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Is Noam Chomsky who he pretends to be?

superskippy said:
The people he has written for, the magazines he has written for, it is horrendous.

Z Magazine, Lies of Our Times, Maine's Common Courage Press, Canada's Black Rose Books, California's Journal of Historical Review (which Canadian Customs bans as hate literature) and California's Marxist Pacifica network.

What I meant was if you meet a Jew who knows the work Chomsky has done, you will find that he is not a... highly regarded person. He is a traitor.

Watch the documentary, "The Manufacturing of Consent", And you will find that Noam openly criticizes the mainstream media for being corporate lapdogs. This is primarily why he's worked through the alternative media outlets. And even though he's been offered prime-time slot, TV interviews, he has turned them down because he doesn't regard them as having any integrity.
 
superskippy said:
:roll: He wrote the entire preface to several books that deny the Holacaust ever happened. That is as much as you should need to know. He's a dirty anti-semite who uses the cloud of being an intellectual as a shield which makes people take him searously as opposed to neo nazi supremacists. He's got a lot of Nazi trait's going for him.

The prefaces I'm talking about were written for the writings of Robert Faurisson, and the rest of his "revisionist" writings including Annales d'Histoire Révisionniste.

You mentioned one book. What are the titles of the several other books? Please, if you're going to make accusations to defame a great intellect like Noam Chomsky, you need to be more specific. In fact, to put it quite bluntly, why dont you be EXACT.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
Watch the documentary, "The Manufacturing of Consent", And you will find that Noam openly criticizes the mainstream media for being corporate lapdogs. This is primarily why he's worked through the alternative media outlets. And even though he's been offered prime-time slot, TV interviews, he has turned them down because he doesn't regard them as having any integrity.

Allright I'll take you up on that, I like to think I'm a reasonable person, though were would I go about finding said documentary? Mind you I'm in Israel.

From what I have read about him and from the preface he wrote for Faurisson, has left an impression on me. I cant see a person that would go to such lengths to defend free speech in the name of holocaust deniers. But as I said I'll take you up on that.

Have you ever read Partners in hate: Noam Chomsky and the Holocaust deniers, by Werner Cohn? It is an eye opening book.
 
I think it's unlikely that your going to get a satisfactory answer to that, as Superskippy has demonstrated his lack of ability to substantiate his claims, and to be honest, I don't think he really cares that much.

His made it clear that his only foundation for his 'views' are simply based on a bit of reading (and repeating) of a few so-called 'anti-chomsky' groups and their poor claims, dubious techniques and vile words (all manifestly reflected in Superskippy's sentences.)

Manufacturing Consent, by the way..a very good documentary.
 
superskippy said:
Allright I'll take you up on that, I like to think I'm a reasonable person, though were would I go about finding said documentary? Mind you I'm in Israel.

From what I have read about him and from the preface he wrote for Faurisson, has left an impression on me. I cant see a person that would go to such lengths to defend free speech in the name of holocaust deniers. But as I said I'll take you up on that.

Have you ever read Partners in hate: Noam Chomsky and the Holocaust deniers, by Werner Cohn? It is an eye opening book.

You may pick up the documentary here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...ref=sr_1_3/102-3141786-8755367?v=glance&s=dvd

There are actually several documentaries out there featuring Noam Chomsky.
If you do any research on who controls the media, invariably, you'll see his name mentioned time and time again.

Manufacturing Consent (required viewing for The Phillip Merrill College of Journalism @ UMD) 1993

Distorted Morality: America's War On Terror, 2002

Power & Terror: Noam Chomsky In Our Times, 2002

Rebel Without A Pause, 2005


... I'll check out your source.
 
Werner Cohns' book, Partners in Hate, lays all its claims on one thing - chomsky is a Holocaust denier by "association"..thats it..you can simply forget the premise of proof, because Werner doesn't provide it, and, again, doesn't really care that much about it.

To fill in the gaps, he simply piles in as much Chomsky-the-anti-jew-anti-israel, anti-US smear as he see's fit to, and he's not economic about it.
 
Noam Chomsky, Is quite possibly the most important intellectual of out time.

superskippy said:
Allright I'll take you up on that, I like to think I'm a reasonable person, though were would I go about finding said documentary? Mind you I'm in Israel.

From what I have read about him and from the preface he wrote for Faurisson, has left an impression on me. I cant see a person that would go to such lengths to defend free speech in the name of holocaust deniers. But as I said I'll take you up on that.

Have you ever read Partners in hate: Noam Chomsky and the Holocaust deniers, by Werner Cohn? It is an eye opening book.

FYI - Chomsky wrote that so called "preface" before there was ever a book. He is asked about it in the documentary. Naively, he told the Faurisson's lawyer that they could use the statement however they saw fit. Unfortunately, it was put out of context and he received a lot of negative press for it. And defending free speech has nothing to do with wether you like the other person's point of view. It has everything to do with the principle. If you allow one unpopular view to be suppressed, you allow a dangerous precedent to be set. For if censorship is allowed, then you do not have free speech. For example, today an Aryan was voicing his opinions in another thread. A certain moderator (who i will not name) was saying how his views should not be tolerated. So, I had to step in and break this very same principle down to him. After an hour or so of banter, we finally came to agree on my point. Does this mean I am a supremacist because I think a supremacist should be able to voice their opinion? Hell no. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I am the most liberal "multiculturist" type you'll probably ever meet. However, if I allow the supremacist to be silenced, then what is to say that my opinion won't be the next to be hushed? It really is a very basic principle. And it's one that unfortunately, many people do not understand. If I hate anything, it's racism. Yet, I support their rights. That doesn't make me less liberal, does it? No! In fact it only confirms my ethical grounds. The only thing that protects you from loosing your rights is standing up for others, regardless of what your opinion is of them... Because if ethics and reason do not prevail over emotion, then you have no basis for law.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
You mentioned one book. What are the titles of the several other books? Please, if you're going to make accusations to defame a great intellect like Noam Chomsky, you need to be more specific. In fact, to put it quite bluntly, why dont you be EXACT.

I don't think anyone has put Chomsky's "intellect" in question.
 
In any discussion about antisemitism, it seems the level at which people set the bar is indicative of their own sensitivity on the subject. For some, nothing short of advocating the extermination of all Jews qualifies, while for others, any criticism of Sharon might qualify. I haven't seen too much of the latter, mind you, but I have seen plenty examples of the former over the years, and one favorite tactic of antisemites is to portray the reactions to their antisemitism as being overly sensitive.

AS to whether Jews can also be antisemitic, I might offer the name of one Israel Shahak as an example of such, and so I reject the notion that Chomsky cannot possibly be an antisemite if based upon his ethnicity alone. His rhetorec is certainy suspect in my book, and shows such a lack of fairness as to indicate quite a bias. When people are obviously biased against the one Jewish state in the entire world, I would think it natural to question why, and especially as Chomsky indulges in apologia for the likes of Pol Pot, I certainly question his motivations.

Chomsky is certainly an intellectual, but that should not place him on a pedistal, nor does it mean that he is original in his "insights". In fact, his world observations are so predictable that I would think most other intellectuals would write him off as an idealogue rather than a truth seeker -- more of a propagandist than anything else -- and the fact that there are so many Chomsky clones in academia speaks more of ultraconformity and lack of intellectual honesty than it does anything inherently brilliant about his actual rhetorec. The man is a linguist, and while he is certainly a giant in that particular field, I would think this should give folks a clue as to how to deconstruct his rhetorec when he indulges in politics. He is a man who begins from the standpoint of promoting ideology and then uses his considerable linguistic skills in pursuit of influence rather than a man who views the world with an open mind.

It is the confluence of his own ideology with that of the Islamists (his authoritarian leftist hatred for anything associated with the west in alignment with the Islamist totalitarian hatred for the same) that gives rise to statements either bordering upon antisemitism or antisemitic depending upon one's sensitivity and point of view. Ideas tend to cross pollinate as it were, and it is through the admixture of the rhetorec of the Islamists and the authoritarian leftists where the antisemitic notions are spreading. Call it the new antisemitism if you wish, but while the uberleftist version may be more slippery than that of the right, and more Arabist in nature than classic European, I would think if people would just question a little more and accept without qualification a little less, they might see it too.
 
Gardener said:
In any discussion about antisemitism, it seems the level at which people set the bar is indicative of their own sensitivity on the subject. For some, nothing short of advocating the extermination of all Jews qualifies, while for others, any criticism of Sharon might qualify. I haven't seen too much of the latter, mind you, but I have seen plenty examples of the former over the years, and one favorite tactic of antisemites is to portray the reactions to their antisemitism as being overly sensitive.

AS to whether Jews can also be antisemitic, I might offer the name of one Israel Shahak as an example of such, and so I reject the notion that Chomsky cannot possibly be an antisemite if based upon his ethnicity alone. His rhetorec is certainy suspect in my book, and shows such a lack of fairness as to indicate quite a bias. When people are obviously biased against the one Jewish state in the entire world, I would think it natural to question why, and especially as Chomsky indulges in apologia for the likes of Pol Pot, I certainly question his motivations.

Chomsky is certainly an intellectual, but that should not place him on a pedistal, nor does it mean that he is original in his "insights". In fact, his world observations are so predictable that I would think most other intellectuals would write him off as an idealogue rather than a truth seeker -- more of a propagandist than anything else -- and the fact that there are so many Chomsky clones in academia speaks more of ultraconformity and lack of intellectual honesty than it does anything inherently brilliant about his actual rhetorec. The man is a linguist, and while he is certainly a giant in that particular field, I would think this should give folks a clue as to how to deconstruct his rhetorec when he indulges in politics. He is a man who begins from the standpoint of promoting ideology and then uses his considerable linguistic skills in pursuit of influence rather than a man who views the world with an open mind.

It is the confluence of his own ideology with that of the Islamists (his authoritarian leftist hatred for anything associated with the west in alignment with the Islamist totalitarian hatred for the same) that gives rise to statements either bordering upon antisemitism or antisemitic depending upon one's sensitivity and point of view. Ideas tend to cross pollinate as it were, and it is through the admixture of the rhetorec of the Islamists and the authoritarian leftists where the antisemitic notions are spreading. Call it the new antisemitism if you wish, but while the uberleftist version may be more slippery than that of the right, and more Arabist in nature than classic European, I would think if people would just question a little more and accept without qualification a little less, they might see it too.

Noam is anti-alotofthings, however, to paint him as an anti-semite you are going to have to stretch. If you call his distaste for jewish machismo anti-semitism, then I guess you can call him an anti-semite if it suits you. In my opinion, anti-semitisim means nazi, or jew-hater. It is definitely a stretch if you are arguing that Noam hates jews. It's safe to say he is a master of rhetoric, and uses is mastery to argue his ideas. But, jew-hating is not on that list of ideas. He opposes corporate domination of politics and media more than anything. Over sensitive semites are on patrol for anything remotely representing resentment toward their race. If nations constantly tried to exterminate my race, I would probably be overly cautious as well. But come on now, lets not kid ourselves. You should be more worried about the National Socialists than Noam Chomsky, a 90 year old linguist professor at M.I.T. :lol:
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
Noam is anti-alotofthings, however, to paint him as an anti-semite you are going to have to stretch. If you call his distaste for jewish machismo anti-semitism, then I guess you can call him an anti-semite if it suits you. In my opinion, anti-semitisim means nazi, or jew-hater. It is definitely a stretch if you are arguing that Noam hates jews. It's safe to say he is a master of rhetoric, and uses is mastery to argue his ideas. But, jew-hating is not on that list of ideas. He opposes corporate domination of politics and media more than anything. Over sensitive semites are on patrol for anything remotely representing resentment toward their race. If nations constantly tried to exterminate my race, I would probably be overly cautious as well. But come on now, lets not kid ourselves. You should be more worried about the National Socialists than Noam Chomsky, a 90 year old linguist professor at M.I.T. :lol:

Even if he's not an anti-semite he's still a terrorist sympathiser screw um.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Even if he's not an anti-semite he's still a terrorist sympathiser screw um.

Do you have any facts to support your theory, or is that just your opinion? I'll guess the latter.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
In my opinion, anti-semitisim means nazi, or jew-hater.


Actually, the term predates the rise of the National socialists. It was first coined as a way to try to legitimize hatred of Jews through a sort of political correctness where the words were changed to sound pseudo-scientific in order to mask the underlying attitude. A similar transformation has occured through seizing upon the phrase "anti Zionist" in that poeple hold the same attitudes but try to sheild themselves from the reaction to these attitudes through the use of specious linguistics.

I tend more toward the attitude that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I don't worry too much whether other people want to call it "intellectual", "Anti imperialist", "Anti Zionist" or anything else, as I just call it a duck.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:

Do you have any facts to support your theory, or is that just your opinion? I'll guess the latter.

Well his articles for one, here's one written on September 12th 2001, in it he definately rationalizes acts of terrorism against the U.S. which in my book makes him a sympathiser.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20010912.htm
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Well his articles for one, here's one written on September 12th 2001, in it he definately rationalizes acts of terrorism against the U.S. which in my book makes him a sympathiser.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20010912.htm

A good article indeed. However, it does not support your opinion of Noam Chomsky.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
A good article indeed. However, it does not support your opinion of Noam Chomsky.

How so? This article clearly rationalizes 9-11 as a justifide response to the U.S. foriegn policy in the mid-east, how can it be taken for anything but what it is? A deliberate use of the worst kind of double speak saying: "oh I'm sorry about 9-11 but you deserved it and here's why," is so overtly terrorist sympathising it's a wonder to me how you don't you see it.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
How so? This article clearly rationalizes 9-11 as a justifide response to the U.S. foriegn policy in the mid-east, how can it be taken for anything but what it is? A deliberate use of the worst kind of double speak saying: "oh I'm sorry about 9-11 but you deserved it and here's why," is so overtly terrorist sympathising it's a wonder to me how you don't you see it.

This article simply put's the 9-11 attrocity into perspective. In no way is Noam justifying or sympathising with terrorists. Naom does this because the media does not. If Americans knew the attrocities we inflict on other nations, we would not have been so surprised and so under prepared to deal with 9/11.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:

This article simply put's the 9-11 attrocity into perspective. In no way is Noam justifying or sympathising with terrorists. Naom does this because the media does not. If Americans knew the attrocities we inflict on other nations, we would not have been so surprised and so under prepared to deal with 9/11.

You're trying to avoid the issue here, by rationalizing and injecting a sense of moral equivalency b/w 911 and U.S. foriegn policy it is very much sympathising with the terrorists, it gives their claims credance and credibility.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
You're trying to avoid the issue here, by rationalizing and injecting a sense of moral equivalency b/w 911 and U.S. foriegn policy it is very much sympathising with the terrorists, it gives their claims credance and credibility.

How so? I simply do not see how this article does anything of the sort. Please explain what part of the article makes you think Chomsky sympathises with terrorists.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
How so? I simply do not see how this article does anything of the sort. Please explain what part of the article makes you think Chomsky sympathises with terrorists.

Describing "The wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated people," he writes that "this is not the war of democracy versus terror that the world will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia - paid and uniformed by America's Israeli ally - hacking and raping and murdering their way through refugee camps." And much more.

This is a classic example of rationalizing acts of terrorism for U.S. support of Israel if I didn't know this was from Chomsky I would have sworn it was off of OBL's sound clips.

I was going to look for more examples of Chomsky's rationalizing and sympathising with terrorists in the article but then I read the article again and realized that then I would have to put in the whole thing, basically it reads like this: "ya 911 sucked but you deserved it."
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Describing "The wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated people," he writes that "this is not the war of democracy versus terror that the world will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia - paid and uniformed by America's Israeli ally - hacking and raping and murdering their way through refugee camps." And much more.

This is a classic example of rationalizing acts of terrorism for U.S. support of Israel if I didn't know this was from Chomsky I would have sworn it was off of OBL's sound clips.

I was going to look for more examples of Chomsky's rationalizing and sympathising with terrorists in the article but then I read the article again and realized that then I would have to put in the whole thing, basically it reads like this: "ya 911 sucked but you deserved it."

Interesting. I get the impression it says, "9/11 happend because we **** on the muslims" Maybe if we didn't **** on muslims we wouldn't have had to watch those towers come down. Maybe you should write to Noam and ask him. I seriously think you are reading into this article too much. You are reading in between the lines, rather than just reading the lines. Read up on Noam's back ground and education, I think then you'll begin to understand him. I assure you, he is not sympathising with terrorism. He merely appraoches it from a different angle than you are accustomed to hearing. If one does not examine the other side of the coin, then how can one know what is behind it? Does Chomsky take an unpopular appraoch? Yes. However, someone needs to do it, since the media obviously is afraid do it. Even Congress is afraid to stand up against the charade. Our leaders are failing us. At least we have intellectuals who have not lost their backbone. I say Noam Chomsky is hero for having the strength to call a duck a duck. He calls it as he sees it, not how the media, the government, or dogmatic right would have him see it.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
He calls it as he sees it, not how the media, the government, or dogmatic right would have him see it.[/COLOR]


What you are failing to realize is that he represents the dogmatic left, as his brand of authoritarian leftist b.s. is just as fundamentalist as anything coming from the right.

If you consider anybody who objects to Chomsky's hyperbolic polemics to be dogmatic right by very definition, perhaps you have created some false dichotomies there. I know Bush said "you are either with us or against us", but believe me, there are always different approaches that one can take, including the rejection of extreme dogma from both ends of the political spectrum rather than clinging to one as a reaction to the other. If people were to view the world in shades of grey rather than absolutes, perhaps what Chomsky represents would sink in a little better.

I happen to think it is quite possible to reject the policies of the Bush administraton without having to embrace the likes of Chomsky. As far as I'm concerned, it is this increasing polarity in American politics that disturbs me more than anything else, and the Chomskyites simply feed the fears of the similarly radical right (Coulterians, anybody?) , which in turn feeds the fears of the increasingly radical left. It's like watching a pendulum swinging ever wider.

and weirder.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
Interesting. I get the impression it says, "9/11 happend because we **** on the muslims" Maybe if we didn't **** on muslims we wouldn't have had to watch those towers come down. Maybe you should write to Noam and ask him. I seriously think you are reading into this article too much. You are reading in between the lines, rather than just reading the lines. Read up on Noam's back ground and education, I think then you'll begin to understand him. I assure you, he is not sympathising with terrorism. He merely appraoches it from a different angle than you are accustomed to hearing. If one does not examine the other side of the coin, then how can one know what is behind it? Does Chomsky take an unpopular appraoch? Yes. However, someone needs to do it, since the media obviously is afraid do it. Even Congress is afraid to stand up against the charade. Our leaders are failing us. At least we have intellectuals who have not lost their backbone. I say Noam Chomsky is hero for having the strength to call a duck a duck. He calls it as he sees it, not how the media, the government, or dogmatic right would have him see it.

You can't find the solution if you're looking at the wrong problem, the problem is radical islamic fascists who are trying to form a pan-Islamic arab state, take a look on my thread in the war on terror section of how this new form of Islam has a direct link to nazi ideology. Of course U.S. foriegn policy isn't perfect but to use it as justification for acts of terrorism is turnspeak at it's worst. You blame the victim for the actions of the aggressor, this is the same tactic that nazi Germany used in it's justifications for invading Poland. It was b.s. then and it's b.s. now. We have to look into the inherently flawed and corrupt institutions found within the middle east, until the arabs are ready to have some introspection into their own problems rather than to blame the west for every ill, injustice and wrong which they have suffered, they will only serve to perpetuate their own suffering and oppression.

Google turn speak it's yet another link to radical islam and nazi ideology
 
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Are there any anarcho-syndicalists in here that can explain how that philosophy can work? I only bring it up because Chomsky believes in it.
 
Gardener said:
What you are failing to realize is that he represents the dogmatic left, as his brand of authoritarian leftist b.s. is just as fundamentalist as anything coming from the right.

If you consider anybody who objects to Chomsky's hyperbolic polemics to be dogmatic right by very definition, perhaps you have created some false dichotomies there. I know Bush said "you are either with us or against us", but believe me, there are always different approaches that one can take, including the rejection of extreme dogma from both ends of the political spectrum rather than clinging to one as a reaction to the other. If people were to view the world in shades of grey rather than absolutes, perhaps what Chomsky represents would sink in a little better.

I happen to think it is quite possible to reject the policies of the Bush administraton without having to embrace the likes of Chomsky. As far as I'm concerned, it is this increasing polarity in American politics that disturbs me more than anything else, and the Chomskyites simply feed the fears of the similarly radical right (Coulterians, anybody?) , which in turn feeds the fears of the increasingly radical left. It's like watching a pendulum swinging ever wider.

and weirder.

Well, anyone who takes Coulter seriously is a hate-monger. That's all she spews, blatant hate and insults. I don't take her seriously, or find any reason to be afraid of what she represents because she is nuts. I think most people on the right would rather she not say anything at all because she makes them look bad. I don't think the extreme right would say she represents the extreme right. They would probably say she represents the lunatic fringe.

Chomsky, on the other hand, is a great intellect and dissenting voice. He does not preach hate. He simply examines issues in an unpopular fashion. Most people can not handle the truth. Chomsky, simply considers all parts and factors of an issue to come to a conclusion, rather than one half of an argument which most partisan players do. Coulter, included. To say he spreads dogma is not correct. If he spread dogma, he would say here is X, this is the way you look at X, there is no other way to look at X. I would say his readers are much more intelligent than that. Unlike, Coulters crowd.
 
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