Indiana governor: New law 'not about discrimination'

[Henrin]

Just because I adhere to the idea doesn't mean I see it happening anytime soon, it's not impossible though, think about those living under feudalism who thought it would be impossible for it to change.

I don't think the evidence suggests that it's possible. You're talking about a system that must enforce a standard of fairness and equality that does not naturally occur. A system that relies on force to be maintained is flawed as it requires someone willing to impose his or her will on others to an almost absolute level. You will never have a free society based on artificial constructs and realities that only occur when force is applied.

 

[Dovkan]

I don't think the evidence suggests it's possible. You're talking about a system that must enforcing a standard of fairness and equality that does not naturally occur. A system that relies on force to be maintained is flawed as it requires someone willing to impose his or her will on others to an almost absolute level. You will never have a free society based on artificial constructs and realities that only occur when force is applied.

Once it is established, force would be used against those that are harmful, as decided by the common people. You will never have a free society under capitalism either, as "freedom" can never truly exist. Again, there are various theories on how to go about maintaining communism, force may be one of them, yes.

 

[KevinKohler]

I think the best way to combat this current law in Indiana, especially with the way it is phrased is by saying your Religion forbids you from paying taxes.

The problem there is, most are likely christian, and not only does that religion not forbid the paying of taxes, it ENCOURAGES it, lol.

 

[CMPancake]

The problem there is, most are likely christian, and not only does that religion not forbid the paying of taxes, it ENCOURAGES it, lol.

Well in that case it seems like the perfect time to introduce Don'tPayTaxism. My first patron saint is hopefully Wesley Snipes.

 

[Dovkan]

Well in that case it seems like the perfect time to introduce Don'tPayTaxism. My first patron saint is hopefully Wesley Snipes.

May I be a saint?

 

[Henrin]

Once it is established, force would be used against those that are harmful, as decided by the common people. You will never have a free society under capitalism either, as "freedom" can never truly exist. Again, there are various theories on how to go about maintaining communism, force may be one of them, yes.

Equality doesn't just maintain itself nor will the common people ever be given control. Even if the common people are given control for some completely unbelievable reason the system is still inherently based entirely on control and equality will never happen.

 

[Dovkan]

Equality doesn't just maintain itself nor will the common people ever be given control. Even if the common people are given control the system is still inherently based entirely on control.

Equality isn't sameness, and communism in regards to equality is "allocation according to need" with no one controlling the means of production and exploiting another.s labor.
Yes, "control" by the common people without a state, which I guess is control.

 

[Henrin]

Equality isn't sameness, and communism in regards to equality is "allocation according to need" Yes, controlled by the common people since no state exists.

See, right there you prove you my point. Someone has to judge what people need and restrict people from getting anything more than that amount. That person will be in charge of everything and will be more or less a king and those under him will be merely peasants.

Even if somehow the collective votes on these matters it will be merely opinion on what someone needs and those that lose will be oppressed in an absolute manner.

 

[Dovkan]

See, right there you prove you my point. Someone has to judge what people need and restrict people from getting anything more than that amount. That person will be in charge of everything and will be more or less a king and those under him will be merely peasants.

No, not at all, communism has no state, the common people decide on the actions done, the common people control the means of productions, There would be no authoritative figure. Of course, you may be referring to this

In Marxist socio-political thought, the dictatorship of the proletariat refers to a state in which the proletariat, or the working class, has control of political power. The term, coined by Joseph Weydemeyer, was adopted by the founders of Marxism, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, in the 19th century.

This was postulated to make sure the bourgeoisie don't regain control, and a necessary step by some in order to make sure communism can form.
The state wouldn't exist once communism is established, if by control you mean the common people, then I agree.

 

[Henrin]

No, not at all, communism has no state, the common people decide on the actions done, the common people control the means of productions, There would be no authoritative figure. Of course, you may be referring to this The state wouldn't exist once communism is established.

As I said, the group making the vote instead of a single person changes very little.

 

[Dovkan]

As I said, the group making the vote instead of a single person changes very little.

I agree, then that is "control' done by everyone, the common people. Sounds good to me.

 

[CanadaJohn]

I hate to say it, but America really needs a collective slap in the face to wake people up. All this petty infighting is really destructive. I can't imagine such a law ever being thought of here in Canada, let alone ever being passed. It's just not on people's radar or even relevant to day to day life struggles. There must be something missing in the lives of many Americans - I hope you get over it soon.

 

[Dovkan]

I hate to say it, but America really needs a collective slap in the face to wake people up. All this petty infighting is really destructive. I can't imagine such a law ever being thought of here in Canada, let alone ever being passed. It's just not on people's radar or even relevant to day to day life struggles. There must be something missing in the lives of many Americans - I hope you get over it soon.

You've hit the nail on the head. /thread

 

[Henrin]

I agree, then that is "control' done by everyone, the common people. Sounds good to me.

Except it still fails for the same reason. The majority voting what someone else can own is still very much oppressive.

 

[Henrin]

I hate to say it, but America really needs a collective slap in the face to wake people up. All this petty infighting is really destructive. I can't imagine such a law ever being thought of here in Canada, let alone ever being passed. It's just not on people's radar or even relevant to day to day life struggles. There must be something missing in the lives of many Americans - I hope you get over it soon.

Why do we need to be woken up? Fighting for freedom is hardly a bad thing. Some of us refuse to be treated like sheep and refuse to give up like we don't have a mind of our own.

 

[Dovkan]

Except it still fails for the same reason. The majority voting what someone else can own is still very much oppressive.

Really now? Communists, when they refer to private property, are talking about things that benefit everyone that don't need to controlled for profit , mainly the means of production, so yes, if that's oppressive to let the common people own production, so be it. If the majority agree on something, that doesn't seem oppressive. Maybe oppressive to the small minority who would like to make profit from those things. :shock:

 

[Henrin]

Really now? Communists, when they refer to private property, are talking about things that benefit others, mainly the means of production, so yes, if that's oppressive to let the common people own production, so be it. If the majority agree on something, that's not oppressive, if the majority agree murder is wrong, is that oppressive to murderers?

The majority imposing their will on the minority is oppressive, sorry. You see, you didn't end the enslavement of the human race by eliminating the state and replacing it with communism, but merely changed who the slave owners are.

 

[Dovkan]

The majority imposing their will on the minority is oppressive, sorry. You see, you didn't end the enslavement of the human race by eliminating the state and replacing it with communism, but merely changed who the slave owners are.

:roll: so the common people, the workers, "oppressing" a tiny few who had been owning the means of production and essentially enslaving them, yeah, "slave owners" who agree to own production for everyone's benefit, working together. You do realize the state has never been replaced with communism in "communist countries"? This has never happened, you seem to think it has.

 

[catch22]

Why do we need to be woken up? Fighting for freedom is hardly a bad thing. Some of us refuse to be treated like sheep and refuse to give up like we don't have a mind of our own.

What freedom? The freedom to discriminate? Btw you aren't being a sheep by respecting people just because they are different, you are being human.

 

[Anthony60]

oooooooooooooooh, but minority religious beliefs are fair game?




WOW

Yes, pretty much. Real religions, mainstream. But, if you like, you can throw them all in.

 

[Henrin]

What freedom? The freedom to discriminate? Btw you aren't being a sheep by respecting people just because they are different, you are being human.

I sure hope you realize what it would mean if discrimination was not a right.

 

[Henrin]

:roll: so the common people, the workers, "oppressing" a tiny few who had been owning the means of production and essentially enslaving them, yeah, "slave owners" who agree to own production for everyone's benefit, working together. You do realize the state has never been replaced with communism in "communist countries"? This has never happened, you seem to think it has.

How do you think you get the resources you need to become a business owner? Could it be by trading with those with the resources your after until you get enough to start the business venture of your choosing? Tell me, how can trading for resources you don't have be slavery?

 

[Fletch]

That is the accepted definition, what are the other ones? I live in a fantasy world? Just because I adhere to the idea doesn't mean I see it happening anytime soon, it's not impossible though, think about those living under feudalism who thought it would be impossible for it to change, or those who were enslaved, etc, etc... It's a stupid shut down to say I live in a fantasy world and try to warp the definition of what communism actually is.

Dude, you might as well say you believe in the Force. Its every bit as reasonable as saying you believe that money and class and government will all disappear.

 

[Dovkan]

How do you think you get the resources you need to become a business owner? Could it be by trading with those with the resources your after until you get enough to start the business venture of your choosing? Tell me, how can trading for resources you don't have be slavery?

It is no question that a select few control the means of production, and are focused on profit. Also, wage slavery?

 

[Fletch]

How do you think you get the resources you need to become a business owner? Could it be by trading with those with the resources your after until you get enough to start the business venture of your choosing? Tell me, how can trading for resources you don't have be slavery?

How do communists get resources? They steal them of course.