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Interesting quote on power and behavior

Thrilla

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Working conditions in the U.S. before unions was much harsher and for less pay than after unions.

Hard to run a sweatshop with a union.

congrats, you addressed nothing i said.

at least you dropped the " unions created the middle class" myth... that's progress.
 
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oooh, a graph.... I like graphs and other colorful charts.

I don't do thinkprogress though...in a world of brain food, they, like many, are empty calories.

get back to me when you decide to address something worthwhile.

Unions raised the living the living standards of workers. As unions fail wages go lower.
 

Thrilla

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Unions raised the living the living standards of workers. As unions fail wages go lower.

they played a role in helping hte living standards.... they didn't do it by themselves, they did not cause the behavior.

unions are not these ultra powerful god like entities you pretend they are.

again, you are proving the quote in the OP..well done.
 
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they played a role in helping hte living standards.... they didn't do it by themselves, they did not cause the behavior.

unions are not these ultra powerful god like entities you pretend they are.

again, you are proving the quote in the OP..well done.

I don't think they are god like. They just represent the workers and negotiate better contract terms.
 

Thrilla

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I don't think they are god like. They just represent the workers and negotiate better contract terms.

let's see here...

they created the middle class, they improved working conditions, and raised salaries for the middle class they created.

despite unions being relatively small, you have attributed all that to them... it's your claim they alone caused all that to happen.

but somehow, they aren't godlike.:lol:

it's ok man, someone has to be a union propaganda mouthpiece... it's your turn today.

hell, look at your cool chart again.... the nice little squiggly line that supposedly correlate.
a 20% drop in union membership correlates to a 7% drop in national income held by the middle class..uh huh... that math doesn't seem so bad if you don't look at the squiggly lines does it?

like magic, your graph makes 20% equal 7%
of course , you want me and others to believe that unions are the only factor in that 7% drop... unions, nothing else, no other factors in a world of factors.
the other 80% of the non union middle class, nah, they don't factor in at all.... nope, just the unions.
no mentions of globalization, increased immigration and it's direct force on wages and such, no mentioning of a growing middle class ( in shear numbers), no mentioning of the myth that the wealth in question isn't static ( upwardly mobile folks take their wealth with them)
nah, ta hell with all that, you felt like you could thrown some BS union propaganda and myths at me and i'd buy it like a good little follower. ...sorry man, not gonna happen.


the union membership declined, and yes, wages did too... but they do not correlate like that little lie of a chart presents... union membership dropped off at a faster pace than wages.. and it fell more than 200% further than wages.... it's a very very weak correlation, and even weaker causation argument.
 
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let's see here...

they created the middle class, they improved working conditions, and raised salaries for the middle class they created.

despite unions being relatively small, you have attributed all that to them... it's your claim they alone caused all that to happen.

but somehow, they aren't godlike.:lol:

it's ok man, someone has to be a union propaganda mouthpiece... it's your turn today.

hell, look at your cool chart again.... the nice little squiggly line that supposedly correlate.
a 20% drop in union membership correlates to a 7% drop in national income held by the middle class..uh huh... that math doesn't seem so bad if you don't look at the squiggly lines does it?

like magic, your graph makes 20% equal 7%
of course , you want me and others to believe that unions are the only factor in that 7% drop... unions, nothing else, no other factors in a world of factors.
the other 80% of the non union middle class, nah, they don't factor in at all.... nope, just the unions.
no mentions of globalization, increased immigration and it's direct force on wages and such, no mentioning of a growing middle class ( in shear numbers), no mentioning of the myth that the wealth in question isn't static ( upwardly mobile folks take their wealth with them)
nah, ta hell with all that, you felt like you could thrown some BS union propaganda and myths at me and i'd buy it like a good little follower. ...sorry man, not gonna happen.


the union membership declined, and yes, wages did too... but they do not correlate like that little lie of a chart presents... union membership dropped off at a faster pace than wages.. and it fell more than 200% further than wages.... it's a very very weak correlation, and even weaker causation argument.

A better negotiating position means better contract terms. Unions offer a better negotiating position therefore increase wages and benefits.
 

Thrilla

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A better negotiating position means better contract terms. Unions offer a better negotiating position therefore increase wages and benefits.

you didn't address anything I said..... figures

if unions are the only way to get better wages and benefits, explain how i was able to negotiate better wages and benefits than union members in the same industry...
now i'm an employer, so explain why I offer better pay and benefits than any union offers in my industry while you are at it.
 
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you didn't address anything I said..... figures

if unions are the only way to get better wages and benefits, explain how i was able to negotiate better wages and benefits than union members in the same industry...
now i'm an employer, so explain why I offer better pay and benefits than any union offers in my industry while you are at it.

You own a construction company and regularly hire illegals.
 

Thrilla

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Yeah I didn't think you actually own a company in a union industry.

on what do you base this belief of yours ?...wishful thinking?... does the union propaganda cause you to belief they are your one and only savior?


my employees have been courted by the ILWU, WWU, and WWJ ( the latter 2 are smaller unions with Teamster affiliations and backing... the most corrupt union on the face of the planet)
they laughed at them and sent them on their way... joining a union would be a step backwards for them.
they already enjoy collective bargaining ( as well as individual bargaining)..they have a grievance process... and of course, they have wages and benefits none of the union shops can match. the union simply has nothing to offer them.
the funny part is, you would think the union would be happy for the workers... instead, they are not, they are offended... they are missing out on all those dues dollars and power to manipulate the business and market.

Unions are wedded to what I see as antiquated compensation models... I have entirely different ideas on how to compensate employees and this is my 2nd business where this model had succeeded... it also helps that within the industry, the union shops don't offer anywhere near the level of overall compensation or benefits I do.
libertarianism isn't just a political philosophy for me, it's a business model and a lifestyle
 
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on what do you base this belief of yours ?...wishful thinking?... does the union propaganda cause you to belief they are your one and only savior?


my employees have been courted by the ILWU, WWU, and WWJ ( the latter 2 are smaller unions with Teamster affiliations and backing... the most corrupt union on the face of the planet)
they laughed at them and sent them on their way... joining a union would be a step backwards for them.
they already enjoy collective bargaining ( as well as individual bargaining)..they have a grievance process... and of course, they have wages and benefits none of the union shops can match. the union simply has nothing to offer them.
the funny part is, you would think the union would be happy for the workers... instead, they are not, they are offended... they are missing out on all those dues dollars and power to manipulate the business and market.

Unions are wedded to what I see as antiquated compensation models... I have entirely different ideas on how to compensate employees and this is my 2nd business where this model had succeeded... it also helps that within the industry, the union shops don't offer anywhere near the level of overall compensation or benefits I do.
libertarianism isn't just a political philosophy for me, it's a business model and a lifestyle

So you own a trucking company with collective bargaining? So your union didn't want to be absorbed by another union. Big whoop. Still a union.
 

Thrilla

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So you own a trucking company with collective bargaining? So your union didn't want to be absorbed by another union. Big whoop. Still a union.

no, not a trucking company.... do you not know what ILWU is?.. it's odd for someone so steeped in union propaganda not to recognize a major union
international longshoreman and warehouse union.

our union doesn't want to be absorbed by another union?... umm dude, did you not listen?.. we don't have a union....we're just a company
I know unions have told you that management is out to screw labor and labor must fight back against this tyranny... but in our case, that's a complete and utter myth.

you should be happy for my employees.. but just like the union, you get all butthurt and dismissive ... "big whoop"
every time i have a run in with a union sychophant, it always turns out the same.. they get butthurt their precious unions are not in power.
 
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no, not a trucking company.... do you not know what ILWU is?.. it's odd for someone so steeped in union propaganda not to recognize a major union
international longshoreman and warehouse union.

our union doesn't want to be absorbed by another union?... umm dude, did you not listen?.. we don't have a union....we're just a company
I know unions have told you that management is out to screw labor and labor must fight back against this tyranny... but in our case, that's a complete and utter myth.

you should be happy for my employees.. but just like the union, you get all butthurt and dismissive ... "big whoop"
every time i have a run in with a union sychophant, it always turns out the same.. they get butthurt their precious unions are not in power.

You said your employees have collective bargaining. The collective is a union.
 

Aunt Spiker

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From the book "The Leadership Challenge"



Sound familiar? This is a perfect summary of what conservatives claim the government is doing to America. It comes in the form of a study regarding leadership as it pertains to business. But clearly there's a cross-over application.

Well - a more common term for this is called 'reliance' . . . where people forget they have power, as well, and just sort of float along and become reliant on the leader to tell them what to do.
 

Thrilla

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You said your employees have collective bargaining. The collective is a union.


:lol:

collective bargaining is a process, not an entity.

the "collective" is ... the company.... my company is not a union.

I might look into becoming a union , though.. not having to pay taxes on all the loot you demand from people, being able to manipulate markets, elections, politics, and policy... and having the legal ability to force people out of work and force other business ( who are actually productive) to shutter their doors due to strikes.... that's alot of money and power.

naaah, I don't have a corrupt character, I couldn't do it .
 
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:lol:

collective bargaining is a process, not an entity.

the "collective" is ... the company.... my company is not a union.

I might look into becoming a union , though.. not having to pay taxes on all the loot you demand from people, being able to manipulate markets, elections, politics, and policy... and having the legal ability to force people out of work and force other business ( who are actually productive) to shutter their doors due to strikes.... that's alot of money and power.

naaah, I don't have a corrupt character, I couldn't do it .

I see so your employees don't have any collective bargaining. Why make that up?
 

Thrilla

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Well - a more common term for this is called 'reliance' . . . where people forget they have power, as well, and just sort of float along and become reliant on the leader to tell them what to do.

aye.. and they get to believing that their "master" is the end all be all of their world.

to foster such behavior , to me, is not leadership.. it's tyranny.
leadership, to me, isn't about fomenting compliance or dependence... but all too often, that's exactly what it turns out to be (especially when it comes to government leadership)
 
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no, you don't see... and I made nothing up.

it's not my fault you equate collective bargaining to a union...

Collective bargaining is a union. The collection of individuals doing the bargaining is the union.
 

Thrilla

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Collective bargaining is a union. The collection of individuals doing the bargaining is the union.

collective bargaining is a process.

if you insist that my employees have a union, please provide corroboration...provide the union name, provide their union charter, provide evidence they have been designated and recognized by the NLRB, provide documentation of their non-profit status.

I'll save you some time... you won't find any of that.. because it doesn't exist.


union sycophants are all alike, they never know when to stop digging when their myths come crumbling down.
 
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collective bargaining is a process.

if you insist that my employees have a union, please provide corroboration...provide the union name, provide their union charter, provide evidence they have been designated and recognized by the NLRB, provide documentation of their non-profit status.

I'll save you some time... you won't find any of that.. because it doesn't exist.


union sycophants are all alike, they never know when to stop digging when their myths come crumbling down.

Collective bargaining is easy to understand. Individuals designate someone or a few to represent the whole group to negotiate. The collection of individuals is also known as a union.
 
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