"if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W:804

[Travis007]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

So you don't know why Romans built roads, okay.

I do.. but who cares...

 

[winston53660]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

I do.. but who cares...

Well since it makes you look bad why would you care?

 

[Phoenix]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Why do you think the Romans built roads?

To Import ANCHOVIES FOR CAESAR SALAD!!!

 

[Utility Man]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Wonder if those businessmen forged their own tools and cut down their own trees for paper etc.

 

[winston53660]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

To Import ANCHOVIES FOR CAESAR SALAD!!!

Cool that employes fishermen, truckers, chefs, waiters, etc.

 

[Donc]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

dumbest post ever?

I don't know...i thought post#122 beat it by a long shot.:2wave:

 

[Neomalthusian]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Why is our president giving speeches reminding people to be grateful to others for their success? What is his goal in telling us not to take too much credit for what we do well?

 

[Bronson]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

The Myth of the Robber Barons with Burt Folsom - YouTube

 

[Travis007]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Well since it makes you look bad why would you care?

again.. who cares.. we all know why they built roads.. at least most of do.. but who cares?..it was for communication, so the army had the ability to move etc..Im guessing your angle was it "created jobs" LOL...

 

[ksu_aviator]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Who said anything about them "deserving more"? People who are successful generally benefited from these services, therefore they should pay taxes so future generations can do the same.

No one said they shouldn't.

The Founding Fathers' ideas are, at best, antiquated. They didn't create a system of freedom...in fact, not a single one of them was legitimately elected to any office in their entire lives. The United States didn't even become a full democracy until 1965.

They didn't create a system of freedom? Do you know what the Bill of Rights is? Have you read the Declaration of Independence?

None of them were ever elected? Presidents alone: George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison....etc. I mean, we could list 50 or so people that were either a part of the Continental Congress or the Federal Government to follow. I don't know where you get your information, but it isn't from facts.

Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Presidents of the United States (POTUS)

Yes. They were able to ship their products via highways, in addition to all the ways that everyone else benefits (e.g. being able to easily drive to work and to the grocery). Business owners make substantially more use of public roads than the average person.

Do business owners take the opportunity or is the opportunity only afforded to them? Because the way I see it, we all pay taxes and have the same opportunity to use the same public roads. Unless you want user fees?

That's not true at all...all that proves is that you need to define "circumstances" a bit wider. A person who comes from a poor and abusive home, but won the genetic lottery for traits predisposing him to intelligence and self-control, actually has better circumstances than it may appear to an outsider. Circumstances ARE the main determinant for prosperity and poverty. If you think the main determinant is something like "hard work" or "intelligence" or "self-discipline," then it's worth examining where a person acquires those traits in the first place, if not from their circumstances.

What are you trying to argue? You go back and forth between it is not their circumstances and it is their circumstances. Get a grip. At this point it becomes obvious you are just defending Obama for the sake of defending Obama and nothing more.

The point is that the technology likely wouldn't exist (or would be far behind where it currently is) if not for the government, and therefore the millions of people who have benefited from it would not have done so.

Right. So Apple wouldn't have made the iPhone if it wasn't for the government? You should read just a minute amount about the founding of the internet. It wasn't the government that did the work, they just made the request (and funded it)...the real work was done in private labs with private contractors. The government being the first requester does not change the time line appreciably. If not for the government, some one, some where would have made it happen...whether the next week, month or decade...it would have still happened. It is like saying had the Wright brothers not flown we would have never flown...or aircraft wouldn't be where they are today. The reality is, the modern aircraft began with the Wright brothers, but the major advancements came later, and in private facilities.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

again.. who cares.. we all know why they built roads.. at least most of do.. but who cares?..it was for communication, so the army had the ability to move etc..Im guessing your angle was it "created jobs" LOL...

Although, we must acknowledge that the modern-day liberal just might think that we build transportation corridors primarily to create jobs, and that their actual utility beyond that might diminish quickly.

See California high speed rail. :roll:

 

[VanceMack]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Wonder if those businessmen forged their own tools and cut down their own trees for paper etc.

And then they GAVE those assets to the businessman to start his business...right? That was the coolest part about starting my most recent business...having all those laptops and printers that others manufactured given to me to start a business. Thanks America! I started a business, and you helped!

 

[jet57]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

To be honest, his actual point wasn't much better.

What was his point?

just askin'

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Wonder if those businessmen forged their own tools and cut down their own trees for paper etc.

Wonder if they paid someone else to do that ?

 

[Tucker Case]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Allow me to make this conversation easier:


The conservative points:

When they succeed: "I did it all on my own!"

When they fail: "It's the government's/affirmative action's/illegal immigrants'/leftist media's fault!"

Reverse the statements and you basically have the liberal points.

 

[Ikari]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Allow me to make this conversation easier:


The conservative points:

When they succeed: "I did it all on my own!"

When they fail: "It's the government's/affirmative action's/illegal immigrants'/leftist media's fault!"

Reverse the statements and you basically have the liberal points.

Sadly true and well demonstrated on this forum.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Allow me to make this conversation easier:


The conservative points:

When they succeed: "I did it all on my own!"

When they fail: "It's the government's/affirmative action's/illegal immigrants'/leftist media's fault!"

Reverse the statements and you basically have the liberal points.

Those are wonderfully generalized statements. So...when I started my business and invested my time and resources, who exactly was it that was 'helping'? And should it fail...it COULD simply be because the market didnt support the business, or for any number of business related reasons. Im just trying to see the 1 + 1 = squishy ball equation.

No doubt, many people get help when they start businesses. Many more simply ground up and grind. Dood that we just hired to paint our rental runs his entire business out of a van. Busts his hump and works 6-7 days a week, takes on last minute jobs and has built a fantastic rep. This populist appeal that gosh...we are ALL a part of everyone's business success is just nonsense.

 

[Meathead]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Allow me to make this conversation easier:


The conservative points:

When they succeed: "I did it all on my own!"

As opposed to the progressive view where an unmarried and unemployed woman can raise several children "on her own".

 

[Kandahar]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

They didn't create a system of freedom? Do you know what the Bill of Rights is? Have you read the Declaration of Independence?

The freedoms claimed therein did not apply to many/most people.

None of them were ever elected? Presidents alone: George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison....etc. I mean, we could list 50 or so people that were either a part of the Continental Congress or the Federal Government to follow. I don't know where you get your information, but it isn't from facts.

Which of them were elected in a free and fair election, consisting of all the adults living in their jurisdiction? The United States at the time was not a republic, it was an oligarchy based on gender, race, and wealth. The US didn't even become a de jure republic until 1920, and it didn't become a de facto republic until 1965. None of the Founding Fathers were legitimately elected to anything...so like I said, their ideas are antiquated at best. In the 47 years that the US has actually been representative of the people, the country has never elected leaders espousing a vision like the Founding Fathers.

Do business owners take the opportunity or is the opportunity only afforded to them? Because the way I see it, we all pay taxes and have the same opportunity to use the same public roads. Unless you want user fees?

If more people "took the opportunity" to use the roads more, then they would require proportionally more upkeep and therefore the new people who took the opportunity should pay taxes too.

What are you trying to argue? You go back and forth between it is not their circumstances and it is their circumstances. Get a grip. At this point it becomes obvious you are just defending Obama for the sake of defending Obama and nothing more.

It is their circumstances...and if you thought I said otherwise, then you must have not read my post very carefully. Obama is absolutely right that no one succeeds on their own. It doesn't even make sense to claim that you succeeded on your own...what would that even look like? Even if you started out with nothing, had an abusive family and a crappy education, but managed to succeed anyway because of your hard work and desire to learn, somewhere along the way you picked up those values. And that's a part of your life circumstances.

Right. So Apple wouldn't have made the iPhone if it wasn't for the government?

If there was no government funding, the timeline of the world wide web would've been pushed back, and therefore the timeline of smartphones would've been pushed back.

You should read just a minute amount about the founding of the internet. It wasn't the government that did the work, they just made the request (and funded it)...the real work was done in private labs with private contractors. The government being the first requester does not change the time line appreciably. If not for the government, some one, some where would have made it happen...whether the next week, month or decade...it would have still happened.

I agree that it would have still happened. But your timeline is way off. The government funding the development of the internet was a significant factor, and it wouldn't have been profitable for any private entity to do so until long after.

It is like saying had the Wright brothers not flown we would have never flown...or aircraft wouldn't be where they are today. The reality is, the modern aircraft began with the Wright brothers, but the major advancements came later, and in private facilities.

There were plenty of other aviators tinkering with aircraft around the same time as the Wright Brothers. There were no other significant internet pioneers working on an internet at the same time as DARPA.

 

[ArizonaIrish]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Standing alone his quote sounds justifiable ridiculous, however within the context of his speech and as part of his overall point it makes sense. He certainly should have phrased it better to avoid a situation like this and to make his point clearer. Or heck he could have left that entire sentence out and his point would have stood.

The full context of the speech makes the statement even more incorrect.

As an example, roads. The public didn't build roads and then hope for commerce to use the roads. Roads were initially carved out by the people who needed them for commerce (businesses). Then as the communities grew, around commerce (businesses) people knew that roads were necessary for their commerce (businesses). Pres. Obama makes a mistake of separating people from business. They are the same. Roads, the internet, all grew in response to a need by people who were creating and building businesses. 3G and 4G wireless is being driven by needs, not being created to see if a need exists.

A lot of people created retail enterprizes, but few created Amazon or eBay. Those people of great creativity and drive made those businesses, just as surely as Steve Jobs made Apple. And just to note, Jobs made Apple what it is today because he failed and was fired. When he returned to Apple, Steve Jobs had a better appreciation of what it meant to create a product and a market, not just to create a product and hope for a market (Lisa as an example). The creative and productive people who do create businesses drive innovations and demands for othr products. The productivity of the US economy drove a demand that was satisfied by the inter-state highway system which was paid for by excise taxes (user fees) and provided a large number of jobs.

Pres. Obama is wrong, and he consistently fails to understand the world of commerce. Onehas to wonder if he really does see business as something to be shunned. And as for those who are successful who want to give back, many do. They are called venture capitalists. And we thank them.

 

[Carjosse]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Why do people double post?

 

[AdamT]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

The full context of the speech makes the statement even more incorrect.

As an example, roads. The public didn't build roads and then hope for commerce to use the roads. Roads were initially carved out by the people who needed them for commerce (businesses). Then as the communities grew, around commerce (businesses) people knew that roads were necessary for their commerce (businesses). Pres. Obama makes a mistake of separating people from business. They are the same. Roads, the internet, all grew in response to a need by people who were creating and building businesses. 3G and 4G wireless is being driven by needs, not being created to see if a need exists.

The interstate highway system was carved out from scratch anticipating, correctly, that people would use it and that it would benefit commerce.

A lot of people created retail enterprizes, but few created Amazon or eBay. Those people of great creativity and drive made those businesses, just as surely as Steve Jobs made Apple.

Amazon and Ebay would not exist if thousands of people had not created and optimized internet communications, backbones, database applications, mail delivery systems, electronic banking, etc., etc.

And just to note, Jobs made Apple what it is today because he failed and was fired. When he returned to Apple, Steve Jobs had a better appreciation of what it meant to create a product and a market, not just to create a product and hope for a market (Lisa as an example). The creative and productive people who do create businesses drive innovations and demands for othr products. The productivity of the US economy drove a demand that was satisfied by the inter-state highway system which was paid for by excise taxes (user fees) and provided a large number of jobs.

Jobs owes much of his success to an earlier operating system that he copied to create the first Mac OS. Since then much of his success is attributable to the awesome design work of Jonathan Ive.

Pres. Obama is wrong, and he consistently fails to understand the world of commerce. Onehas to wonder if he really does see business as something to be shunned. And as for those who are successful who want to give back, many do. They are called venture capitalists. And we thank them.

No, he's correct. It is a truism that no man is an island. Read some Nassim Taleb books to get an understanding of probability, i.e. in any very large population of people there are going to be X number of very successful people and X number of unsuccessful people and quite often what distinguishes them has little or nothing to do with hard work or ability.

 

[ArizonaIrish]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Which of them were elected in a free and fair election, consisting of all the adults living in their jurisdiction? The United States at the time was not a republic, it was an oligarchy based on gender, race, and wealth. The US didn't even become a de jure republic until 1920, and it didn't become a de facto republic until 1965. None of the Founding Fathers were legitimately elected to anything.

You are judging events in the past using standards of today. That is invalid. To use that methodoloby, no political leader of today is legitimate as the standards of tomorrow will be different. The percent of the population of the colonies who did have access to the political system was extrodinary at the time and even for later times.

And while the founding fathers struggled with slavery at the Constituional Convention, as a nation, race was reduced in importance, as was religion and gender. In the world, race was coincident with nationality (the English and French were "different" races), and in almost every nation, there was an accepted religion and tolerated religions. Women in the US had many rights and freedoms, though voting did lag for many years (a short 130 in historical terms).

 

[AGENT J]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

It's not a truism. plenty of people didn't have a great person in their lives to help them out growing up and still created a business. It's not required to have some great person/experience in your past to do something worthwhile. In fact, saying such is incredibly disrespectful for those people who pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and did so.


Not that obama would know anything about hard work, or creating a successful business for that matter. hence his stupid comment.

actually it is a truism and 100% fact, you just proved that you dont understand the reality of things in this country.

 

[jet57]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- O

Is Obama really this stupid?

Right up there with not knowing how many states there are, what the function of the joint chiefs' is and numerous other stupid **** like america inventing the automobile.

And ya I corrected his horrible "got" grammar. Sue me.

edit:
Obama: If You've Got a Business, You Didn't Build That ... - YouTube

Okay; here's how we settle this: go out and start a business - by yourself. Keep it a one man shop and build it into your own little empire with thousands of customers and delivery trucks with several regional routes. Don't forget to hit your own manufacturing quota; DAILY!! Write your own advertising; print your own adds and shoot your own commercials. Work all three shifts so that you can keep up with demand: don't forget payroll; of course you'll just be payin' yourself - file single 0, it'll help at tax time. Oh, and do your own taxes too.

Ga'head, show that mean ol' Obama that a real man can do it all himself - all of it.