Is beating children ever acceptable?

[Moot]

Exactly. 1 yes, 2 never. Sometimes a child needs the discipline that comes with proper corporal punishment, sometimes it's all that'll 'get through to them'.

Something I think we've lost over the years of liberal /progressive indoctrination.

Corporal punishment? I had to look it up....

cor·po·ral pun·ish·ment

noun

physical punishment, such as caning or flogging.

•punishment under law that includes imprisonment and death.

Well, I certainly don't agree with that.

 

[Henrin]

Well, that's what I say about the death penalty, Henrin. Killing somebody who kills somebody to show that killing people is wrong is stupid. So is spanking little Susie to teach her that hitting her little brother is wrong.

The death penalty doesn't actually act as a deterrent to crime and hitting Susie has a considerably good chance of causing more bad behavior in the long run. Also, I fail to understand how hitting Susie teaches her that hitting her brother is wrong. Why is it ok for you to hit her, but wrong for her to hit her brother? Don't you see the hole in your logic?

 

[JC Callender]

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

I don't like the word "beating," which is over the line, IMO, not only for children but for adults. To me it means using fists to injure, but spanking means using an open palm on a child's behind - and I earned my share of those as a young child! Us kids quickly learned that we'd better obey our parents! :mrgreen:

I would give anything to see you as a kid! I'll bet you were classy and gracious even back then. :yes:

 

[TheGoverness]

I am in agreement with you. If I ever decide to adopt some kids, I certainly won't be spanking them.
I've been slapped by my parents before, and that experience basically changed my whole perspective on things.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Define "beating".



Spanking, in a controlled manner that won't cause lasting injury? Yes, this is an appropriate tool in the parental toolbox for children under 12 and offenses such as safety issues or defiance.


Beating, as in an unregulated and unrestrained unleashing of violence on the child by the adult? Likely to cause significant or lasting injury? No, this is never right.

I disagree about corporal punishment. What we are really talking about, if it were between adults, is pain oriented compliance. We have no idea how this 6 year old got to that point, but I suggest if he had been subjected to more 'creative' forms of correction we may not be talking about a violent reaction.

Somewhere the along the line, the cycle of violence has to be broken. I came from a very violent atmosphere, surrounded by alcoholics and beset with an abusive older brother. The Strap was the method of both teaching and punishment, only the nuns never spanked on the ass, they just used a really big ruler. The only way I can think of how to break that cycle is being an example the best I can. With my wife's help, we raised two wonderful daughters who were never touched.

As a society, Canada is learning that jail is a very poor form of correcting a wrong. I believe we need keep in mind that righting a wrong is the objective, and that physical punishment does nothing toward that end.

 

[nota bene]

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

:agree: I don't like the word "beating," which is over the line, IMO, not only for children but for adults. To me it means using fists to injure, but spanking means using an open palm on a child's behind - and I earned my share of those as a young child! Us kids quickly learned that we'd better obey our parents! :mrgreen:

My sister and I were required to choose between "Mr. Black Belt" and "Mr. Brown Belt." (Whatever; they were identical save for color, so this just adds to my adult perception of this as psychological torture.) I never forgot. When a belt is used--a weapon--to me this is a "beating."

But I am a fan of the mighty hand of destiny. You can't reason with a toddler. First time one of mine reached for a pot handle on the stove was my "first time." :mrgreen:

 

[Absentglare]

Corporal punishment? I had to look it up....





Well, I certainly don't agree with that.

In general, punishments, used alone, will primarily teach the recipient to not get caught.

Singapore is interesting, they have surprisingly uniform compliance by providing ridiculously severe penalties for even the most petty of crimes.

 

[Paleocon]

I always thought that any child abuse is unacceptable. But a great moral authority thinks differently. The group MUH Men's Rights Activism is a Feminist Facebook page concerned with countering negative representation of Feminism.

They had interesting comments about a video of a six year old boy slapping his mother:
View attachment 67202164

Injuring a child is not acceptable. Moderate physical discipline is.

How in the **** is spankings not the same ****ing thing as assault? I mean sure, the law allows it, but ****ing hell, it's the same ****ing thing. :lol:

Authority. It's different because the parent has authority over the kid.

Any adult who beats a child is just closing the circle, continuing the cycle.
Why, in God's name, should something that would get you charged with a crime if you did it to an adult, be acceptable if you do it to one of the most helpless, most defenseless members of our community?

Authority. Parents have authority over their children. This is why they can strike them.

The death penalty doesn't actually act as a deterrent to crime and hitting Susie has a considerably good chance of causing more bad behavior in the long run. Also, I fail to understand how hitting Susie teaches her that hitting her brother is wrong. Why is it ok for you to hit her, but wrong for her to hit her brother? Don't you see the hole in your logic?

The parent has authority over her. She doesn't have authority over her brother. That's why.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I am in agreement with you. If I ever decide to adopt some kids, I certainly won't be spanking them.
I've been slapped by my parents before, and that experience basically changed my whole perspective on things.

Two friends of mine are doing that. They've been accepted [we've had same sex couples for many years now] but the waiting list is huge. It really surprised the hell out of me, with all the abortions going on and some wonderful people who would make great parents have to grow old waiting.

Sometimes life's ironies really suck

 

[nota bene]

In general, punishments, used alone, will primarily teach the recipient to not get caught.

And to fear but not respect the parent.

 

[Fearandloathing]

In general, punishments, used alone, will primarily teach the recipient to not get caught.

Singapore is interesting, they have surprisingly uniform compliance by providing ridiculously severe penalties for even the most petty of crimes.

We're looking at a very old culture in that case. We just had a Vancouverite get lashed for having damaged the paint on a car when he was drunk. The strange thing is you find very few Singaporians immigrating. I have been told they simply can't handle a free society, they see us as living in chaos.

 

[nota bene]

The death penalty doesn't actually act as a deterrent to crime and hitting Susie has a considerably good chance of causing more bad behavior in the long run. Also, I fail to understand how hitting Susie teaches her that hitting her brother is wrong. Why is it ok for you to hit her, but wrong for her to hit her brother? Don't you see the hole in your logic?

The point, Henrin, is that it's NOT okay to hit your kid to teach her that hitting another kid is wrong.

 

[Fearandloathing]

The point, Henrin, is that it's NOT okay to hit your kid to teach her that hitting another kid is wrong.

:lamo

 

[Moot]

In general, punishments, used alone, will primarily teach the recipient to not get caught.

Singapore is interesting, they have surprisingly uniform compliance by providing ridiculously severe penalties for even the most petty of crimes.

I've heard about Singapore....something about chewing gum is a prison offense. I'm sure it's very clean there...but not much fun.

I used to watch those "nanny" shows and if there's one thing I learned it's usually the parent's lack of consistency in dealing with children. Without it, the child gets mixed messages and then gets frustrated and then starts trying to push buttons and boundaries.

 

[Henrin]

Authority. It's different because the parent has authority over the kid.

Authority comes with responsibility and part of the responsibility of a parent is to look out for the safety of their children. Causing them physical and mental harm is doing the opposite.

The parent has authority over her. She doesn't have authority over her brother. That's why.

Spanking a child for anti-social behavior will only increase the behavior. The more times you hit a child the more they will hit others. You won't solve hitting with hitting.

 

[polgara]

I would give anything to see you as a kid! I'll bet you were classy and gracious even back then. :yes:

Greetings, JC. :2wave:

Nope, I was stubborn! :lol: When I persisted in throwing a ball against the house - after I broke the same window for the second time - which earned me a spanking that time - I'm sure my dad wondered where he had failed . . :mrgreen: I never did it again after that! Ouch!

 

[Henrin]

The point, Henrin, is that it's NOT okay to hit your kid to teach her that hitting another kid is wrong.

Yeah, I misread your post. lol. :3oops:

 

[JC Callender]

Greetings, JC. :2wave:

Nope, I was stubborn! :lol: When I persisted in throwing a ball against the house - after I broke the same window for the second time - which earned me a spanking that time - I'm sure my dad wondered where he had failed . . :mrgreen: I never did it again after that! Ouch!

:lol: How old were you?

 

[TheGoverness]

Two friends of mine are doing that. They've been accepted [we've had same sex couples for many years now] but the waiting list is huge. It really surprised the hell out of me, with all the abortions going on and some wonderful people who would make great parents have to grow old waiting.

Sometimes life's ironies really suck

Well adopting children is something I'm still considering, as I haven't really decided if I even want to have children anyways. And even if I eventually decide to, it's gonna be a good while from now, as I'm way too young and I just graduated from high school.

 

[Goshin]

I disagree about corporal punishment. What we are really talking about, if it were between adults, is pain oriented compliance. We have no idea how this 6 year old got to that point, but I suggest if he had been subjected to more 'creative' forms of correction we may not be talking about a violent reaction.

Somewhere the along the line, the cycle of violence has to be broken. I came from a very violent atmosphere, surrounded by alcoholics and beset with an abusive older brother. The Strap was the method of both teaching and punishment, only the nuns never spanked on the ass, they just used a really big ruler. The only way I can think of how to break that cycle is being an example the best I can. With my wife's help, we raised two wonderful daughters who were never touched.

As a society, Canada is learning that jail is a very poor form of correcting a wrong. I believe we need keep in mind that righting a wrong is the objective, and that physical punishment does nothing toward that end.

Given your background, I'd be surprised if you weren't opposed to corporeal punishment.


I grew up in an Ozzie and Harriet, Father Knows Best, Leave it To Beaver home, 1950's idyllic. Well, more or less. My parents were teetotalers and if they weren't perfect, by gawd they weren't too far from it. They were quite strict and did not tolerate disobedience or back talk, and yes they used corporeal punishment sometimes, but they were also very loving, kind, generous, cheerful, happy, and mostly reasonable.

They just expected their kids to behave and do as they were told, and enforced this as necessary... but never in an abusive or excessive manner.



I raised my son in a very similar fashion.



So we come at this from two very different perspectives, two very different backgrounds.


Now to clarify my position, I do not espouse spanking as a general or common punishment. IMO it should be rare, and reserved for major offenses or times when nothing else is working. Safety issues (child runs into the street without looking), or open defiance, yes. Passive defiance of a repetitive nature (ie been told three times, still haven't complied despite warning) in some cases.

But not as a general or common form of discipline. Some children are relatively easy to raise and never require it. Others are nearly impossible to manage if not spanked occasionally. It depends.


Crossing the line into abuse is always wrong, though. IMHO the big metal ruler across the knuckles (or face) was abusive and should not be allowed; and even when applied to the buttocks one should use something flexible and "stingy" that will not leave lasting bruises. The object is to make a lesson/order memorable by associating disobedience with pain, and a reminder that bad behavior has unpleasant consequences. As Nota noted, you can't reason with a toddler, and it is better that they suffer a stinging sensation about the heiney than get run over by a car, no?


But to each his own; I understand you have your reasons for your position.

 

[Grand Mal]

Injuring a child is not acceptable. Moderate physical discipline is.



Authority. It's different because the parent has authority over the kid.



Authority. Parents have authority over their children. This is why they can strike them.



The parent has authority over her. She doesn't have authority over her brother. That's why.

Police have authority over you, do they have the right to strike you? Would a road-side spanking be preferable to a fine?

 

[polgara]

:lol: How old were you?

I think I was about five years old, and I tried to negotiate by again saying I was sorry, and I would try to earn the money to buy new glass, but he didn't think so.... :mrgreen:

 

[Goshin]

Police have authority over you, do they have the right to strike you? Would a road-side spanking be preferable to a fine?

Adult =/= Minor.


Child brain < Adult Brain.



Ever tried reasoning with a 3 year old in a snit? May as well debate philosophy with a tomcat.

 

[SCitizen]

Injuring a child is not acceptable. Moderate physical discipline is.

I am not sure. But definitely beating out of anger is abuse.

 

[Nilly]

It really makes no sense to say you can't hit anyone, but if you have a kid then you can hit them. Why the exception? What in the ****ing hell is children the exception to be hit? They apparently have so little rights in the country that it's ok to hit them. Goofy ****.

I never thought this day would come but I completely agree with Henrin.

Hitting children has been proven to be no more effective then other forms of punishment. We don't even beat adults who commit crimes, so what justification is there for beating children?

Ever tried reasoning with a 3 year old in a snit? May as well debate philosophy with a tomcat.

There are ways to assert authority without having to reason or resort to hitting. Ask any good kindergarten teacher. Surely you'd be horrified if you saw one spanking your 5 year old??