Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever justifie

[ProudAmerican]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

Can you show me a link where they say that........They are the neighbors of NK..........They have much more to lose then we do.........

I agree. I agree almost to the extent that I think America should bow out of this one completely.

Let their neighbors worry about the problem, and when NK does the unthinkable, lets see who the rest of the world begs for help.

America should (possibly, I dont know for sure) stay out of this UNTILL NK HAS THE CAPABILITY to deliver the weapon to our shores.

Left France worry about NK. Let the UN worry about them. they all have such a wonderful, proven track record.

:mrgreen:

 

[Captain America]

I am sorry he has fooled you my friend.........He has followed me around from other forums like Whistlestopper like a puppy dog.....................He enjoys taking one side of the issue on one thread and taking the other side.......You have a lot of people on ignore.........If you didn't you would see he aligns himself with them on many occasions..........

Just don't turn you back on him my friend.......

Prove it.

There are no shortages of people on this forum who have come out and called you an outright liar.

I will not go as far as to call you that. Instead, I will give you a prime oppertunity.

Prove to us you are not lying now.

Prove it.

 

[Navy Pride]

that may be, but so far I havent seen it. and it could be for the reasons you say.

I like who I like, and I wont be swayed by anyone other than THAT person.

I think much of what you say is dead on accurate as well. I like many of your ideas. I wont apologize for that no matter how much some individuals want to paint me as a "neocon" or "radical right wing nut"

I like your stands on the issues too..........I just think when you put people on ignore you miss a lot of the debate...............Although I have been tempted to put people like CA and 26 Champs on ignore because all they do is insult and call names I have resisted the urge........

Keep up the good fight my friend.....There are a lot of us here who agree with you....:cheers: :ind: :2usflag:

 

[Navy Pride]

Prove it.

There are no shortages of people on this forum who have come out and called you an outright liar.

I will not go as far as to call you that. Instead, I will give you a prime oppertunity.

Prove to us you are not lying now.

Prove it.

Only Liberals like you.:rofl

Now back to the topic at hand............

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

What the hell?
This is your attempt at trying to keep the partisan bickering (started by ProudAmerican and encouraged by you) going?
Sad attempt. You'll have to try better than this.

I know the truth hurts Caine........

Man that is the pot calling the kettle black.......:roll:

 

[ProudAmerican]

I think this should have never turned into anything "personal" with anyone in this thread.

I certainly NEVER SINGLED OUT ANY ONE PERSON.

I believe Caine was the first one to do that.

Lets get back on topic and stop with the personal stuff.

I made reference to the radical left wing only. no one inparticular. It would be nice if everyone could do the same.

 

[Hobbes]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

By making the poll such an absolute where you're asking if its "ever" justified, the results really seem pointless either way. There's always going to be some theoretical situation where the threat outweighs all potential problems. But that's not the reality we live in, the pros and cons fall much closer to each other making the decision much more difficult.

 

[Captain America]

I would agree that Japan and China and Europe should be more concerned than we are but let's not forget that we do have a large military contingency based in SK and NK is on record threatening war on our soil.

So, we just can't turn our back and walk away.

I am hoping China gives them the beotch slapping they deserve. Reality has come home to roost and appearantly the Chinese eyes are no longer as squinted as they once was according to their recent condemnation of NK. Or, that could all just be lip service who knows?

One thing for sure, this is NOT a good thing for NK to have nukes. Somebody, somewhere will have to address this sooner or later and the sooner the better. A unified coalition is the best way to go IMHO. We can't handle this one alone. But I'm sure we will if we have to.

 

[Caine]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

I can only hope to be as bi partisan as you are. :roll:

Thats right, everyone should strive to be like me.. :rofl

the fact that you want to play dumb and act like you have never seen any of those posts by any of those people makes me wonder if you are as much of a "centrist" as you want people to think you are.

On this specific topic. No. I haven't.

tell us ohhh bi partisan one.....

Yes my child?

should we have acted pre-emptively with Iraq? or waited untill after they had the same technology that NK now posesses?

That depends on if we had solid, undeniable evidence of thier desire and effort to possess this technology. But, since it has been argued that the administration "selectively" viewed intelligence reports, we can't answer this question with accuracy now can we?

also, someone mentioned in another post today that they wondered where your input was when a leftist made a partisan comment.

I think it was a great point.

I have yet to see you call a left leaning individual out when they make a partisan statement.....but you sure as hell are awful quick to jump on the right when they do it.

yeah, your right down the ole middle.

Yes well, this was not a partisan bickering fight until the 2nd post. Most of the time I call people out ...(goobieman) due to the fact that they ruined a bi-partisan thread with partisan bickering. Some threads are made for partisan bickering, you've seen them. They consist of certain polls that are set up to mock the left or mock the right, etc. You get my drift.
I don't see very many honest threads that get derailed dut to partisan bickering from the left. That doesn't mean they don't happen, and sometimes I skip forward before I get a chance to notice it.

But, just for you.. I'll make sure I keep my eyes open for it. :mrgreen:

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

It is absolutely justified to do so.

No person, no organization, no nation should have the means to bring about the extinction of humanity-- and although we cannot put the genie back in the bottle, we can damned well keep other people from rubbing it. And if we get the opportunity to forcibly disarm another country, we should absolutely take it.

And the chance of having our own WMD stockpiles utterly destroyed might be the only cause for which I would accept being overrun by foreigners.

 

[Morrow]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

you dont think most people consider information on how to build nuclear weapons given to a communist regime like NK is "classified" ?

interesting.

hell, lets just post it on the internet and furnish every country on the planet with the tools and equipment necessary to complete a nuclear arsenal.

and read this

http://download.premiereradio.net/guest/rushlimb/pdf/nailing.pdf

Thank you for providing information, eventually, as well as your interesting interpretation of what I said.

I’m sorry, but an editorialized “article” called “nailing the left” is hardly what I would consider a reliable source of information.

I can assure you information is not classified on the basis of ‘what a lot of people think it should be’. It is classified under the authority of the President through Executive Order 13292.
I’m not sure that the information associated with building a light water reactor is even classified. And even if it were they already knew how to do it, they were building one.

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/agreedframework.asp

On October 21, 1994, the United States and North Korea signed an agreement-the Agreed Framework-calling upon Pyongyang to freeze operation and construction of nuclear reactors suspected of being part of a covert nuclear weapons program in exchange for two proliferation-resistant nuclear power reactors. The agreement also called upon the United States to supply North Korea with fuel oil pending construction of the reactors. An international consortium called the Korean Peninsula

It is very easy to take a piece of information and place it out of context in an effort to propagandize something or someone. A fact to which I am confident you are fully aware. Why do you have to blame Clinton, or liberals, for everything wrong in the world? Why does NK have nukes, Clinton/liberals. Why is there so much crime in the US, Clinton/liberals. Who started terrorism, Clinton/liberals. Why is this country over run with illegal immigrants, Clinton/liberals. Why does this country have budget problem, Clinton/liberals. Who invented taxes, liberals. Who invented secularism, liberals.

Who killed Jesus, the Romans, but they were probably Democrat ones.

You don’t believe that crap, no one does who isn’t a mental retard(I mean that literally), why do you say it? Why are you trying to 'prove' it?

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

Thank you for providing information, eventually, as well as your interesting interpretation of what I said.

I’m sorry, but an editorialized “article” called “nailing the left” is hardly what I would consider a reliable source of information.

I can assure you information is not classified on the basis of ‘what a lot of people think it should be’. It is classified under the authority of the President through Executive Order 13292.
I’m not sure that the information associated with building a light water reactor is even classified. And even if it were they already knew how to do it, they were building one.


It is very easy to take a piece of information and place it out of context in an effort to propagandize something or someone. A fact to which I am confident you are fully aware. Why do you have to blame Clinton, or liberals, for everything wrong in the world? Why does NK have nukes, Clinton/liberals. Why is there so much crime in the US, Clinton/liberals. Who started terrorism, Clinton/liberals. Why is this country over run with illegal immigrants, Clinton/liberals. Why does this country have budget problem, Clinton/liberals. Who invented taxes, liberals. Who invented secularism, liberals.

Who killed Jesus, the Romans, but they were probably Democrat ones.

You don’t believe that crap, no one does who isn’t a mental retard(I mean that literally), why do you say it? Why are you trying to 'prove' it?

When it comes to liberals and Clinton everything is taken out of context......What is is the definition of IS....

 

[Morrow]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

When it comes to liberals and Clinton everything is taken out of context......What is is the definition of IS....

Your arbitrary categorization of 50% of the US population is inspiring.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

Whats your source on this?

The North Korea advisory group to the Speaker of the House:

North Korea Advisory Group




Report to

The Speaker

U.S. House of Representatives



November 1999

​

Spent Fuel from the Two Light Water Reactors: If the 1994 Agreed Framework is implemented and two LWRs are eventually built and operated in North Korea, the reactors could produce close to 500 kilograms of plutonium in spent reactor fuel each year; enough for nearly 100 bombs annually if North Korea decides to break its obligations and reprocess the material.(23) Such plutonium, while not weapons-grade, can be used to produce nuclear weapons and does not present an overwhelming barrier to those pursuing a dedicated nuclear weapons program.

Those 2 light water reactors were infact provided and funded by the Clinton Administration in exchange for them discontinuing their nuclear weapons program. Well we all know how that turned out:

In an astonishing reversal of nine previous U.S. administrations' policy toward
North Korea, the Clinton-Gore administration, in 1994, committed not only to
provide foreign aid for North Korea, but to earmark that aid primarily for the
construction of nuclear reactors worth up to $6 billion.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nkag-report.htm

 

[Morrow]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

Well we all know how that turned out.

They got a nueclear power plant?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

Do you need the difference between a light water reactor and heavy water reactor explained to you?

'

No but obviuosly you do:

Spent Fuel from the Two Light Water Reactors: If the 1994 Agreed Framework is implemented and two LWRs are eventually built and operated in North Korea, the reactors could produce close to 500 kilograms of plutonium in spent reactor fuel each year; enough for nearly 100 bombs annually if North Korea decides to break its obligations and reprocess the material.(23) Such plutonium, while not weapons-grade, can be used to produce nuclear weapons and does not present an overwhelming barrier to those pursuing a dedicated nuclear weapons program.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/14258-preemptive-strike-destroy-nations-nuclear-weapons-capability-ever-justifie-4.html

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

They got a nueclear power plant?

Yep and they used the fissille material to build a nuclear weapon out of the spent reactor fuel plutonium nuclear weapons aren't that hard to make but the fissile material and the nuclear plants to produce it are.

 

[Hobbes]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

'

No but obviuosly you do:

Way to ignore the part about them making heavy water reactors on their own if the agreement hadn't gone through.

Let's recap what you're defending shall we:

That is true and what really hurts is the Clinton adminstration gave them classified info on how to make nukes..........

How does potential spent full, which they never got, equal classified info on nukes???

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

Whats your source on this?

Additionally it is the Presidents choice to disseminate whichever information he likes. So saying it was "classified" is propaganda in an effort to make Clinton look like a traitor. Now the implication is one you may agree with, but most people don't.

You say that as if the President cannot be a traitor. This is patently false.

Giving nuclear secrets to the Chinese (or anyone else) would certainly qualify you as a traitor, regardless of who you are.

 

[Saboteur]

Nothing's going to come out of this besides another arms build up cold war.... Something the suicidal, money grubbing, war mongering, Ronald "I don't recall" Reagan, whack-job neocon's have been wet dreaming about since the fall of communism in Russia.:roll:

How's that for a partisan smack down?

I'm sorry but I'm just sick of this sh!t

Navy, ProudAm, Goobie, Auqa and the rest of you freedom hating double speaking liars need to get off the internet take a shower and go get LAID!!!!

Can't believe I waste my time reading needle dick, pin head, in bred, hate rhetoric straight outta Nazi Germany!

Oh and guys? Take my advice... When you go out looking for women. Leave the white hoods and swastika arm bands at home.

Somebody ban me please!

 

[Goobieman]

Nothing's going to come out of this besides another arms build up cold war.... Something the suicidal, money grubbing, war mongering, Ronald "I don't recall" Reagan, whack-job neocon's have been wet dreaming about since the fall of communism in Russia.:roll:

How's that for a partisan smack down?

I'm sorry but I'm just sick of this sh!t

Navy, ProudAm, Goobie, Auqa and the rest of you freedom hating double speaking liars need to get off the internet take a shower and go get LAID!!!!

Can't believe I waste my time reading needle dick, pin head, in bred, hate rhetoric straight outta Nazi Germany!

Oh and guys? Take my advice... When you go out looking for women. Leave the white hoods and swastika arm bands at home.

Somebody ban me please!

Dont let the door hit you in the a$$...

 

[Saboteur]

Dont let the door hit you in the a$$...

What's that?

I think I hear the grand poobah of your KKK order calling.... Something about you ginin' him a slurpy?

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

Your arbitrary categorization of 50% of the US population is inspiring.

I can guareentee you that 50% of the population is not Liberal.........Its probably around 25%.......

 

[Navy Pride]

Nothing's going to come out of this besides another arms build up cold war.... Something the suicidal, money grubbing, war mongering, Ronald "I don't recall" Reagan, whack-job neocon's have been wet dreaming about since the fall of communism in Russia.:roll:

How's that for a partisan smack down?

I'm sorry but I'm just sick of this sh!t

Navy, ProudAm, Goobie, Auqa and the rest of you freedom hating double speaking liars need to get off the internet take a shower and go get LAID!!!!

Can't believe I waste my time reading needle dick, pin head, in bred, hate rhetoric straight outta Nazi Germany!

Oh and guys? Take my advice... When you go out looking for women. Leave the white hoods and swastika arm bands at home.

Somebody ban me please!

It is against forum rules to insult other members or call them names...Please refrain from doing so.........Thanks

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Re: Is a preemptive strike to destroy a nation's nuclear weapons capability ever just

Way to ignore the part about them making heavy water reactors on their own if the agreement hadn't gone through.

They built them anyways. Basically what we did is hand them modern nuclear technology in return for them not producing dated nuclear technology which they built anyways.