Interview with Black Intern on Zimmerman's Team

[Kal'Stang]

No, I'm saying that you are correct that plenty of people misuse the word. It's just that you refer to that misuse incorrectly as "the definition is changing." It's not. All of you are just wrong, LOL.

So what or when exactly to you is a definition changed via social dynamics?

Well, of course, you would support all these "new" definitions of racism as long as they don't include you. It's convenient - you accept new definitions of racism that are clearly created with non-whites - and particularly blacks - in mind, but you reject definitions that would make you a racist. This is exactly why it's important for people to accept that words have concrete definitions. When they don't, they start defining words according to their confirmation bias as you, Josie and MaggieD have done here. It's hilarious.

No reasonable definition of racism would fit me period. I don't look at peoples skin tones. In fact despite watching all the video's of the trial it wasn't until this thread that I realized that there was a black woman on Z's attorney team. That's how little I look at skin tone.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Perhaps you could state your criticism of the point more clearly, then because its getting lost on me with your grammar nazi act.

When you stop minimizing my criticism, perhaps I'll indulge you. Until then, you'll have to wallow in your intellectual laziness with others.

 

[MaggieD]

There's something to be said for that. Are there any blacks on the state team?

I never paid any attention. To either side.

 

[niff]

This is hilarious, of all the law students and interns to apply for working with MOM and the defense they pick a black girl.


And then some Zimm supporters accuse the state of playing the race angle...heheh.

If the defense had not had a Black person on it YOU would have been screaming your head off about how 'non-inclusive' they were.
There's never any point attempting to reason with you.
Go away. PI.
Oh by the way darling. What color were ALL the State lawyers?????????????? Not trying to play to an 'all-white' women jury???????? Why didn't AC find some nice BLACK lawyers???????????? HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAA. Couldn't find any as smart as Crump? LOLOLOLO????????

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Are we still describing black people on Twitter or have we moved on to you now?

Moderator's Warning:

Stop. Now.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

So what or when exactly to you is a definition changed via social dynamics?

When the "new" definition of the word is actually being used by more than just a specific group of people. The definitions that you, Josie and MaggieD are suggesting tend to be used by a very specific group of (usually) white people in this country. Those people tend to lean conservative and tend to have views on race that benefit white people to the detriment of non-white people. There are also alternative definitions of racism that tend to exist among people who lean liberal - those "new" definitions are also just misuses of the word "racism". Now, if any of those definitions actually become popular throughout society dynamically and not just confined to regular people of particular leans and perspectives, then we can talk about changing the definition.

No reasonable definition of racism would fit me period. I don't look at peoples skin tones. In fact despite watching all the video's of the trial it wasn't until this thread that I realized that there was a black woman on Z's attorney team. That's how little I look at skin tone.

Oh, you're "colorblind" now? That's cute. Does this mean you don't see people's hair color and eye color either? Or are your eyes just unable to see color when it's on skin?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Well, the issue in this thread is that many black people view the Zimmerman case as a symbol of society's acceptance of racial profiling and the deadly consequences such profiling can have for their sons, brothers, nephews and so on. Therefore, when some black people see a black woman working for the man who they believe unjustly murdered a black boy based on racial profiling, they see a woman who is actively working to defend someone who would kill those sons, brothers and nephews if he encountered them on another rain night after being acquitted. Therefore, they criticize her for participating in what they perceive as a defense of ideas that hurt and even kill black people.

That, to me, is not a case of people being bigoted or prejudiced or racialist or racist. I would say that the people making the comments are race conscious. I don't, however, consider race consciousness a bad thing even though I also don't consider their condemnation of the intern a good thing.

It goes deeper than that, IMHO. These same folks, that get all outraged if a non-black kills a black, although very rare, simply blow off the far greater incidences of black on black crime. That is every bit as much "profiling", but based on the "code of the hood", that makes cooperating with police into a worse "crime" worthy of the DP via street justice - you don't rat out a brother/sister no matter what they have done.

I agree that race consiousness can be a good thing but only if you use it for positive reenforcement of those that you wish to help, not by denigrating those that choose to get ahead, even if that means that they do so by particpating on the "wrong" side of a criminal case. This intern is gaining very valuable courtroom experience, and just may use that experience to save their ass one day.

 

[MaggieD]

You are correct. There are plenty of people who misuse the word "racist" just as there are plenty of people who misuse other words. You're all still misusing the word, LOL. Even worse, all three of you are misusing the word in the way that specifically targets non-whites. With that in mind, I think I'm going to go ahead and conclude that all three of you are racists for that reason. After all, that definition of racism is being used by many people across the country. Don't believe me? Do a little private polling.

Won't be the first or last time you've called me racist, PlayDrive. Know what a tinker's dam is? Well, I don't give one.

 

[Psychoclown]

When you stop minimizing my criticism, perhaps I'll indulge you. Until then, you'll have to wallow in your intellectual laziness with others.

Whether you "indulge" me with your blinding brillance or not isn't going keep me up at night. I guess I'll just be content to wallow in my own "intellectual laziness". :roll:

Though the fact that you continue to refuse to directly state your so called point, gives me a good idea of just how valid it is.

 

[Captain America]

Won't be the first or last time you've called me racist, PlayDrive. Know what a tinker's dam is? Well, I don't give one.

What you got against Tinker's?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

It goes deeper than that, IMHO. These same folks, that get all outraged if a non-black kills a black, although very rare, simply blow off the far greater incidences of black on black crime.

We're talking about some black people on Twitter. You have no idea who they are and what they get outraged about beyond what you've seen in their tweets.

That is every bit as much "profiling", but based on the "code of the hood", that makes cooperating with police into a worse "crime" worthy of the DP via street justice - you don't rat out a brother/sister no matter what they have done.

Again, you don't know who these people are so this analysis of imagined hypocrisy is meaningless.

I agree that race consiousness can be a good thing but only if you use it for positive reenforcement of those that you wish to help, not by denigrating those that choose to get ahead, even if that means that they do so by particpating on the "wrong" side of a criminal case. This intern is gaining very valuable courtroom experience, and just may use that experience to save their ass one day.

I don't think that anybody should be denigrating the intern, but I also consider your analysis of people's behavior to be incredibly simplistic. It reads like someone who views the black people as "other" and not as someone who has any interest in truly understanding why some of them could have a legitimate problem with her actions.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Whether you "indulge" me with your blinding brillance or not isn't going keep me up at night. I guess I'll just be content to wallow in my own "intellectual laziness".

Though the fact that you continue to refuse to directly state your so called point, gives me a good idea of just how valid it is.

Do you have a serious comment about my argument on the improper use of the word "racism" ... ? I'm not interested in a pissing contest.

 

[Kal'Stang]

When the "new" definition of the word is actually being used by more than just a specific group of people. The definitions that you, Josie and MaggieD are suggesting tend to be used by a very specific group of (usually) white people in this country. Those people tend to lean conservative and tend to have views on race that benefit white people to the detriment of non-white people. There are also alternative definitions of racism that tend to exist among people who lean liberal - those "new" definitions are also just misuses of the word "racism". Now, if any of those definitions actually become popular throughout society dynamically and not just confined to regular people of particular leans and perspectives, then we can talk about changing the definition.

Then I don't see what your problem is then as those definitions are being used by pretty much all sides from what I have seen.

Oh, you're "colorblind" now? That's cute. Does this mean you don't see people's hair color and eye color either? Or are your eyes just unable to see color when it's on skin?

Never said I was colorblind. Just said that I never noticed it. IE I didn't pay enough attention to it to note it because it wasn't important enough to retain. And I never do.

 

[pragmatic]

Some of you might have noticed her sitting behind the lead lawyers on Zimmerman's side. She volunteered to help with the case.

[video]http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/07/12/erin-mattingly-dnt-zimmermans-legal-intern.cnn.html[/video]

Interesting topic. She appears to be a classy lady.

Sort of a shame the thread got derailed so soon. Probably would have been better to just ignore the dimwit.....

 

[MaggieD]

Interesting topic. She appears to be a classy lady.

Sort of a shame the thread got derailed so soon. Probably would have been better to just ignore the jackass.....

I was actually just thinking about that.

 

[Psychoclown]

Do you have a serious comment about my argument on the improper use of the word "racism" ... ? I'm not interested in a pissing contest.

I'm waiting for you to state an argument. So far you've refused to "indulge" me based on my supposed "intellectual laziness". Which kinda sounds like the things people say in a pissing match. So if you want to state your argument about it, I'm all ears (or eyes since this is an internet forum).

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Then I don't see what your problem is then as those definitions are being used by pretty much all sides from what I have seen.

They aren't being used by "all sides." Your "new" definitions are being used primarily by white, racially ignorant people who lean conservative. Other "new" definitions are being used primarily by multiracial, racially aware people who lean liberal. Both sets of separate "new" definitions are misuses of the term of racism. Both sets are just definitions that people have made up so that they can call people racists who aren't racists. That's the problem. You are all misusing the word in self-serving manners.

Never said I was colorblind. Just said that I never noticed it. IE I didn't pay enough attention to it to note it because it wasn't important enough to retain. And I never do.

Have you been diagnosed with some sort of memory issue revolving around physical traits because, if not, what you're claiming is ridiculous.

 

[YoungConserv]

Racism is defined as the belief that one race is inferior to another, particularly when that inferiority is seen as innate. Please explain how blacks tweeting that she doesn't belong there are claiming that one race is inferior to another.

It can also be stereotyping what a person of a certain race are supposed to act and saying you are not of this race if you don't fit that mold is racist .

 

[ThePlayDrive]

It can also be stereotyping what a person of a certain race are supposed to act and saying you are not of this race if you don't fit that mold is racist .

No, it can't actually.

 

[MaggieD]

Have you been diagnosed with some sort of memory issue revolving around physical traits because, if not, what you're claiming is ridiculous.

OMG. You're kidding. You actually think people look around to see how many black people are present ANYWHERE?? I didn't even notice that black intern. I don't know if the prosecution had any black people with them in the courtroom. I don't notice that. Apparently you do. Do you keep a scorecard?

"Who's!!! that BLACK on the defense team and why is she there?????" What do you call that?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

OMG. You're kidding. You actually think people look around to see how many black people are present ANYWHERE?? I didn't even notice that black intern. I don't know if the prosecution had any black people with them in the courtroom. I don't notice that. Apparently you do. Do you keep a scorecard?

"Who's!!! that BLACK on the defense team and why is she there?????" What do you call that?

Why are you accusing me of saying things that I did not? That's not cool.

 

[nota bene]

Here is the OED's definition of "racism":

racism, n.
Pronunciation: Brit. /ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/ , U.S. /ˈreɪˌsɪz(ə)m/

Etymology: < race n.6 + -ism suffix, perhaps after French racisme (1897 or earlier). Compare ... (Show More)

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Hence: prejudice and antagonism towards people of other races, esp. those felt to be a threat to one's cultural or racial integrity or economic well-being; the expression of such prejudice in words or actions. Also occas. in extended use, with reference to people of other nationalities. Cf. racialism n.


1903 Proc. 20th Ann. Meeting Lake Mohonk Conf. Friends of Indian 1902 134 Segregating any class or race of people..kills the progress of the segregated people... Association of races and classes is necessary in order to destroy racism and classism.

1926 Manchester Guardian 9 Feb. 7/4 The press of the Left is extremely mild. The [French publication] ‘Quotidien’ remarks neutrally that the two Nationalisms are in conflict, and that ‘if German racism is a danger to the world Fascism is another.’

1932 Christian Science Monitor 21 Oct. 8 It is altgether inaccurate to suggest that Europe is being indoctrinated with Fascism or Racism.

1936 L. Dennis Coming Amer. Fascism ix. 109 If..it be assumed that one of our values should be a type of racism which excludes certain races from citizenship, then the plan of execution should provide for the annihilation, deportation, or sterilization of the excluded races. If..as I devoutly hope will be the case, the scheme of values will include that of national citizenship in which race will be no qualifying or disqualifying condition, then [etc.].

1940 R. Benedict Race: Science & Politics i. 7 Racism is an ism to which everyone in the world today is exposed.

1952 Theology 55 283 The idolatry of our time—its setting up of nationalism, racism, vulgar materialism.

1960 New Left Rev. Jan.–Feb. 21/2 George Rogers saw fit to kow-tow to the incipient racism of his electorate by including a line about getting rid of ‘undesirable elements’.

1971 Ceylon Daily News (Colombo) 18 Sept. 8/5 Mr. Seneviratne is welcome to his ideal of inter-racial marriages as panacea for Racism.

1974 M. Fido R. Kipling 50/2 In The Story of Muhammad Din he wrote one of the most economical and bitter attacks on British racism ever penned.

1976 Cleveland (Ohio) Plain Dealer 4 Mar. a2/4 The Vatican radio said,..‘Racism might have different faces but it will always be reprehensible.’

1986 Marxism Today Sept. 43/4 The term ‘racism’ refers to the belief that there are significant distinctions (whether moral, intellectual or cultural) between races.

2000 A. Moreton-Robinson Talkin' up to White Woman vi. 173 It is racism which is the primary form of oppression Indigenous women experience at the hands of white women and white men.

2003 Chatham (Ont.) Daily News (Nexis) 11 Jan., The French Canadians were treated as bad as the blacks throughout the U.S. at the time... His experiences of racism against French Canadians..was [sic] apparent.

 

[Josie]

 

[cAPSLOCK]

No, racism is a word that has a meaning. Racism isn't just anything involving race that you don't like. There are other words and phrases like prejudice, racial insensitivity and racial ignorance among others to cover those things. In sum, what you said did not indicate racism. Instead of being so intellectually lazy and using racism as a "catchall" term for anything you don't like that involves race, do a little critical thinking and try to find the appropriate word or phrase that describes what you see.

I find it interesting that you are making this argument. I usually see this argument big g made by conservatives with the argument from the left being we should change the definition of the word racism to be more inclusive of general bigotry (but usually only white bigotry).

I agree with your argument in both situations. I tend to use the word bigoted in place of racist for most things.

Are you really making this argument or only lampooning the way the argument is often made from the right?

 

[niff]

We're talking about some black people on Twitter. You have no idea who they are and what they get outraged about beyond what you've seen in their tweets.


Again, you don't know who these people are so this analysis of imagined hypocrisy is meaningless.


I don't think that anybody should be denigrating the intern, but I also consider your analysis of people's behavior to be incredibly simplistic. It reads like someone who views the black people as "other" and not as someone who has any interest in truly understanding why some of them could have a legitimate problem with her actions.

so name one "legitimate problem with her actions.
She's Black so that means if she demonstrates having the slightest motivation to live a successful life she is threatened and ridiculed just like she was growing up by the Blacks in her schools who spat on her for getting 'A's' and called her filthy names?
The one thing Black hate more than anything else is having a successful Black among them. These people are a mirror held up and they DO NOT want to look into it.
That my friends is the #1 reason why the Black race is failing all over the world.
I remember reading Colin Powell and Rice's storys of how they were persecuted every day in their early school years for just showing up for class with their assignments completed.