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I think this is a good idea

Aunt Spiker said:
My oldest suffered a lot in his first years because of my inability to parent properly - or even take care of myself. I was a recovering anorexic and I had developed anemia and married an absolute ass who, also, wasn't mature enough to handle anything. Us together were craptacular parents - and I didn't even care.
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I have several female members of my extended family who got pregnant young too, and they weren't ready to be parents either. One I had to help raise for quite some time.

People talk about the hardships of getting an abortion, which is true. But there are also hardship for keeping and raising a child. And that's not a Hallmark TV special. It's not a sit-com. It's not a feel good movie. There are a lot of valid real world hardships. And not every person is capable of doing a good job of being a parent at certain times in their lives.

So if we are going to talk about the emotional turmoil of getting an abortion let's also talk about the emotional turmoil of raising a child when a woman might have to do it alone and may also have to hold down a job while doing it and we have no way of ensuring that women are taught all the things they need to know to be a parent when they do get pregnant.

If we're going to inform women on whether to bring a pregnancy to term, let's inform her on all the things she'll need to know to do a good job as a parent so she can make the decision on whether she can handle it or not.
 
samsmart said:
I have several female members of my extended family who got pregnant young too, and they weren't ready to be parents either. One I had to help raise for quite some time.

People talk about the hardships of getting an abortion, which is true. But there are also hardship for keeping and raising a child. And that's not a Hallmark TV special. It's not a sit-com. It's not a feel good movie. There are a lot of valid real world hardships. And not every person is capable of doing a good job of being a parent at certain times in their lives.

So if we are going to talk about the emotional turmoil of getting an abortion let's also talk about the emotional turmoil of raising a child when a woman might have to do it alone and may also have to hold down a job while doing it and we have no way of ensuring that women are taught all the things they need to know to be a parent when they do get pregnant.

If we're going to inform women on whether to bring a pregnancy to term, let's inform her on all the things she'll need to know to do a good job as a parent so she can make the decision on whether she can handle it or not.
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Good post.

Which begs the question of those who are so damn determined to put all women (or girls) into one little box, call them murderers, but those who think such things have NOT adopted an unwanted child or supported an unwanted child that was born but mistreated or ignored. Bet none here foaming at the mouth about how bad abortion is, have not done any of that. All they do is scream like a banshee.
 
RamFel said:
I think the poor girls are stuck in the middle of a tug of war. Both sides have been guilty.

The video gives her a chance to be alone with her thoughts, and some important information.
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Hogwash. All you want to do is push YOUR opinions off on others.
Hey! How many children were not aborted due to people like you have you given a home to? Paid the medical expenses of the mother? Adopted to raise and care for as your own? Huh? How many? Gosh. I can't hear you. Speak louder. HOW MANY?
 
RamFel said:
I think it would be a great idea if someone could produce a 30 minute video, with no narration and no dialog, but there should be ambient sound however. And it should show three things. (1) it should show an abortion being performed. (2) it should show a fetus once it has been aborted. (3) it should show the fetuses being disposed of.

The reason I don’t want narration or dialog is because I don’t want either side to try to influence the viewer. The intended viewer are the girls who show up at the abortion clinic to have an abortion performed. There should also be some kind of rule, or law that stipulates that before the abortion is performed, the young woman should watch the entire video. If they refuse to watch the video, then the doctor could not perform the abortion. That's the rule.

I think it’s time to show these girls exactly what’s involved, and what happens to this blob of cells, this non-person,as some like to call it. After all, these girls are making an important decision. And it’s their right to know all that’s involved.

What do you think?
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No use of fuzzy camera lenses, soft music, or credit given to any special interest group.
 
RamFel said:
I think it would be a great idea if someone could produce a 30 minute video, with no narration and no dialog, but there should be ambient sound however. And it should show three things. (1) it should show an abortion being performed. (2) it should show a fetus once it has been aborted. (3) it should show the fetuses being disposed of.

The reason I don’t want narration or dialog is because I don’t want either side to try to influence the viewer. The intended viewer are the girls who show up at the abortion clinic to have an abortion performed. There should also be some kind of rule, or law that stipulates that before the abortion is performed, the young woman should watch the entire video. If they refuse to watch the video, then the doctor could not perform the abortion. That's the rule.

I think it’s time to show these girls exactly what’s involved, and what happens to this blob of cells, this non-person,as some like to call it. After all, these girls are making an important decision. And it’s their right to know all that’s involved.

What do you think?
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I think that you're lying through you teeth in the bolded section. Influencing the viewer is exactly what you want. Specifically, you want to influence her not to have an abortion.
 
Reg said:
And while we're at it, let's sneak a camera into the zoo and produce a video of the chimps having sex without any regard for self control.
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Leave your taste in porn out of it.
 
RamFel said:
I think it would be a great idea if someone could produce a 30 minute video, with no narration and no dialog, but there should be ambient sound however. And it should show three things. (1) it should show an abortion being performed. (2) it should show a fetus once it has been aborted. (3) it should show the fetuses being disposed of.

The reason I don’t want narration or dialog is because I don’t want either side to try to influence the viewer. The intended viewer are the girls who show up at the abortion clinic to have an abortion performed. There should also be some kind of rule, or law that stipulates that before the abortion is performed, the young woman should watch the entire video. If they refuse to watch the video, then the doctor could not perform the abortion. That's the rule.

I think it’s time to show these girls exactly what’s involved, and what happens to this blob of cells, this non-person,as some like to call it. After all, these girls are making an important decision. And it’s their right to know all that’s involved.

What do you think?
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I think that is the most ridiculous idea I have heard, thusfar, today. (Albeit, the day is still young.) Do you think that someone going in for knee replacement surgery should be forced to watch a video of the procedure?You seem to be assuming that an abortion is not an already traumatic procedure, even without being primed for it with your video.

I think you should mind your own business and stay out of other people's reproductive bodily processes.
 
RamFel said:
I think you want to make too many videos, but I agree as long as you don't produce too many and try to take unfair advantage.
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...what the ****? You completely missed the point of Sam's post if you think he actually wants to make videos
 
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Reg said:
The reason there is pushback on that is that the abortion industrial complex knows they have to couch reality in euphemisms, because if you saw what was really being done, you'd reject it.
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"Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're f*cked."

George Carlin
 
Aunt Spiker said:
My oldest suffered a lot in his first years because of my inability to parent properly - or even take care of myself. I was a recovering anorexic and I had developed anemia and married an absolute ass who, also, wasn't mature enough to handle anything. Us together were craptacular parents - and I didn't even care.

I care now. . . I wish I could go back and change a lot of things that I did wrong.

When you're talking about living beings - every day they grow and learn something. A solid environment is essential for a successful life. . . and I still feel bad that I failed my oldest so miserably.
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eh- oldest born kids usually get the shaft. My younger sister has it MUCH better than me. Parents are inexperienced, immature, and more self centered when they're younger. They gain perspective by the time their other kids come along. If your eldest is successful, you did alright.

RamFel said:
Ahh...You've unwittingly gave me the exact answer I was looking for..."the entire point of the video is to persuade women not to abort." In one respect, the video doesn't really persuade women to abort. Remember, the video doesn't contain dialog or narration of any kind. But on the other hand, the stark reality of what she's about to go do to her baby CAN persuade her not to abort.

When you pointed out that the video's intent was to persuade women not to abort, you revealed that you don't want women to see this video because of what she might decide in the positive. The video, no matter what you might think of it, is revealing. Nobody is talking to her trying to talk her into doing one thing or the other. What you're afraid of is that, left alone, after having seen what will happen (being informed) she'll decide to keep the baby. And so you don't want her armed with this important information.

Thanks for your input.
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Hog wash. All you want to do is take advantage of emotionally fragile women at their moment of weakness to further your own agenda. Most people can see right through this. I doubt most women would change their minds anyhow. I wouldn't.
 
evanescence said:
eh- oldest born kids usually get the shaft. .
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I can still remember my older sister sneaking out of her room late at night to visit her boyfriend.

I suspected at the time that she probably was.
 
evanescence said:
lol most girls are by the time they're 17. The average is 16 for boys.
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I must be as average as all get up, then, but I do believe my sister was a bit ahead of the curve.
 
RamFel said:
I think it would be a great idea if someone could produce a 30 minute video, with no narration and no dialog, but there should be ambient sound however. And it should show three things. (1) it should show an abortion being performed. (2) it should show a fetus once it has been aborted. (3) it should show the fetuses being disposed of.

The reason I don’t want narration or dialog is because I don’t want either side to try to influence the viewer. The intended viewer are the girls who show up at the abortion clinic to have an abortion performed. There should also be some kind of rule, or law that stipulates that before the abortion is performed, the young woman should watch the entire video. If they refuse to watch the video, then the doctor could not perform the abortion. That's the rule.

I think it’s time to show these girls exactly what’s involved, and what happens to this blob of cells, this non-person,as some like to call it. After all, these girls are making an important decision. And it’s their right to know all that’s involved.

What do you think?
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I think this is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever read with respect to the abortion debate. Not that you are dumb, not that you are dumb for coming up with it, just the idea.

When I was in college, there was this pro-life club that would set up a table in the middle of the common area during the high-traffic times, and in addition to literature and whatever else they also displayed pictures of aborted fetuses. Blood, body parts, the whole schmorgesborg, all on display during the lunch rush. They had piles of dead-baby postcards and everything.

The problem with those kinds of materials isn't the gross-out factor -- it's the way humans generally respond to such things. It's too much, it's an overload, our brains turn off and make us look away so as to protect our psyches. It's not cowardice, it's not hard-heartedness, it's the instinct to protect the self (which includes the intellect and the personality) from destruction. The end result is that nobody who disagrees with the idiots displaying those materials is convinced of anything, because their brains instinctively won't let them absorb it.

If you were to force any woman, especially a young woman, to watch such a gruesomely detailed video right as she rests on the cusp of what is arguably one of the worst experiences of her life, you will get one of three results:
  • You completely fail to reach her because her psyche will shield her from what you're trying to do
  • You will force her to depart with all due haste so that she isn't forced to watch it
  • You destroy her mind
It would be uselessly cruel, and don't give any horse**** about how it's cruel to the unborn child -- the law recognizes the rights of the mother, and does not recognize the rights of the unborn child. Until that changes, backdoor knife-twisting like this nothing more than the coward's way around the legal recognition of the mother's right to choose.
 
samsmart said:
Sure, as long as we also produce a 30 minute video of the consequences of giving birth to an unwanted pregnancy. Let's watch these teenage girls and young women try to support themselves while taking care of a child. Let's watch them try to take care of a child for the next 18 years of their life while they try to hold down a job without a college education because they can't spend the time or effort in it because they're so busy taking care of their child. Let's let those women watch what it's like to try to take care of themselves and their children in poverty, and what kind of lives are led by those children.

And while we're at it, let's also produce a 30 minute video that is nothing but interviews of women who were raped and got pregnant by it. And we can show what those women think about whether to carry the pregnancy to term or not.

And while we're at it, let's also produce a 30 minute video on explaining the various contraceptive devices available to women to help them not get pregnant in the first place.

And while we're at it, let's also produce a 30 minute video explaining how those who don't want them to get abortions also don't want to help get birth control easily and cheaply available as part of a health insurance plan.

And while we're at it, let's also produce a 30 minute video explaining why it's women who must bear the responsibility of using a contraceptive because medical companies refuse to make a birth control pill available to men.

I think those are all good ideas too.
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Let's also show the women who do all that and succeed. My sister for example. She had 2 kids by the time she was 18 (unmarried, no support) and worked her way through a BS in sociology, had another kid while working on her Masters and is now an MSW with 4 of her own, and three adopted.

Everyone wants to paint the worst picture possible in order to support their views. Having a child is not the end of anyone's life. Many, if not most, of the people you are citing would being the exact same position you describe without ever having had a child. I know plenty of them, too.
 
mac said:
Let's also show the women who do all that and succeed. My sister for example. She had 2 kids by the time she was 18 (unmarried, no support) and worked her way through a BS in sociology, had another kid while working on her Masters and is now an MSW with 4 of her own, and three adopted.

Everyone wants to paint the worst picture possible in order to support their views. Having a child is not the end of anyone's life. Many, if not most, of the people you are citing would being the exact same position you describe without ever having had a child. I know plenty of them, too.
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Good for her. What does that have to do with everyone else?
 
evanescence said:
Good for her. What does that have to do with everyone else?
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It has every bit as much to do with everyone else as Samsmart's comment that i replied to does.
 
evanescence said:
Your sister's life has nothing to do with another person's life. Nothing.
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Do you think my sister is the only woman capable of succeeding despite adversity?
 
RamFel said:
I think it would be a great idea if someone could produce a 30 minute video, with no narration and no dialog, but there should be ambient sound however. And it should show three things. (1) it should show an abortion being performed. (2) it should show a fetus once it has been aborted. (3) it should show the fetuses being disposed of.

The reason I don’t want narration or dialog is because I don’t want either side to try to influence the viewer. The intended viewer are the girls who show up at the abortion clinic to have an abortion performed. There should also be some kind of rule, or law that stipulates that before the abortion is performed, the young woman should watch the entire video. If they refuse to watch the video, then the doctor could not perform the abortion. That's the rule.

I think it’s time to show these girls exactly what’s involved, and what happens to this blob of cells, this non-person,as some like to call it. After all, these girls are making an important decision. And it’s their right to know all that’s involved.

What do you think?
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And who would you force to watch this video? Because I do know one fact, no one would watch it on their own time unless they were forced to.
 
mac said:
Do you think my sister is the only woman capable of succeeding despite adversity?
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Your sister does have an incredible story. My congratulations to her on her achievements. I have to wonder how much family support she received along the way, of course, it is an incredible achievement regardless of how much help she received.
 
OKgrannie said:
Your sister does have an incredible story. My congratulations to her on her achievements. I have to wonder how much family support she received along the way, of course, it is an incredible achievement regardless of how much help she received.
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Nearly none. She was the oldest...my brothers were teens, and I was pre-teen..through most of it. There was very little help we could give. She worked, went to school and supported her kids. She had some inconsistent child support from one of the fathers, but that was about it.
 
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