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Ilhan Omar claims US forces killed 'thousands' of Somalis during 'Black Hawk Down' mission (1 Viewer)

Wan said:
I do not need to provide "proof" whatsoever. People can establish others' intent through the way they act.

For example, if there is a girl who always blushes when she sees you, always giggles in front of you and laughs at all your jokes, even though she might not state explicitly that she likes you, you can nevertheless surmise that she does.
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If there is someone who makes wild claims about another person then refuses to back those claims up with any proof, we can surmise that person is a flat our liar.

As to intent, well, either the liar in question is looking for attention or the liar is in fact just a bigoted idiot who spreads lies in a blatant attempt to convince others that their broken uneducated viewpoint is reality because if it’s not then that same liar would have trouble looking themselves on the mirror without the deep deep understanding that they are in fact human garbage and will one day have to stand in front of their God and answer as to why they chose to bear false witness.

But that’s just me establishing someone else’s intent based on their acts.
 
akyron said:
umm None of that supports your original claim...Read it again.

As Russia collusion fades, Ukrainian plot to help Clinton emerges

"Ukraine’s top prosecutor divulged in an interview aired Wednesday on Hill.TV that he has opened an investigation into whether his country’s law enforcement apparatus intentionally leaked financial records during the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign about then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort in an effort to sway the election in favor of Hillary Clinton.
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The leak of the so-called black ledger files to U.S. media prompted Manafort’s resignation from the Trump campaign and gave rise to one of the key allegations in the Russia collusion probe that has dogged Trump for the last two and a half years.

Ukraine Prosecutor General Yurii Lutsenko’s probe was prompted by a Ukrainian parliamentarian's release of a tape recording purporting to quote a top law enforcement official as saying his agency leaked the Manafort financial records to help Clinton's campaign."
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Fake news

The views expressed by contributors are their own and not the view of The Hill
 
Vidi said:
Where EXACTLY does she equate that?

And as long as you brought it up, why the hell do we have to send troops ANYWHERE on altruistic missions?

Why should we risk American lives in someone else’s civil war?

Imperial - imperious or domineering.

synonyms: imperious, high-handed, commanding, peremptory, dictatorial, domineering, bossy, arrogant, overweening, overbearing, authoritarian, tyrannical, authoritative, lordly, officious

Looking at the definition and synonyms of Imperial, I’d say interceding in someone else’s civil war is definitely imperial-like behavior.

But please link to me the SPECIFIC tweet or article that quotes Omar as saying the troops were terrorists
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Well let's see...oh, look. What about the link that started this thread.

Representative Omar was responding to a Twitter thread first started by Senator Franken who remarked that the 250 Somalis were killed in a terrorist attack. It was retweeted by another observer who argued that the worst terrorist attack was the Battle of Mogadishu. To which she points out (erroneously) that "thousands" of Somalis were killed by the US forces in that battle.

The frame of the conversation was terrorist attacks. To which she tried to link the deaths incurred by US forces was a form of terrorism.

Now, we can argue about the proper use of American forces around the world. But the mission that President G.W. Bush sent American forces in was to safeguard the Somalis who were dying due to starvation because both sides of the civil war was using food as a weapon. Again, we can argue whether this was a proper use of American force, but it was embarked upon due to the desire to lessen the suffering of innocent Somalis who just wanted food to eat. Now, if you want to call this imperialism, fine. Then would American use of force to stop the genocide also be considered imperialism? If so, we can disagree. But there is no way to objectively say that that or the mission in Somalia was an act of terrorism.
 
Vidi said:
Where EXACTLY does she equate that?

And as long as you brought it up, why the hell do we have to send troops ANYWHERE on altruistic missions?

Why should we risk American lives in someone else’s civil war?

Imperial - imperious or domineering.

synonyms:imperious, high-handed, commanding, peremptory, dictatorial, domineering, bossy, arrogant, overweening, overbearing, authoritarian, tyrannical, authoritative, lordly, officious

Looking at the definition and synonyms of Imperial, I’d say interceding in someone else’s civil war is definitely imperial-like behavior.

But please link to me the SPECIFIC tweet or article that quotes Omar as saying the troops were terrorists
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Good point!

The hypocrisy becomes obvious when you point out how the people who cheer Trump for not wanting to provide military support to our allies in Europe get so upset because a Muslim woman criticized the US for providing military support to people who are NOT our allies
 
Vidi said:
And as long as you brought it up, why the hell do we have to send troops ANYWHERE on altruistic missions?

Why should we risk American lives in someone else’s civil war?

Imperial - imperious or domineering.

synonyms: imperious, high-handed, commanding, peremptory, dictatorial, domineering, bossy, arrogant, overweening, overbearing, authoritarian, tyrannical, authoritative, lordly, officious

Looking at the definition and synonyms of Imperial, I’d say interceding in someone else’s civil war is definitely imperial-like behavior.
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Democratic peace theory - Wikipedia
 
My only question is does she represent Minnesotans or Somalis in Congress?
 
Vidi said:
It’s not wildly exaggerated. Estimates of Syrian casualties in that battle do number in the thousands.

The tweet I saw in the original link simply stated that fact. Any emotional content drawn from that tweet was placed there by the reader.

Do not ask me to spell Mogadishu correctly. Too damn tired lol
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......Syrian?

What?

Casualties, as said before, are not the same thing as deaths. The highest estimates of actual deaths appear to be about five hundred, and while a few hundred more likely died of wounds taken during the battle, that is not the same thing as “thousands of Somalis being killed”.
 
perthbum said:
Ub
ungrateful for what, I was a firefighter for 25 years and I was not a hero just someone earning qood living, I hate it when the public call firefighters heroes, we aint, same goes for the military in my opinion. Nothing to feel grateful about.
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It seems Americans worship anything in a uniform as heroic. It's a word that gets diluted to the extent that its true value gets lost-like 'awesome', which has become the universally accepted synonym for 'good'.
I reserve 'hero' for men like this who truly deserve it:
Johnson Beharry - Wikipedia
 
Vidi said:
It’s not wildly exaggerated. Estimates of Syrian casualties in that battle do number in the thousands.

The tweet I saw in the original link simply stated that fact. Any emotional content drawn from that tweet was placed there by the reader.

Do not ask me to spell Mogadishu correctly. Too damn tired lol
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Actually, you spelled the city correctly. What I will ask you to do is realize that Mogadishu is in Somalia, not Syria.
 
StillServing said:
Well let's see...oh, look. What about the link that started this thread.

Representative Omar was responding to a Twitter thread first started by Senator Franken who remarked that the 250 Somalis were killed in a terrorist attack. It was retweeted by another observer who argued that the worst terrorist attack was the Battle of Mogadishu. To which she points out (erroneously) that "thousands" of Somalis were killed by the US forces in that battle.

The frame of the conversation was terrorist attacks. To which she tried to link the deaths incurred by US forces was a form of terrorism.

Now, we can argue about the proper use of American forces around the world. But the mission that President G.W. Bush sent American forces in was to safeguard the Somalis who were dying due to starvation because both sides of the civil war was using food as a weapon. Again, we can argue whether this was a proper use of American force, but it was embarked upon due to the desire to lessen the suffering of innocent Somalis who just wanted food to eat. Now, if you want to call this imperialism, fine. Then would American use of force to stop the genocide also be considered imperialism? If so, we can disagree. But there is no way to objectively say that that or the mission in Somalia was an act of terrorism.
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And correcting the number of Somalis were killed from 250 to thousands is equating American forces to terrorists how exactly?
 
StillServing said:
Actually, you spelled the city correctly. What I will ask you to do is realize that Mogadishu is in Somalia, not Syria.
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Haha haha

Sorry VERY long day yesterday

Thanks for the correction.
 
Tigerace117 said:
......Syrian?

What?

Casualties, as said before, are not the same thing as deaths. The highest estimates of actual deaths appear to be about five hundred, and while a few hundred more likely died of wounds taken during the battle, that is not the same thing as “thousands of Somalis being killed”.
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Reliable estimates place the number of Somali insurgents killed at between 800 and as many as 1,000 with perhaps another 4,000 wounded.
 
Vidi said:
Reliable estimates place the number of Somali insurgents killed at between 800 and as many as 1,000 with perhaps another 4,000 wounded.
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Which is not the same as “the US killed thousands of Somalis”.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Which is not the same as “the US killed thousands of Somalis”.
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US and UN forces. A distinction without much of a difference.

Hardly the a distinction that calls for such a vilification of Omar.

Wait...you DO understand the #nottodaysatan hashtag right?
 
Vidi said:
Yeah I’m not a globalist. Sorry.
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I don't care if you agree. Why would I.

Just a heads-up so you're not as ignorant about others. You understand that it's not good to be totally ignorant of the other side's argument, right? I'm sure you don't want that. Next time, try not to act like an idiot. Now you can act like someone with a clue, cause I gave you one. You're welcome.
 
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Craig234 said:
Actually, it is - add in the civilians, 1,001 total is "thousands".
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Except, again, that’s not how people think. Nobody means “a thousand and one” when they say thousands.

Not to mention, of course, that the SNA’s own statements claim there were 812 people wounded. While some of those likely died of their injuries, there is no evidence to suggest that the vast majority of them did.

You trying to play games with semantics does not change the fact that Omar’s statement was a wild exaggeration without a basis in fact.
 
Vidi said:
US and UN forces. A distinction without much of a difference.

Hardly the a distinction that calls for such a vilification of Omar.

Wait...you DO understand the #nottodaysatan hashtag right?
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UN Forces didn’t kill “thousands of Somalis” during the incident either.

Again......her statement was a wild exaggeration which completely ignored the facts about why the US was there in the first place.

And there is zero reason to just blithely accept such statements.
 
Vidi said:
If there is someone who makes wild claims about another person then refuses to back those claims up with any proof, we can surmise that person is a flat our liar.
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You are free to surmise that I am a liar. Just like how I am free to surmise Omar is ungrateful.

Equilibrium has been reached.
 
Wan said:
You are free to surmise that I am a liar. Just like how I am free to surmise Omar is ungrateful.

Equilibrium has been reached.
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At least you admit it’s your bias speaking and not facts.

I kind of respect that
 
Vidi said:
At least you admit it’s your bias speaking and not facts.

I kind of respect that
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I in fact do not admit to that.
 
Tigerace117 said:
UN Forces didn’t kill “thousands of Somalis” during the incident either.

Again......her statement was a wild exaggeration which completely ignored the facts about why the US was there in the first place.

And there is zero reason to just blithely accept such statements.
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Are we talking about the Battle of Mogadishu?

And once again, YOU are putting the WHY in the discussion. She never did.
 
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