
1. Income inequality. Poor, desperate people turn to crime. People who work their asses off and can barely afford housing or food get tired out and get angry. Republicans shit on the poor, whine that people can't make higher wages, can't get. food stamps, welfare, or any assistance at all.
2. Drug addiction and black market drug sales- Republicans moronic idea is just lock people up and no rehabilitation, and we have a disgusting rate of imprisonment in this country for it and it does nothing to address anything
3. Mental health0
4. our shitty, for profit healthcare industry that bankrupts people, adding to the 1 issue. Republicans worship the greed, don't care about the struggles of the people, address no problems at all
5. The sheer amount of guns in this country and lax republicans pushed regulations also contribute to the insane gun crimes.

anyway, just like every right wing partisan, there will be no actual arguments from you, just moronic projections and lies

Solid post, LC

I notice several righties having great difficulty handling the truth...

 

[TurtleDude]

Presuming you mean "assault weapons", ie, AR-15s, you're simply wrong. Assuming you mean actual assault rifles, you're still wrong.

That's why his posts are pretty much a joke on this board. He spews blatant lies that are easily destroyed