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Is this mosque a violation of church and state?

digsbe

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American Thinker: The ACLU's anti-Religious Hypocrisy Please read the article first.

Basically, the city of Boston sold the Islamic Society of Boston a plot of land valued at $2,000,000 for only $175,000 and accepting other payments in the form of Islamic teaching. Basically the mosque would have a library and teach people Islamic courses and the state would accept this as a form of payment. Is it a violation of church and state for Boston to sell state land to a religious organization at an extremely low and undervalued price while at the same time accepting payment by religious services offered by the mosque? The article highlights the hypocrisy of the ACLU, but I want to know if you all think this is a violation of church and state or something illegal. What if Boston sold the land to an evangelical church that said they would also make payments by educating people on evangelical Christianity? Is this supporting or respecting the Islamic religion at the government level (the city of Boston) ?
 

CrazyMcCool

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WTF
thats a huge discount wtf
Boston I loved you but WTF?!

I got nothing to say other than that being the biggest discount ever..

and its not okay, religion should be built on privately ownd property not one that the sate just about gave away in this case
I mean WTF

I live in Lexington MA near boston, and I go to boston ever summer to sail..

and the last thing i would of expected to happen in boston is THIS
And the strange this is I dont know anyone who lives in boston and is aware of this 0-0

This is actually making me scared xD

( or it could be dat test tomorrow who knows)

found something about this.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-and-links-to-the-gaza-flotilla-95403424.html

this should be top news ><
 
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amyk629

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I live in Salem, north of Boston, and WOW..this really angers me! I'm going to have to make a few phone calls...

I dont know anyone who lives in boston and is aware of this
I was unaware and I'm certainly going to voice my opinion.

It's unconstitutional because the land was sold way below the fair market price.
 

CrazyMcCool

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I live in Salem, north of Boston, and WOW..this really angers me! I'm going to have to make a few phone calls...



I was unaware and I'm certainly going to voice my opinion.

It's unconstitutional because the land was sold way below the fair market price.
I will be in boston on the 16th and I will join any rallies that are going to be going on when i am visiting.
this is ridicules how can they do such a thing but not tell the residents of boston ect..
 

amyk629

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I will be in boston on the 16th and I will join any rallies that are going to be going on when i am visiting.
this is ridicules how can they do such a thing but not tell the residents of boston ect..
Center Profile

Looks like the legal battle ended and there's not much to do now about it, unfortunately. I wish I could have helped vote Menino out.
 

CrazyMcCool

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There is still something that can be done I just dont know what ><
 

Ikari

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Why did the government sell it so cheaply? I mean, they basically stole a crap load of money from the People.
 

amyk629

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There is still something that can be done I just dont know what ><
Please inform me if you think of anything and I will put full effort into helping. It's ridiculous that Boston is spending money on this kind of thing. This kind of ties in with the New Americans Agenda that Deval has proposed. If you haven't checked it out I suggest you do so, I have signed a petition against it that is on the Web. If you are against the Agenda and want to find the petition let me know and I'll send you the link.
 

Your Star

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Yeah, this isn't kosher. If they sold if at full price, then I wouldn't see a problem, but please no discount.
 

digsbe

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Yeah, this isn't kosher. If they sold if at full price, then I wouldn't see a problem, but please no discount.
I agree, but do you think this is a violation of church and state? One thing they are doing is accepting payment by the mosque educating people on Islam and offering courses/an Islamic library. Is this action promoting religion at the state level? Also, is the state upholding and respecting a religion by selling them land at a crazy low price?
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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I don't see anything unconstitutional about this. It might be a bad business move if they don't make money from the payments, but not necessarily unconstitutional.
 

digsbe

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Also, I wonder. Does anyone else see hypocrisy at the hands of the ACLU?
With all this sunlight bursting through the shutters at the Mayor's office and at the ISB, mirabile dictu — the ISB decided to suspend its lawsuit (but not to drop it). You'd think by now the ACLU would have registered something on its screen. But as far as their gaze extended, darkness was plainly visible.
How has Ms. Rose and the ACLU reacted to all this inconvenient news? Asked about it recently, she replied, 'I don't know about the issue and no one in this office is going to investigate it.' Jaw drop #2...Pressed further she added, 'This is not on our radar screen.' Raising her voice, Ms. Rose was clearly annoyed at any question dealing with the case and again terminated the conversation.
What if this had been an evangelical church?
 

Toothpicvic

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Also, I wonder. Does anyone else see hypocrisy at the hands of the ACLU?

What if this had been an evangelical church?
Is it being built on federal grounds? If not, then I don't see what's unconstitutional about it. But I'm still against the Mosque being built there - the guys in charge of it are probably doing it just to spit in American's faces, that's the only reason they'd have picked that particular site.
 

Pal

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I live in Boston and I haven't heard to much about this. I don't think it is as much of an issue as people are making it out to be. It seems to me that the decision to sell the land for such a low price was a poor one from a financial perspective, but it also looks like it was a last ditch effort in an otherwise unsolvable situation, it seems like the foundation building the mosque is pretty much bankrupt and the government recognized that they wouldn't be able to pay the asking price for the land. My guess is that the decision was made because the thought of a half finished abandoned project in Roxbury, the city's poorest neighborhood, sitting there for who knows how long until someone else decided to build on the land was worth the money lost from offering them the discount. Urban decay is something our municipal government does its best to avoid as we've had problems with it in previous decades.

However I don't find any of it unconstitutional, they still had to pay. I also don't see any hypocrisy on the part of the ACLU. If this were a Christian church/complex (let's just say Christian, I've never heard of an evangelical church building anything remotely resembling this anywhere around here) and the organization funding went bankrupt, faced with the prospect of a massive abandoned building just sitting in the middle of Roxbury I'm pretty sure the Mayor would do the same thing. This isn't a religious or constitutional issue, it's a financial one. People are just getting angry about it because it's a mosque.


Edit: Made a mistake about the Phoenix, not the paper I was thinking of
 
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Deuce

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I agree, but do you think this is a violation of church and state? One thing they are doing is accepting payment by the mosque educating people on Islam and offering courses/an Islamic library. Is this action promoting religion at the state level? Also, is the state upholding and respecting a religion by selling them land at a crazy low price?
I can't think of any particular part of the constitution that would ban this.
 

Deuce

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Is it being built on federal grounds? If not, then I don't see what's unconstitutional about it. But I'm still against the Mosque being built there - the guys in charge of it are probably doing it just to spit in American's faces, that's the only reason they'd have picked that particular site.
It's a 13 story community center with a mosque in it. They aren't spitting in anyone's face, they're trying to reach out to the community and repair some of the damage that has been done to our relations.
 

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Yeah, this isn't kosher. If they sold if at full price, then I wouldn't see a problem, but please no discount.
I think you mean its not Halal. ha!

But in all seriousness I dont think its a violation of the Constitution as its obviously not imposing religion and although one could argue that its an endorsement of one, because of the serious discount, it wouldnt be the first time states and the Fed gov't gave special privilege to religious groups. What is, is just bad business.
 

Tucker Case

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I don't think it's a violation of Church and state because it's not federal.

I don't have a problem with Alabama, for example, deciding to put the Ten commandments in front of a State court house. The first amendment only limits federal authority to endorse a religion, not State and/or local authority to do so.

While I personally disagree with any State or Local government endorsement of religion, I don't feel it is unconstitutional for them to do so.
 

Black Dog

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I don't see the violation as it has nothing to do with the state passing a law based on religious law or infringing on someones practicing religion.

So no, this has literally nothing to do with the first amendment.

Would not be the first time a state has made a bad business deal though.
 

justabubba

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government should ALWAYS have to sell its assets at fair market value
these discounted transactions are insidious. they allow politically connected parties access to taxpayer funded assets at below market prices
keep the transactions transparent. the elected representatives should be required to pass a bill authorizing a financial subsidy for such transactions, to cover the amount of the discount
but then the public would be alerted to the subsidy and might find it objectionable

given the description of the property, it my not now hold the $2,000,000 fair market value it once possessed. hopefully, it is worth only the $175,000 being paid for it
 

American

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Two questions:

1) Why is Boston in the real estate business?

2) Why did Boston rip off the people of Mass, but selling property at a depressed value? Will they do this for other religions?
 

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I don't think it's a violation of Church and state because it's not federal.

I don't have a problem with Alabama, for example, deciding to put the Ten commandments in front of a State court house. The first amendment only limits federal authority to endorse a religion, not State and/or local authority to do so.

While I personally disagree with any State or Local government endorsement of religion, I don't feel it is unconstitutional for them to do so.
What about incorporation?
 

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I do feel that states and municipalities cannot do this because the Constitution ought to prevent it. But, the state of Idaho basically sold land to a religious organization so that they could place a Christian cross on the land above Boise. There were attempts to sue on Constitutional grounds, but they failed.
 

Anarcho-fascist

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No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
I don't know, it doesn't really seem like the courts are stretching their interpretation to me.
 
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