Islamic resources

[Prophetxxx]

ROFL!

For one who claims to have read the Qur'an, you know absoloutely nothing about Islam. Allah is just the Arabic word for God. Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians inthe Middle East also call God "Allah". I suppose they're worshipping a false deity too, huh? :lol:

Ignorance once again. ''Ilah'' is the Arabic word for God. Allah was the name of a moon deity worshiped along with 360 other rock idols, Allah was the greatest of them all.

 

[Iriemon]

Uh... Same word yes... Same God no.

Allah in the Koran is the God of Abraham (Ibrahim), Moses (Musa), Jesus (Isa) and Mary (Marium):

[2.136] Say: We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.

The Koran presents a different view of different events. Islam recognizes Jesus as the messiah, for example, a great prophet endowed with special powers from God, but denies that Christ was the son of God or is God. In that sense, Islam's God is different from the Christian view of God (with its concept of the Trinity), but clearly the God of Islam devolves from the same God of the Jews and the Christians.

 

[Prophetxxx]

Allah in the Koran is the God of Abraham (Ibrahim), Moses (Musa), Jesus (Isa) and Mary (Marium):

[2.136] Say: We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.

The Koran presents a different view of different events. Islam recognizes Jesus as the messiah, for example, a great prophet endowed with special powers from God, but denies that Christ was the son of God or is God. In that sense, Islam's God is different from the Christian view of God (with its concept of the Trinity), but clearly the God of Islam devolves from the same God of the Jews and the Christians.

The Islamic Stories concerning Yahshua, Moses, etc, are completely different from the Biblical stories. Allah's charactar is opposite from Yahweh's.

 

[Sir_Alec]

Uh... Same word yes... Same God no.

Same word... same god... go get your facts straight.

 

[Prophetxxx]

Same word... same god... go get your facts straight.

You know, I could say the same thing to you.

 

[Sir_Alec]

You know, I could say the same thing to you.

You are lying. You are a plain and simple liar who is saying hes an expert when you most likely don't know anything.

 

[Apostle13]

You are lying. You are a plain and simple liar who is saying hes an expert when you most likely don't know anything.

I'm guessing you rode the really really short bus to school.

 

[Apostle13]

Care to explain what proof you have that the Muslim god isn't the same as the Jewish and Christian god?

Here is an article that gives good quality account as to reason... Its a bit superficial as to the what and the real in-depth explanation is, but between I and the Prophetxxx we will eventually reveal its (Islam) root source on this thread or that. As I am thoroughly convinced we are on the same page concerning this.:mrgreen:
http://www.nccg.org/islam/Islam01-Allah.html
Just ignore the slant the facts contained are straight.

 

[Iriemon]

Here is an article that gives good quality account as to reason... Its a bit superficial as to the what and the real in-depth explanation is, but between I and the Prophetxxx we will eventually reveal its (Islam) root source. As I am thoroughly convinced we are on the same page concerning this.:mrgreen:
http://www.nccg.org/islam/Islam01-Allah.html
Just ignore the slant the facts contained are straight.

If Allah comes from the Moon God, why does the Koran talk about Adam, and Noah, and Moses, nad Joshua, Jacob, Isaiah, and Jesus, calling them prophets of Allah. Where they prophets of the moon god as well as the real God?

Ya think God cares if people worship Him as Allah or Yahweh?

 

[Apostle13]

If Allah comes from the Moon God, why does the Koran talk about Adam, and Noah, and Moses, nad Joshua, Jacob, Isaiah, and Jesus, calling them prophets of Allah. Where they prophets of the moon god as well as the real God?

You must consider the Koran/Muhammad came some 600 some odd years later than Christ redemption, one can rationally conclude these stories were well known then, and equated to righteous reason. Radically induced into the Koran for a more sinister and deceptive means.

Ya think God cares if people worship Him as Allah or Yahweh?

They are not one and the same. Rather at extreme opposition.

 

[vergiss]

Ignorance once again. ''Ilah'' is the Arabic word for God. Allah was the name of a moon deity worshiped along with 360 other rock idols, Allah was the greatest of them all.

Moon god? :lol: Wow, talk about pulling something out of your arse.

Do you speak Arabic? No. Does my friend, a Coptic Christian? Yes. According to her, what's the Arabic word for God? Allah. What a shock! She must be secretly pushing the Muslim agenda! :roll:

You must consider the Koran/Muhammad came some 600 some odd years later than Christ redemption, one can rationally conclude these stories were well known then, and equated to righteous reason. Radically induced into the Koran for a more sinister and deceptive means. They are not one and the same. Rather at extreme opposition.

Face it - the reason you believe Islam to worship a fake God is because they don't worship Jesus. So, are the Jews worshipping a fake God, too? After all, the Jews alive nowadays come some 2000 years after Jesus.

You two are too shallow and Christ-obsessed to understand my true meaning when I say they worship the same God. I mean that everyone with faith worships the same God. There's only one deity, one spiritual force, up there, not Jehovah, plus Allah, Vishnu, whatever. However you want to worship this true God is fine, and just different methods of achieving the same ends (thus my dancing analogy, which was simple enough yet went right over your heads).

Just don't get so full of yourself that you seriously expect God to like followers of your religion better than the other 5 billion or more people out there. That's called arrogance, and taking God's name in vain.

 

[jamesrage]

Ignorance once again. ''Ilah'' is the Arabic word for God. Allah was the name of a moon deity worshiped along with 360 other rock idols, Allah was the greatest of them all.

I am going to have to agree with vergiss.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

lthough, outside the Arab world, use of the word Allāh is most often associated with Islam, it is not exclusive to that faith; Arab Christians and various Arabic-speaking Jews (including the Teimanim, several Mizraḥi communities and some Sephardim) also use it to refer to the monotheist deity. Arabic translations of the Bible also employ it, as do Roman Catholics in Malta (who pronounce it as "Alla"), Christians in Indonesia, who say "Allah Bapa" (God the Father) and Christians in the Middle East who use the Aramaic "Allāha".

snip...

From the point of view of traditional Islamic theology, Allāh is the most precious name of God because it is not a descriptive name like other ninety-nine names of God, but the name of God's own presence. Muslims believe that the name of Allah had existed before the time of Adam. It is the same God worshipped by Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and other prophets of Islam. In Islam, there is only one God and Muhammad is the last messenger.

 

[Iriemon]

You must consider the Koran/Muhammad came some 600 some odd years later than Christ redemption, one can rationally conclude these stories were well known then, and equated to righteous reason. Radically induced into the Koran for a more sinister and deceptive means. They are not one and the same. Rather at extreme opposition.

So Allah is the moon God, and they just put the references to Moses Jesus et al as God chosen prophets in the Koran to create the deception that Allah is the God of Moses and Jesus etc., when Allah is really the God of the Moon, in disguise. Clever.

 

[Apostle13]

So Allah is the moon God, and they just put the references to Moses Jesus et al as God chosen prophets in the Koran to create the deception that Allah is the God of Moses and Jesus etc., when Allah is really the God of the Moon, in disguise. Clever.

Ha... Do I detect a note of scepticism..? First off you'll need to disqualify yourself from some previous posts suggesting that Allah and God are same. In generic terms this is well and true, but in the sense as to who is Who, and which is what... While the word itself is same, the god/God in question/portrayal is most definitively not. After then making this adjustment for to reason you would have to further yourself toward spiritual acceptance of good vs. evil... When you have, and if are able, to come to this set point then. Then you are in an alliance mode with that, that is, closer to a true Christian perspective, making the truth far less readily incomprehensible. The take is a fundamentalist point of view. Therefore, not commonly adhered theology... As we fundies got the bad rap thing going.

 

[Iriemon]

Ha... Do I detect a note of scepticism..? First off you'll need to disqualify yourself from some previous posts suggesting that Allah and God are same. In generic terms this is well and true, but in the sense as to who is Who, and which is what... While the word itself is same, the god/God in question/portrayal is most definitively not. After then making this adjustment for to reason you would have to further yourself toward spiritual acceptance of good vs. evil... When you have, and if are able, to come to this set point then. Then you are in an alliance mode with that, that is, closer to a true Christian perspective, making the truth far less readily incomprehensible. The take is a fundamentalist point of view. Therefore, not commonly adhered theology... As we fundies got the bad rap thing going.

Putting aside the concept of the Trinity (which Islam rejects in favor of pure monotheism) in what ways do Allah and the God of the OT differ?

 

[Prophetxxx]

Putting aside the concept of the Trinity (which Islam rejects in favor of pure monotheism) in what ways do Allah and the God of the OT differ?

Yahweh is about choice, Allah submission. Biblical heaven is a plave where you're in fellowship with Yahweh. Islamic heaven is nothing more than a drunken orgy. Yahweh wants the lost to come and believe in Him. Allah leads men astray, he predestines them to hell where he personally tortures them. Yahweh has a son(Yahshua), Allah has no son. The Bible and Qur'an contradict each other on nearly everything, that's not good if they were inspired by the same God. Yahweh commands christians to save the lost. Allah commands that you convert them with the sword. Muhammed's disciples were completely different from Yahshua's.

 

[nkgupta80]

if a book (whether koran or bible) can make people do good, love one another, live a good life, then why should God care about trivial traditions and customs.

As long as people choose to live a good life, they should be in the favor of god.

 

[Prophetxxx]

Arabic, like Hebrew before it, was derived from Aramiac. In Hebrew, ''el'' was the word for god. Elohiym was used with the article to convey ''God'' with a capital ''G.'' In Arabic, ''el'' became ''il.'' Then over time, Arabs derived a secondary word for god, ''ilah.'' With ''al'' being the Arabic word for ''the,'' muslims would have us believe that ''Allah'' is a contraction of ''al'' and ''ilah.'' But the first Pillar of Islam contradicts this claim when it says:''There is no ilah but Allah.'' If ''Allah'' were the Arabic word for god it would have been written:''There is no allah but Allah.'' More over, the Qur'an itself uses ''ilah'' when Allah claims to be ''the God of Abraham.''

''Alihah'' is the plural form of ''ilah.''

 

[Prophetxxx]

If Allah isn't the same god as Yahweh, then that makes Muhammed a liar and Islam false.

 

[Iriemon]

Yahweh is about choice, Allah submission.

[2.256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

[Exodus 20:1] And God spoke all these words: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. "You shall have no other gods before me.

Biblical heaven is a plave where you're in fellowship with Yahweh. Islamic heaven is nothing more than a drunken orgy.

The Koran talks about resurrected bodies in heaven showing the "freshness of youth"

[78.30] So taste! for We will not add to you aught but chastisement.
[78.31] Surely for those who guard (against evil) is achievement,
[78.32] Gardens and vineyards,
[78.33] And those showing freshness of youth, equals in age,
[78.34] And a pure cup.
[78.35] They shall not hear therein any vain words nor lying.
[78.36] A reward from your Lord, a gift according to a reckoning:
[78.37] The Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, the Beneficent God, they shall not be able to address Him.
[78.38] The day on which the spirit and the angels shall stand in ranks; they shall not speak except he whom the Beneficent God permits and who speaks the right thing.
[78.39] That is the sure day, so whoever desires may take refuge with his Lord.

I couldn't find anywhere in the Koran describing orgies in heaven. Or even virgins, for that matter. Maybe you can point the passages out to me.

The Bible also talks about our heavenly bodies being glorified, free from decay or corruption.

1 Cor. 42: So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Yahweh wants the lost to come and believe in Him. Allah leads men astray, he predestines them to hell where he personally tortures them.

God also pretermines who will come to heaven:

[Romans 8:28] And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Yahweh has a son(Yahshua), Allah has no son.

This is true, Islam is purely monotheistic. I agree with that.

The Bible and Qur'an contradict each other on nearly everything, that's not good if they were inspired by the same God. Yahweh commands christians to save the lost. Allah commands that you convert them with the sword. Muhammed's disciples were completely different from Yahshua's.

The Koran and the Bible are much more similar than they are different. They are much closure cousins than other major religions. They agree on many things.

In the Koran, Jesus was born of a virgin mother (Mary), was the messiah, a messenger of God, was endowed by God with supernatural powers, performed great deeds and miracles, and when he died he ascended to heaven.

In the Bible, Jesus was born of a virgin mother (Mary), was the messiah, a messenger of God, was endowed by God with supernatural powers, performed great deeds and miracles, and when he died he was resurrected then ascended to heaven, in is the son of God.

You look at these things and say: "total contradiction! Islam is false and demonic!" But the similarities are there -- Christianity Islam and Judeasm all share the same roots, they all believe God created the universe, Adam was the first man, and recognize the many of the same prophets. All believe in the coming of the judgement day.

There are twists on the stories and certain beliefs, but Christianity is certainly much more similar to Islam than, say, Buddahism or Hinduism.

 

[Apostle13]

If Allah isn't the same god as Yahweh, then that makes Muhammed a liar and Islam false.

When was the last time or ever a Christian strapped on a bomb belt for to kill innocents. Encouraged by his/her own parents. Enticed by clerics with deceitful promises pertaining to lustful desires of a fleshly/sensual nature..?
NEVER!
And what is their (muslims) one true motivating factor..?
HATE!
My God... Is the God of the bible, and the God of Christians and Jews alike.

 

[Prophetxxx]

[2.256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Qur'an 4:90''If they turn back from Islam, becoming rengades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.'' If there's no compulsion for religion, then why are muslims ordered to kill Muslims that leave Islam?

[Exodus 20:1] And God spoke all these words: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. "You shall have no other gods before me.

Yeah, what's your point. All Yahweh's saying is that He brought them out of Egypt and that they're not to have any gods before Him.

The Koran talks about resurrected bodies in heaven showing the "freshness of youth"

[78.30] So taste! for We will not add to you aught but chastisement.
[78.31] Surely for those who guard (against evil) is achievement,
[78.32] Gardens and vineyards,
[78.33] And those showing freshness of youth, equals in age,
[78.34] And a pure cup.
[78.35] They shall not hear therein any vain words nor lying.
[78.36] A reward from your Lord, a gift according to a reckoning:
[78.37] The Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, the Beneficent God, they shall not be able to address Him.
[78.38] The day on which the spirit and the angels shall stand in ranks; they shall not speak except he whom the Beneficent God permits and who speaks the right thing.
[78.39] That is the sure day, so whoever desires may take refuge with his Lord.

I couldn't find anywhere in the Koran describing orgies in heaven. Or even virgins, for that matter. Maybe you can point the passages out to me.

The Bible also talks about our heavenly bodies being glorified, free from decay or corruption.

Qur'an 56:33''Unending, and unforbidden, exalted beds, and maidens incomparable. We have formed them in a distinctive fashion and made them virgins, loving companions matched for age, for the sake of those of the right hand.''[another translation reads]''On couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created them(maidens) incomparable: We have formed their maidens as a special creation, and made them to grow a new growth. We made them virgins-pure and undefiled, lovers, matched in age.'' This is just one of the many verses like this.

1 Cor. 42: So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

That's still not a drunken orgy.

God also pretermines who will come to heaven:

[Romans 8:28] And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Romans 10:13''For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.''
Bukhari:V6B60N473''Every created soul has his place written for him either in Paradise or in the Hell Fire. His happy or miserable fate is predetermined for him.''

This is true, Islam is purely monotheistic. I agree with that.



The Koran and the Bible are much more similar than they are different. They are much closure cousins than other major religions. They agree on many things.

In the Koran, Jesus was born of a virgin mother (Mary), was the messiah, a messenger of God, was endowed by God with supernatural powers, performed great deeds and miracles, and when he died he ascended to heaven.

In the Bible, Jesus was born of a virgin mother (Mary), was the messiah, a messenger of God, was endowed by God with supernatural powers, performed great deeds and miracles, and when he died he was resurrected then ascended to heaven, in is the son of God.

You look at these things and say: "total contradiction! Islam is false and demonic!" But the similarities are there -- Christianity Islam and Judeasm all share the same roots, they all believe God created the universe, Adam was the first man, and recognize the many of the same prophets. All believe in the coming of the judgement day.

There are twists on the stories and certain beliefs, but Christianity is certainly much more similar to Islam than, say, Buddahism or Hinduism.

Muhammed bastardized Biblical stories to fit his agenda, The storie from the Bible and Qur'an never have the same message. And what Yahweh calls christians to do, are completely different from what Allah orders muslims to do.

 

[Iriemon]

When was the last time or ever a Christian strapped on a bomb belt for to kill innocents. Encouraged by his/her own parents. Enticed by clerics with deceitful promises pertaining to lustful desires of a fleshly/sensual nature..?
NEVER!
And what is their (muslims) one true motivating factor..?
HATE!
My God... Is the God of the bible, and the God of Christians and Jews alike.

If you mean suicide attacks, I agree. Certainly, however, the bomb belt has been strapped on by Christians killing innocents has occurred many countless times, and continuing today in Iraq.

My guess is that if bin Laden had B-52 bombers escorted by F-15s, he'd prefer to use those rather than suicide bombers.

I've no doubt that hate is a motivating factor here. But even listening to the terrorists, they don't say they committed terrorist acts simply because they just want to kill Christians and hate Christians. According to them, they do it because US forces are in their lands, and because we aid their enemy, Isreal.

 

[Prophetxxx]

If you mean suicide attacks, I agree. Certainly, however, the bomb belt has been strapped on by Christians killing innocents has occurred many countless times, and continuing today in Iraq.

My guess is that if bin Laden had B-52 bombers excorted by F-15s, he'd prefer to use those rather than suicide bombers.

I've no doubt that hate is a motivating factor here. But even listening to the terrorists, they don't say they committed terrorist acts simply because they just want to kill Christians and hate Christians. According to them, they do it because US forces are in their lands, and because we aid their enemy, Isreal.

Qur'an 4:75''What reason have you that you should not fight in Allah's cause?''Qur'an 4:76''Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of idols: So fight the allies of Satan: feeble indeed is the plot of Satan.'' This is why the Islamic world refers to America as the ''Great Satan.'' And sense we should know the root from which satan was derived is ''Adversary'' it all makes sense. America is perceived to be a nation comprised of Christians and Jews. We are Lucifer's, and thus Islam's, adversary. Islam is ugly, not complicated.

 

[Iriemon]

Qur'an 4:90''If they turn back from Islam, becoming rengades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.'' If there's no compulsion for religion, then why are muslims ordered to kill Muslims that leave Islam?

What is your source? The version I have been reading is totally different.

[4.90] Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran

Yeah, what's your point. All Yahweh's saying is that He brought them out of Egypt and that they're not to have any gods before Him.

It's not an option, it's a commandment.

Qur'an 56:33''Unending, and unforbidden, exalted beds, and maidens incomparable. We have formed them in a distinctive fashion and made them virgins, loving companions matched for age, for the sake of those of the right hand.''[another translation reads]''On couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created them(maidens) incomparable: We have formed their maidens as a special creation, and made them to grow a new growth. We made them virgins-pure and undefiled, lovers, matched in age.'' This is just one of the many verses like this.

That is so different from the Christian perspective of our heavenly bodies, gloridied, immortal and exempted from decay?

What is your point, Islam is inherently evil because it suggests a slightly more beautified version of heaven? Or it is inherently evil simply because it differs from the Christian view?

That's still not a drunken orgy.

Where in the Koran does it talk about drunken orgies?

What's wrong with drunken orgies?

Romans 10:13''For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.''
Bukhari:V6B60N473''Every created soul has his place written for him either in Paradise or in the Hell Fire. His happy or miserable fate is predetermined for him.''

The Koran also says the believers will go to heaven.

I cited Romans where it indicates that God calls whom He has predestined to be saved. Those who aren't saved go to hell. What's the difference?

Muhammed bastardized Biblical stories to fit his agenda, The storie from the Bible and Qur'an never have the same message. And what Yahweh calls christians to do, are completely different from what Allah orders muslims to do.

I think I see the basis for your contention that Islam is inherently evil and demonic. It has some contradictions with the Christian view. Therefore it must be false. It therefore promises salvation falsely, therefore it must be demonic.

If you have a literalist fundamental belief in the Christian Bible, then that would be your conclusion.