I think we've had enough

[NWRatCon]

I think humans are generally decent and care for each other. There's a lot of kindness out there, which is why humanity has survived for thousands of millenia. That reality is obscured by ugliness that does exist, and we go through paroxysms of it on regular bases - pogroms, wars, conquests, revolutions, inquisitions, and social upheavals - but, like "the news", it's of note because it's "different".

Outside of that, though, mankind has gone through huge periods of civilization building, from the establishment of agriculture, the invention of languages, of writing, of printing, the golden ages of Greek philosophy, the Renaissance, the industrial revolution, and our global information age. What these all have in common is cooperation and aspiration for something better.

Politics, or more precisely, discussing politics, brings out some of our worst behaviors. We've spent more than 4 years dealing with the fallout of elevating narcissism and lauding antisocial behavior. I think we've had enough. I think Joe Biden was elected not because he was the most talented politician, or the smartest, or most charismatic, but because he's fundamentally a decent guy. I think January 6 was a high water mark for the politics of destruction, as September 18 demonstrated, and the retention of Gavin Newsom. People want rational policy, decent behavior, cooperation. They want science to guide policy in the pandemic, and on the climate, and fairness to inspire our laws. They've had it with selfishness and destruction (and for you to grow up and get the damned shot).

Not everyone, obviously, but most of us. I think we've had enough. We want all of us to do better.

 

[Craig234]

I think humans are generally decent and care for each other. There's a lot of kindness out there, which is why humanity has survived for thousands of millenia. That reality is obscured by ugliness that does exist, and we go through paroxysms of it on regular bases - pogroms, wars, conquests, revolutions, inquisitions, and social upheavals - but, like "the news", it's of note because it's "different".

Outside of that, though, mankind has gone through huge periods of civilization building, from the establishment of agriculture, the invention of languages, of writing, of printing, the golden ages of Greek philosophy, the Renaissance, the industrial revolution, and our global information age. What these all have in common is cooperation and aspiration for something better.

Politics, or more precisely, discussing politics, brings out some of our worst behaviors. We've spent more than 4 years dealing with the fallout of elevating narcissism and lauding antisocial behavior. I think we've had enough. I think Joe Biden was elected not because he was the most talented politician, or the smartest, or most charismatic, but because he's fundamentally a decent guy. I think January 6 was a high water mark for the politics of destruction, as September 18 demonstrated, and the retention of Gavin Newsom. People want rational policy, decent behavior, cooperation. They want science to guide policy in the pandemic, and on the climate, and fairness to inspire our laws. They've had it with selfishness and destruction (and for you to grow up and get the damned shot).

Not everyone, obviously, but most of us. I think we've had enough. We want all of us to do better.

I think a basic problem of politics is numbers. It's one thing to think of a person in your area to help and another to think of a billion people. A basic problem of our political system is when its most powerful influences go from people whose priority is the public good to people whose priority is 'special interests' often at odds with the public good, obvious examples being tobacco, fossil fuels, military contractors, and various polluters..

My concern with your point about 'had enough, basically decent people' is illustrated by the Jimmy Carter presidency, where I see more and more analogy with Biden, and I don't mean that as an insult to either. Carter followed Nixon where we 'had enough', was a very decent person, but left the country vulnerable literally to the "Make America Great Again" mentality ready to pick a con man.

Many voters want a 'strongman' or a flashy leader who they feel has that 'great' quality that few feel Biden has, making him politically vulnerable. That's not a prediction he'd have a problem, because the sentiment you describe is pretty strong also, but it's a danger. People get complacent and take 'good government' for granted.

Add to that the huge level of delusion among much of the country now, how absurdly Biden's approval has gone below 50% for no good reason. Unfortunately the billions of dollars Republicans can spend to attack Democrats and hype their corrupt politicians fools many voters. It's really showing a vulnerability to our system, when we have a Republican Party that is now so disastrous, and yet still is in position to regain one or both houses.

 

[Cameron]

Some people have obviously not had enough, and it's a disturbingly large number. I don't think Biden's doing a great job, and that is concerning to me as it would be easy to slip backwards to where we were a year ago and indeed to something considerably worse.

Weirdly I don't even think the deplorables actually support 80% of the positions they take, deep down. They've been manipulated into hating other groups and their actions seem to be driven primarily from that hate, not any kind of ideology or policy. Humans seem to have an irresistible pull towards tribalism that overcomes all rational thinking.

 

[Craig234]

I don't think Biden's doing a great job, and that is concerning to me as it would be easy to slip backwards to where we were a year ago and indeed to something considerably worse.

Biden is doing a pretty great job - if he wasn't blocked by Manchin and Senima. If we passed voting rights and the spending bills, he'd have a historically great presidency.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I think humans are generally decent and care for each other. There's a lot of kindness out there, which is why humanity has survived for thousands of millenia. That reality is obscured by ugliness that does exist, and we go through paroxysms of it on regular bases - pogroms, wars, conquests, revolutions, inquisitions, and social upheavals - but, like "the news", it's of note because it's "different".

Outside of that, though, mankind has gone through huge periods of civilization building, from the establishment of agriculture, the invention of languages, of writing, of printing, the golden ages of Greek philosophy, the Renaissance, the industrial revolution, and our global information age. What these all have in common is cooperation and aspiration for something better.

Politics, or more precisely, discussing politics, brings out some of our worst behaviors. We've spent more than 4 years dealing with the fallout of elevating narcissism and lauding antisocial behavior. I think we've had enough. I think Joe Biden was elected not because he was the most talented politician, or the smartest, or most charismatic, but because he's fundamentally a decent guy. I think January 6 was a high water mark for the politics of destruction, as September 18 demonstrated, and the retention of Gavin Newsom. People want rational policy, decent behavior, cooperation. They want science to guide policy in the pandemic, and on the climate, and fairness to inspire our laws. They've had it with selfishness and destruction (and for you to grow up and get the damned shot).

Not everyone, obviously, but most of us. I think we've had enough. We want all of us to do better.

Love what you said up there ^^^
But in the end, some folks have invested BILLIONS in building hate, and when billions get spent, they expect results.
So in the end at least some of this is going to depend upon groups and persons running out of money, or realizing that they wasted most of it.

It needs to be said that we haven't done enough to make this ghastly conduct expensive.
The more painful the hit to their wallets, the sooner they'll rein in their behavior.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Biden is doing a pretty great job - if he wasn't blocked by Manchin and Senima. If we passed voting rights and the spending bills, he'd have a historically great presidency.

But it is up to Biden to start twisting arms.
LBJ did it.

 

[Neomalthusian]

My concern with your point about 'had enough, basically decent people' is illustrated by the Jimmy Carter presidency, where I see more and more analogy with Biden, and I don't mean that as an insult to either. Carter followed Nixon where we 'had enough', was a very decent person, but left the country vulnerable literally to the "Make America Great Again" mentality ready to pick a con man.

There's a lot more to this period of time. There were some major, globally historic economic events taking place in the early to mid 1970s which paved the way for Reagan. The energy crises, stagflation, the end of Bretton Woods, and the dawn of globalization were literally reshaping the economics of the country in fundamental and permanent ways. This was all happening before Reagan, and liberals vilify him to this day as if he had singularly caused those changes. But he was elected after these things had already been taking place, and to a significant degree in response to these things taking place, because it was easy for conservatively-oriented people of that day to place blame (even if misplaced) on the liberalism and welfare statism of some of his predecessors for the negative side effects of these major events.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Love what you said up there ^^^
But in the end, some folks have invested BILLIONS in building hate, and when billions get spent, they expect results.

That's quite dramatic. "Billions building hate." Can you be specific?

 

[calamity]

I think humans are generally decent and care for each other. There's a lot of kindness out there, which is why humanity has survived for thousands of millenia. That reality is obscured by ugliness that does exist, and we go through paroxysms of it on regular bases - pogroms, wars, conquests, revolutions, inquisitions, and social upheavals - but, like "the news", it's of note because it's "different".

Outside of that, though, mankind has gone through huge periods of civilization building, from the establishment of agriculture, the invention of languages, of writing, of printing, the golden ages of Greek philosophy, the Renaissance, the industrial revolution, and our global information age. What these all have in common is cooperation and aspiration for something better.

Politics, or more precisely, discussing politics, brings out some of our worst behaviors. We've spent more than 4 years dealing with the fallout of elevating narcissism and lauding antisocial behavior. I think we've had enough. I think Joe Biden was elected not because he was the most talented politician, or the smartest, or most charismatic, but because he's fundamentally a decent guy. I think January 6 was a high water mark for the politics of destruction, as September 18 demonstrated, and the retention of Gavin Newsom. People want rational policy, decent behavior, cooperation. They want science to guide policy in the pandemic, and on the climate, and fairness to inspire our laws. They've had it with selfishness and destruction (and for you to grow up and get the damned shot).

Not everyone, obviously, but most of us. I think we've had enough. We want all of us to do better.

I blame Fox News. They converted people who used to only mildly disagree with the opposition on matters of economics and a few social issues into fire breathing, mindless zombies who attack everyone and everything in the country that is not exactly like them, in essence making most of America their enemy.

 

[Cameron]

That's quite dramatic. "Billions building hate." Can you be specific?

Talk radio is at least a near billion-dollar industry and is over 90% right-wing propaganda. This is where most of our current political problems originate.

Talk Radio by the Numbers

Conservative talk may dominate radio, but here’s a by-the-numbers look at a recent CAP report that shows it doesn’t have to be that way.

www.americanprogress.org

 

[Schweddy]

Weirdly I don't even think the deplorables actually support 80% of the positions they take, deep down.

Weirdly, I don't even think that anyone subscribed to the Democrat/Republican parties support 80% of the positions they take, deep down.

Most don't take any position at all.

 

[Craig234]

But it is up to Biden to start twisting arms.
LBJ did it.

LBJ was better at it and had more leverage.

He wasn't dealing with a Senator who was as corrupt as Manchin, and loyal to the right in as many ways. When he faced a filibuster over civil rights, it lasted 60 days, but it ended. They don't end now.

 

[Craig234]

Talk radio is at least a near billion-dollar industry and is over 90% right-wing propaganda. This is where most of our current political problems originate.

I just wrote a post I decided not to post for now about that and related issues how Republicans bring a gun to the gunfight, and Democrats don't. It's hugely warping our politics, creating tyranny of the minority plutocrats.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

LBJ was better at it and had more leverage.

He wasn't dealing with a Senator who was as corrupt as Manchin, and loyal to the right in as many ways. When he faced a filibuster over civil rights, it lasted 60 days, but it ended. They don't end now.

Because we've allowed it to devolve into a "push-button" move where one doesn't even need to stand up and speak.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Talk radio is at least a near billion-dollar industry and is over 90% right-wing propaganda. This is where most of our current political problems originate.

One might easily argue just the opposite - citing the reason talk radio is so popular on the right, and why the majority of it is right leaning - and why left-leaning talk radio has proven such a failure.

But with one point I'd have to agree - if you were successful in getting rid of the vast number of people right of your opinion, you'd be free of your "problems," but no doubt laden with some unexpected new ones.

 

[SheWolf]

I think a basic problem of politics is numbers. It's one thing to think of a person in your area to help and another to think of a billion people. A basic problem of our political system is when its most powerful influences go from people whose priority is the public good to people whose priority is 'special interests' often at odds with the public good, obvious examples being tobacco, fossil fuels, military contractors, and various polluters..

My concern with your point about 'had enough, basically decent people' is illustrated by the Jimmy Carter presidency, where I see more and more analogy with Biden, and I don't mean that as an insult to either. Carter followed Nixon where we 'had enough', was a very decent person, but left the country vulnerable literally to the "Make America Great Again" mentality ready to pick a con man.

Many voters want a 'strongman' or a flashy leader who they feel has that 'great' quality that few feel Biden has, making him politically vulnerable. That's not a prediction he'd have a problem, because the sentiment you describe is pretty strong also, but it's a danger. People get complacent and take 'good government' for granted.

Add to that the huge level of delusion among much of the country now, how absurdly Biden's approval has gone below 50% for no good reason. Unfortunately the billions of dollars Republicans can spend to attack Democrats and hype their corrupt politicians fools many voters. It's really showing a vulnerability to our system, when we have a Republican Party that is now so disastrous, and yet still is in position to regain one or both houses.

I think some people have no concept of good government nor can they see it getting worse. The only thing they are in touch with is their own anger. Maga voters are an example of it. Neo liberalism has made their lives harder, climate change will exacerbate that in the south, and they choose a leader who gave the rich massive tax breaks and told them to not take Covid seriously.

Biden is providing some normalcy, but this country still largely fails to address serious issues. Most people on SSN can’t afford their medicine, but Senators are mostly very wealthy and are owned by interest groups. The Senate not working at all to solve anything is going to cause more chaos and political violence in society. The Senate is supposed to function in order to solve society’s problems peacefully.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Talk radio is at least a near billion-dollar industry and is over 90% right-wing propaganda. This is where most of our current political problems originate.

Talk Radio by the Numbers

Conservative talk may dominate radio, but here’s a by-the-numbers look at a recent CAP report that shows it doesn’t have to be that way.

www.americanprogress.org

I'm not a fan of political talk radio, so I am not defending its content, but this doesn't show that "some people invest billions building hate." That implies there are a small number of rich supervillains using their money to create hateful notions out of nowhere and infect people's minds with it.

But this industry did not come into existence from billion dollar investments. It became a "billion dollar industry" over a long period of time, especially the last 30+ years, and not because a rich mastermind used his immense wealth to "build hate," but because 1) increasing numbers of people began to listen in, and 2) advertisers bid each other up to reach those increasing numbers of listeners.

Maybe a couple of notorious examples appear to have tried to create their own market by literally fabricating things that incite hatred, but most of this stuff (political talk radio) is just holding up a mirror to their audience's thoughts, parroting what they know is already rattling around in their audience's heads: the same anti-government fist-shaking polemics over and over and the people who already (and always have) had those attitudes listen in because it riles them up and gives them a shot of adrenaline and anger and makes them feel momentarily more powerful that someone out there claims to agree with them, and equips them with a few new zingers they can use the next time they're spouting off to one of their friends or family members. It doesn't cost them (listeners) anything, and advertisers want to reach those audiences, so they pay the content creators.

 

[Cameron]

One might easily argue just the opposite - citing the reason talk radio is so popular on the right, and why the majority of it is right leaning - and why left-leaning talk radio has proven such a failure.

Talk radio has indeed been very successful, although for now at least the people it has influenced remain a minority.

But with one point I'd have to agree - if you were successful in getting rid of the vast number of people right of your opinion, you'd be free of your "problems," but no doubt laden with some unexpected new ones.

Pretty sure you're the only person who has suggested "getting rid of the vast number of people," but it's nice to know how your mind works, and also supports the notion that right-wing propaganda is very widespread.

 

[Cameron]

I'm not a fan of political talk radio, so I am not defending its content, but this doesn't show that "some people invest billions building hate." That implies there are a small number of rich supervillains using their money to create hateful notions out of nowhere and infect people's minds with it.

But this industry did not come into existence from billion dollar investments. It became a "billion dollar industry" over a long period of time, especially the last 30+ years, and not because a rich mastermind used his immense wealth to "build hate," but because 1) increasing numbers of people began to listen in, and 2) advertisers bid each other up to reach those increasing numbers of listeners.

I feel like you are making a technical/semantic point. Through talk radio, billions indisputably are being spent to support a platform that is building hate. Whether this was the original intention of one "rich mastermind" I don't think is particularly important.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I feel like you are making a technical/semantic point. Through talk radio, billions indisputably are being spent to support a platform that is building hate. Whether this was the original intention of one "rich mastermind" I don't think is particularly important.

Maybe I am being technical, but it's because on the other side of the political spectrum, there appears to be a somewhat similar frenzied propaganda-based thought process that views virtually all the world's problems as ultimately being the result of super rich corporate billionaires owning government and rigging rules in their favor and so on.

 

[Cameron]

Maybe I am being technical, but it's because on the other side of the political spectrum, there appears to be a somewhat similar frenzied propaganda-based thought process that views virtually all the world's problems as ultimately being the result of super rich corporate billionaires owning government and rigging rules in their favor and so on.

I don't disagree; this is something I fear but I think it is about 10 years out still. I hope the GOP is able to reinvent itself into something resembling a responsible party before the extremists on the other side grow into power.

 

[Blue Dog]

There was a time when people were more interested in finding common ground. Eisenhower Republicans and Kennedy Democrats had more in common than in difference. Compromise was a viable option.

That era is long gone replaced by those who would rather destroy the country in the name of partisan idealism.

Unfortunately not enough people are sick of the internecine caterwauling to change…

 

[itstony]

The problem today is that both sides are so far apart, much more than I have ever seen before. The truth is that Biden has done a pretty good job by handling some difficult issues head on and the right can't deal with it. Look at the fuss over the Afghanistan exit, exactly why is there any anger or criticism over what happened? We got out with no loss of life by American citizens even though the previous government and military folded like a cheap card table early on. We got everyone out except a coupe hundred people that had ample opportunities but failed to act for whatever reason. I realize we had one last suicide attack that took the lives of 13 servicemen, but that's been happening in the region for 20 years but won't happen to American soldiers anymore in Afghanistan, seems like a win to me. Even so, the right will never see the good in what took place but the have no problem justifying a traitorous insurrection of 1/6/21 that was instigated by their chosen one. That's how far apart the thinking of the two sides are and it goes on example after example. We now have the parties of the extreme and there is no room in the middle for common sense.

 

[Crovax]

I think humans are generally decent and care for each other. There's a lot of kindness out there, which is why humanity has survived for thousands of millenia. That reality is obscured by ugliness that does exist, and we go through paroxysms of it on regular bases - pogroms, wars, conquests, revolutions, inquisitions, and social upheavals - but, like "the news", it's of note because it's "different".

Outside of that, though, mankind has gone through huge periods of civilization building, from the establishment of agriculture, the invention of languages, of writing, of printing, the golden ages of Greek philosophy, the Renaissance, the industrial revolution, and our global information age. What these all have in common is cooperation and aspiration for something better.

Politics, or more precisely, discussing politics, brings out some of our worst behaviors. We've spent more than 4 years dealing with the fallout of elevating narcissism and lauding antisocial behavior. I think we've had enough. I think Joe Biden was elected not because he was the most talented politician, or the smartest, or most charismatic, but because he's fundamentally a decent guy. I think January 6 was a high water mark for the politics of destruction, as September 18 demonstrated, and the retention of Gavin Newsom. People want rational policy, decent behavior, cooperation. They want science to guide policy in the pandemic, and on the climate, and fairness to inspire our laws. They've had it with selfishness and destruction (and for you to grow up and get the damned shot).

Not everyone, obviously, but most of us. I think we've had enough. We want all of us to do better.

I think your observation of humanity is flawed. Humans are assholes at their core, just look at how people act when they are anonymous and when they know there is little to no repercussions for their actions. This is easily shown to be the case with a simple example, driving. The freeways are filled with people who would be nice to your face but have no quams about putting you in mortal danger because you might make them spend an extra 30 seconds in traffic.

 

[Buckeyes85]

I'm not a fan of political talk radio, so I am not defending its content, but this doesn't show that "some people invest billions building hate." That implies there are a small number of rich supervillains using their money to create hateful notions out of nowhere and infect people's minds with it.

But this industry did not come into existence from billion dollar investments. It became a "billion dollar industry" over a long period of time, especially the last 30+ years, and not because a rich mastermind used his immense wealth to "build hate," but because 1) increasing numbers of people began to listen in, and 2) advertisers bid each other up to reach those increasing numbers of listeners.

Its as if you never heard of Rupert Murdoch and Fox news.