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Is war becoming an acceptable policy in america?

presluc

presluc

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Before any poster jumps on this thread thinking that this thread is about anti miltary or anti American.

Let me put some things straight, I am proud to be an American, my family or at least one or more has fought in every American war including myself,in Nam', including a cousin serving on a ship around the mideast and a nephew in Afganistan today
So this ain;t about looking for Utopia or a conspeircy theory.

I don't know about the posters out there but I've always been a bit of a history buff.
Last night after the game, I was watching a channel about the 1st world war.
Actually started in 1914 America wanted no part of the war in Europe.
However, after the sinking of the Louisitania and some very nasty codes from Germany that fell into British hands Wilson reluctantly declared war.
The people of America came out in force to volenteer and those that couldn't supported their troops in force.
While American soldiers was sent to Europe people at home rolled up their sleeves and went to work on everything the American soldier needed, this was not forced labor but volenteer to work extra hours.
When the soldiers came home parades and speeches for the survivors tears and prayers for those that fell.

In 1936 Germany was broke owed money and had a high unemployment rate.
Some Guy with a funny moustache named Hitler had an idea, all he needed was a scapegoat and a few promices of peace, provided he got what he wanted.
A guy named Chamberlin fell for that at first
Problem was he ask for too much then he started taking, that led to War.

Once again America wanted no part of a war in Europe or any other place.
However on Dec. 7th 1941 Pearl Harbor and the U.S. naval base there was attacked.
F.D.R. had no chioce but to ask the Congress to declare WAR.

Once again young Americans stood in line to enlist.
When they left American shores evcerybody at home rolled up their sleeves women put away their aprons and doned factory garb to become welders and assemble parts needed by the military, rubber drives, metal drives, newspaper drives, War bonds sold.
In 1945 when the soldiers returned there were parades and speeches for the survivors, tears and prayers for those that fell.

But what of Viet Nam, S.Korea, Boznia, Somalia,, Iraq 1&2, and others?

When we were told of the coming war with Afganistan the president of the United States said " Take your wife or girfriend out for a dinner see a show or something"

In Iraq it was a differant story smoking gun. WMDS. Mushroom cloud ect.
None were found so somebody didn't confirm the so called weapons of mass destruction.
Then it was Lybia, Serbia
Now it's what about Iran?

The only retalatory strike was in Afganistan, and Americans did what was asked by the president, go out to dinner see a show.

So, not one the bring up the old pharse "IN MY DAY", because frankly I'm not that old but between 1941 WAR and 1951 War and 1964 war right up to Desert storm and the war on terror something seems kinda lost in translation.
In my opinion anyway'.

No matter how clean you try to make it ,or how ordinary you try to sell it WAR is one thing pure and simple PEOPLE DIE .
"WAR SUCKS":peace
 
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i think the people left behind are so isolated form the real in your face inhumanity that yes, in essence it's become acceptable. i am old enough to remember the nightly vietnam news clips.........that doesn't happen now.
 
every single war our country has been in has had a strong reason for entering,though most of the reasons the american people disagree with.

ww2-we entered europe to prevent the spread of german power,infact germany made many attempts with attack subs to attack the american coast,some got really close.we also got bombed by the japanese and retaliated by attacking japan,that attack also convinced americans to enter war with germany.

korea-to aid our ally but mostly to stop the spread of communism.

vietnam,numerous reasons though none any good,mainly to stop comunism but also used to push to military technology and test it against the soviet equipment the vietcong army used.there was also a belief that there were many resources in vietnam worth alot of money.

desert storm- very quick war so no reason to get into details other than pushing iraq out of kuwait.

somalia-started as a peace keeping mission to give aid to somalia,escalated from massive errors from the united nations,united states,as well as poor planning.

afghanistan-retaliation for 9/11 by attacking their main stronghold in hopes to deteriorate their operations.

iraq- iraq and iran switch trading currencies for oil from the dollar to the euro,threatening to destroy the dollars value as well as our economy,iraq was used as an example to the world.

iran- havent invaded but see iraq.


war is something that is used to build economies,through uniting people under a common enemy and through pumping money into private companies for war time development and manufacturing.it is also used to overthrow governments and install new ones compliant with the united nations,either for trade benefit or to gain a strategic stronghold against a bigger enemy.

ever noticed how many allies we have around russia?
 
liblady said:
i think the people left behind are so isolated form the real in your face inhumanity that yes, in essence it's become acceptable. i am old enough to remember the nightly vietnam news clips.........that doesn't happen now.
Click to expand...

In my opinion WAR should never be acceptable.:peace
 
beerftw said:
every single war our country has been in has had a strong reason for entering,though most of the reasons the american people disagree with.

ww2-we entered europe to prevent the spread of german power,infact germany made many attempts with attack subs to attack the american coast,some got really close.we also got bombed by the japanese and retaliated by attacking japan,that attack also convinced americans to enter war with germany.

korea-to aid our ally but mostly to stop the spread of communism.

vietnam,numerous reasons though none any good,mainly to stop comunism but also used to push to military technology and test it against the soviet equipment the vietcong army used.there was also a belief that there were many resources in vietnam worth alot of money.

desert storm- very quick war so no reason to get into details other than pushing iraq out of kuwait.

somalia-started as a peace keeping mission to give aid to somalia,escalated from massive errors from the united nations,united states,as well as poor planning.

afghanistan-retaliation for 9/11 by attacking their main stronghold in hopes to deteriorate their operations.

iraq- iraq and iran switch trading currencies for oil from the dollar to the euro,threatening to destroy the dollars value as well as our economy,iraq was used as an example to the world.

iran- havent invaded but see iraq.


war is something that is used to build economies,through uniting people under a common enemy and through pumping money into private companies for war time development and manufacturing.it is also used to overthrow governments and install new ones compliant with the united nations,either for trade benefit or to gain a strategic stronghold against a bigger enemy.

ever noticed how many allies we have around russia?
Click to expand...

World War 1 and 2 and maybe Korea I understand as well as Afganistan.

The rest you are talking money, trade, dollars, parnoia.

If History has taught us anything those who are quick to declare WAR often suffer the consequences.
That's economicly, financialy, and population.

An example was found in a letter a German soldier wrote to his son.
"You might want to hold off on your geography lessons of Europe cause I think after this war is over, borders of countries will change."
He was right unless you can show the borders of the Ottoman Empire today

If America keeps quickly accepting WAR as the norm , one day America's border's may change.:peace
 
presluc said:
In my opinion WAR should never be acceptable.:peace
Click to expand...


War has always been an acceptable foreign policy solution when all other approaches fail. And it probably always will be.
 
presluc said:
World War 1 and 2 and maybe Korea I understand as well as Afganistan.

The rest you are talking money, trade, dollars, parnoia.

If History has taught us anything those who are quick to declare WAR often suffer the consequences.
That's economicly, financialy, and population.

An example was found in a letter a German soldier wrote to his son.
"You might want to hold off on your geography lessons of Europe cause I think after this war is over, borders of countries will change."
He was right unless you can show the borders of the Ottoman Empire today

If America keeps quickly accepting WAR as the norm , one day America's border's may change.:peace
Click to expand...

money,trade,dollars and paranoia are all common reasons wars get started.the fact is the world hasn't changed in its mentality since the beginning of civilization in regards to war.war has always been waged for some sort of benefit and has always involved killing many people to benefit few.the truth of the matter is if there was nothing to gain from war,no wars would be started.but there is obviously enough to gain that countries are willing to gamble and possibly lose everything for the possible rewards of war.
 
`You ought to read Larry Niven's dissertations "Why men fight" and it's companion piece "What you can do to stop War."

The first piece, "Why men fight", is long and discusses evolutionary pressures, tribalism, economic and political issues, and so forth. It is very insightful.

The second piece, "What you can do to stop War", follows immediately after the first and is very short. It is IIRC one sentence, which expresses in its simplicity the only conclusion possible from the information presented in the first article. It answers the asked question about what you can do to stop War very simply: "Not a damn thing."


Those periods of lower-intensity-conflict we call "peace" are simply brief rests while we re-arm and fortify ourselves between conflicts.
 
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Wiggen said:
War has always been an acceptable foreign policy solution when all other approaches fail. And it probably always will be.
Click to expand...

Since 1964 what approaches fave been tried let alone failed?:peace
 
beerftw said:
money,trade,dollars and paranoia are all common reasons wars get started.the fact is the world hasn't changed in its mentality since the beginning of civilization in regards to war.war has always been waged for some sort of benefit and has always involved killing many people to benefit few.the truth of the matter is if there was nothing to gain from war,no wars would be started.but there is obviously enough to gain that countries are willing to gamble and possibly lose everything for the possible rewards of war.
Click to expand...

So the progress of Civilization in America is at best questionable.

A blockade/ boycott can bring a nation to it's knees just as quick as any armed weapon that's basic military strategy..:peace
 
Goshin said:
`You ought to read Larry Niven's dissertations "Why men fight" and it's companion piece "What you can do to stop War."

The first piece, "Why men fight", is long and discusses evolutionary pressures, tribalism, economic and political issues, and so forth. It is very insightful.

The second piece, "What you can do to stop War", follows immediately after the first and is very short. It is IIRC one sentence, which expresses in its simplicity the only conclusion possible from the information presented in the first article. It answers the asked question about what you can do to stop War very simply: "Not a damn thing."


Those periods of lower-intensity-conflict we call "peace" are simply brief rests while we re-arm and fortify ourselves between conflicts.
Click to expand...

Not to doubt the policies of Mr. Niven, but mearly to question it.
If in fact what we can do to stop War is "NOT A DAMN THING"

Then why wasn't there a war between Russia and America.
I mean like it's not like they didn't have time or reason.
So what happened why didn't somebody push a button???
Answer some reason , some how, somebody didn't want to.

Why? because the thought of that much destruction is too hard to accept.
But lose 50, 000 or 100,000+ men women and children ... WELL THAT'S DIFFERANT.

If in fact we make WAR so destructive, so horrible the thought of that much destruction would be unacceptable to any nation or their leaders, or any terrorist organization, would the statement, "NOT A DAMN THING" stand:peace
 
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presluc said:
Since 1964 what approaches fave been tried let alone failed?:peace
Click to expand...

NOt the point of the discussion. The statement you made was that war was never accceptable. I disagree. That is the pacifist approach and is simply not viable in a world where not everybody plays nice. In fact, it is an option when all other approaches fail. There are certainly historical examples of this. War is at the far end of foreign policy solutions.
 
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Freedom...

braveheart.webp
 
Wiggen said:
NOt the point of the discussion. The statement you made was that war was never accceptable. I disagree. That is the pacifist approach and is simply not viable in a world where not everybody plays nice. In fact, it is an option when all other approaches fail. There are certainly historical examples of this. War is at the far end of foreign policy solutions.
Click to expand...

My bad, should have been more specific.
WAR should not be acceptable as the normal thing to do.
WAR SHOULD BE USED ONLY AS A LAST RESORT.
PACIFIST???
Are you saying just because a human does not want War he becomes a pacifist??
Read the first lines of the OP again.
I was drafted others were burning their draft cards or going to Canada, I went to FT. Benning
As the song says "I ain't no Senators son"
My ansestors fought with Washington in 1776, I fought with Westmoreland in 1966. My relitives are fighting in Afganistan and on a ship somewhere around the MED.

As I have said in a differant thread, if in fact I was a foiegn nation and broke had no money , no materials I would start a war with America lose and wait for reconstruction and foriegn aid.

Did you ever think that's why some nations aren't playing nice.
How can you lose a war if you get paid for winning and you get paid for loseing plus reconstruction and foriegn aid??
Oh and for the record I was born August 4th, 1945 check the date of August 6th 1945:peace
 
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America have always liked a good scrap, I like to think you got that from your British roots ;)
 
Not sure about "becoming". IIRC, the USA has been involved in an armed conflict somewhere on the globe every year since WW2. That's a long time of becoming.
 
:doh
Another presluc thread that rants against international trade, and for a mismash of obscure economic thinking and pacifism
 
to OP: as one of my other nerdy friends would say: "Were American's, we love war, cause were good at it!"
 
War is an outgrowth of a militant society. It happens because people are so competitive internally that they create social rejects.

These social rejects have to do something with their lives, so it's either resort to a life of crime within society, or go do criminal acts to someone else outside society.

Without internal war, there would be no external war. Think about that.
 
liblady said:
i think the people left behind are so isolated form the real in your face inhumanity that yes, in essence it's become acceptable. i am old enough to remember the nightly vietnam news clips.........that doesn't happen now.
Click to expand...

It's why press access is now restricted in combat zones. If war were still truly televised, we would not be able to sustain any campaigns in the middle east. Censorship has dumbed down public awareness.
 
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