Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 [W:118] (1 Viewer)

[EvaPeron]

Just asking because to me I feel like he just arrogantly tried to sell ocean front property in Arizona and offered the Brooklyn bridge as s deal closer. Must just be me ?!?

 

[blaxshep]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

Just asking because to me I feel like he just arrogantly tried to sell ocean front property in Arizona and offered the Brooklyn bridge as s deal closer. Must just be me ?!?

It's not just you.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

The payment was announced in January, after it became clear we could not win in court and losing would cost more. It was made in cash because we have no banking ties with Iran, thus it could not be transferred or wired.

-Obama, today.


As far as those military men being "hostages", well... they were legally captured in Iranian territorial waters. If the US caught Iranian sailors in US territorial waters, would we be obligated to release them immediately? No, we would not. We would be within our international rights to interrogate them and hold them until an amicable solution was arrived at.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

The payment was announced in January, after it became clear we could not win in court and losing would cost more. It was made in cash because we have no banking ties with Iran, thus it could not be transferred or wired.

-Obama, today.


As far as those military men being "hostages", well... they were legally captured in Iranian territorial waters. If the US caught Iranian sailors in US territorial waters, would we be obligated to release them immediately? No, we would not. We would be within our international rights to interrogate them and hold them until an amicable solution was arrived at.

There are international peacetime protocols for ships in distress in international, and national waters. The Iranians were not human enough to follow those protocols. And, the USA would not have done the things that the Iranians did to these sailors. They are ****ing animals!

 

[blaxshep]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

The payment was announced in January, after it became clear we could not win in court and losing would cost more. It was made in cash because we have no banking ties with Iran, thus it could not be transferred or wired.

-Obama, today.


As far as those military men being "hostages", well... they were legally captured in Iranian territorial waters. If the US caught Iranian sailors in US territorial waters, would we be obligated to release them immediately? No, we would not. We would be within our international rights to interrogate them and hold them until an amicable solution was arrived at.

Win in court? What court? Why do we owe Iran?

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

Win in court? What court? Why do we owe Iran?

We can freeze Iran's accounts, we cannot confiscate them. We could disregard international law, but why? 400m doesn't make or break us so why violate international law by going rogue on international economic policy? If we pressed the issue, and remained within international law, we could be on the hook for billions instead of 400m.

Again, we could say "**** the world!" and just do whatever we want, but that makes no sense and has no reason. I'm sorry but your "**** the world" position is just stupid.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

There are international peacetime protocols for ships in distress in international, and national waters. The Iranians were not human enough to follow those protocols.

The ship was not in distress. The sailors ****ed up, went off course and were legally captured.

And, the USA would not have done the things that the Iranians did to these sailors. They are ****ing animals!

Making a video and telling them "look happy" is hardly torture.

 

[blaxshep]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

We can freeze Iran's accounts, we cannot confiscate them. We could disregard international law, but why? 400m doesn't make or break us so why violate international law by going rogue on international economic policy? If we pressed the issue, and remained within international law, we could be on the hook for billions instead of 400m.

Again, we could say "**** the world!" and just do whatever we want, but that makes no sense and has no reason. I'm sorry but your "**** the world" position is just stupid.

When did I say any of that? I just want to know why we owe Iran $400M.

I'm not buying that we can't wire Iran, that is BS. How do Americans by oil from Iran? In unmarked planes full of pallets of money?

 

[Mason66]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

The payment was announced in January, after it became clear we could not win in court and losing would cost more. It was made in cash because we have no banking ties with Iran, thus it could not be transferred or wired.

-Obama, today.


As far as those military men being "hostages", well... they were legally captured in Iranian territorial waters. If the US caught Iranian sailors in US territorial waters, would we be obligated to release them immediately? No, we would not. We would be within our international rights to interrogate them and hold them until an amicable solution was arrived at.

We have no banking ties with Iran.

They can be set up rater quickly to make the transfer.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

When did I say any of that? I just want to know why we owe Iran $400M.

If you know nothing about this, perhaps you should read more and type less. When we froze Iranian accounts, we effectively seized them. Seizing them is not legal under international agreements. If we were to abide our international agreements, we needed to win in court to keep the money. It became clear that we would not win, and it would cost us much more, so we agree to make the payment to Iran and announced it in January.

I'm not buying that we can't wire Iran, that is BS. How do Americans by oil from Iran? In unmarked planes full of pallets of money?

We don't.

A ban on any transactions with Iranian banks and financial institutions

Ban on the import, purchase and transport of Iranian crude oil and natural gas - the EU had previously accounted for 20% of Iran's oil exports. European companies were also stopped from insuring Iranian oil shipments.

Iran nuclear crisis: What are the sanctions? - BBC News



So, we can see that your position is based entirely on ignorance. Now that you know why we owe them, and that we don't buy oil from Iran, perhaps you have a different opinion?

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

The ship was not in distress. The sailors ****ed up, went off course and were legally captured.



Making a video and telling them "look happy" is hardly torture.

The boat was down.............big difference!!! Stay away from a subject that you know nothing about,

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

We have no banking ties with Iran.

They can be set up rater quickly to make the transfer.

Our international agreements (the ban) prohibits that. See above post.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

According to one of the freed hostages, Obama is, indeed, a liar.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

The boat was down.............big difference!!! Stay away from a subject that you know nothing about,

Oh, the irony.

Washington (AFP) - US sailors who were captured in January after straying into Iranian waters committed basic navigational blunders, were quick to surrender and some buckled under questioning, a damning Navy probe released Thursday found.

The report into the January 12 incident in the Persian Gulf highlights a string of leadership and procedural failings in Iran's humiliating seizure of the 10 American sailors, with investigators saying the crews of the two captured boats had been derelict in their duties.

The sailors at times appeared haplessly lost at sea, with the engineer on one boat even resorting to an app on his smartphone to try to figure out the name of an unexpected land mass -- which turned out to be Iran's Farsi Island -- only to find his phone displaying only a "long Arabic name" and no other information.

In all, nine Navy personnel -- three of whom were actually on the boats that were meant to head from Kuwait to Bahrain -- have been disciplined or will face disciplinary action.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-navy-discipline-eight-over-capture-iran-sea-140550390.html

They were held for 24 hours, there was no ill treatment.

Your narrative is completely full of ****.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

According to one of the freed hostages, Obama is, indeed, a liar.

Iran could predicate the release with the payment, and that could have nothing to do with any deal. Or "the other plane" could be something completely different.

 

[blaxshep]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

If you know nothing about this, perhaps you should read more and type less. When we froze Iranian accounts, we effectively seized them. Seizing them is not legal under international agreements. If we were to abide our international agreements, we needed to win in court to keep the money. It became clear that we would not win, and it would cost us much more, so we agree to make the payment to Iran and announced it in January.



We don't.

Iran nuclear crisis: What are the sanctions? - BBC News



So, we can see that your position is based entirely on ignorance. Now that you know why we owe them, and that we don't buy oil from Iran, perhaps you have a different opinion?

Yes, thank you, I was under the impression that the Obama Iran deal had removed the sanctions.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

Iran could predicate the release with the payment, and that could have nothing to do with any deal. Or "the other plane" could be something completely different.

LOL!!

Yeah...right.

And I could have a bridge to sell you...real cheap.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

Yes, thank you, I was under the impression that the Obama Iran deal had removed the sanctions.

It eased some sanctions, it did not remove them all.

US oil imports by month (no Iran):

U.S. Total Crude Oil and Products Imports

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

Oh, the irony.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-navy-discipline-eight-over-capture-iran-sea-140550390.html

They were held for 24 hours, there was no ill treatment.

Your narrative is completely full of ****.

Again............ territorial waters doesn't mean squat. A broken boat drifting is in distress. Under peacetime laws, they should be rendered assistance.....not humiliation. The Iranians knew this, but exploited it as a war crime.

Read the international rules before you come off like a sea lawyer

https://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/073cf98c.../Chapter-III.aspx

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

Again............ territorial waters doesn't mean squat. A broken boat drifting is in distress. Under peacetime laws, they should be rendered assistance.....not humiliation. The Iranians knew this, but exploited it as a war crime.

Read the international rules before you come off like a sea lawyer

https://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/073cf98c.../Chapter-III.aspx

There are no reports that the boats (2 of them) were in distress. Nine sailors were prosecuted for dereliction of duty.

Your claim that the boat was derelict is false. There were 2 boats, they were not derelict, they were lost. They were lost as a result of dereliction of duty.

Your claim of mistreatment is also false. The sailors were not mistreated. They were released 24 hours after capture.

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

Just asking because to me I feel like he just arrogantly tried to sell ocean front property in Arizona and offered the Brooklyn bridge as s deal closer. Must just be me ?!?

I don't believe a damn word obama or kerry say...on this matter... or any other matter.

They paid off Iran to delay their nuke program....instead of bombing their nuke program. ****ing cowards that they are....I say we should just let Israel deal with Iran.

There are international peacetime protocols for ships in distress in international, and national waters. The Iranians were not human enough to follow those protocols. And, the USA would not have done the things that the Iranians did to these sailors. They are ****ing animals!

All correct!

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

I say we should just let Israel deal with Iran.

Wait, I thought Israel controlled the US. Isn't that your narrative.

All correct!

All BS! The boat(s) were not derelict, aside from dereliction of duty.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

There are no reports that the boats (2 of them) were in distress. Nine sailors were prosecuted for dereliction of duty.

Your claim that the boat was derelict is false. There were 2 boats, they were not derelict, they were lost. They were lost as a result of dereliction of duty.

Your claim of mistreatment is also false. The sailors were not mistreated. They were released 24 hours after capture.

If you even had the slightest clue about maritime law and protocols, you would understand what a ignoramus you are being.

Experts: Iran's arrest of U.S. sailors broke international law

Riverine boat incident report: Iran violated international law and U.S. sovereign immunity | Naval Today

Iran?s Humiliation of American Sailors Must Have Consequences - Congressman J. Randy Forbes

The sailors were victims of a poor leadership by their officers, and the lack of support of the officers who operated under a Obama's confusing theater rules. Not to mention a azzhole Iranian Navy.. (CIC)

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

If you even had the slightest clue about maritime law and protocols, you would understand what a ignoramus you are being.

Experts: Iran's arrest of U.S. sailors broke international law

Riverine boat incident report: Iran violated international law and U.S. sovereign immunity | Naval Today

Iran?s Humiliation of American Sailors Must Have Consequences - Congressman J. Randy Forbes

The sailors were victims of a poor leadership by their officers, and the lack of support of the officers who operated under a Obama's confusing theater rules. Not to mention a azzhole Iranian Navy.. (CIC)

From your first citation:

The U.S. riverine boats had the right to pass expeditiously through Iran's territorial waters under the right of innocent passage without being boarded and arrested so long as they weren't engaged in a military operation such as spying. Pentagon officials have said the riverine boat crews mistakenly entered Iran's waters in the Persian Gulf due to a "navigation error" while en route to a refueling.

A military boat entering territorial waters can be presumed to be engaging in a military operation. One boat may have had engine difficulty, but that was after they had entered Iranian waters.

Your second source claims that recording the sailors was a violation. Spare us the claims of "mistreatment".

1. The boat did not drift into Iranian waters.
2. The sailors were not mistreated.

Both of your claims are false.

 

[Visbek]

Re: Is there anyone here that believes Obama is telling the truth about the 400 mill

Just asking because to me I feel like he just arrogantly tried to sell ocean front property in Arizona and offered the Brooklyn bridge as s deal closer. Must just be me ?!?

In case you missed it, we live in an era of deep partisanship. Some people would be infuriated by Obama publicly stating that 2+2=4. My guess is that after 7 years, Obama is getting tired of that nonsense.

As noted, everything except a few details about the timing were openly discussed back in January.

So, it's not just you, but it is people like you, who are utterly incapable of describing anything Obama does as anything other than an outrage.