I Am Tired...

[Jetboogieman]

blame the constant lowering of interest rates.

Sorry, just want to check something here.

Do you blame the constant lowering of interest rates?

 

[ludin]

There is no clever accounting, there are tax laws. If you want to complain because someone protects their income then write you Congress persons and complain about the laws they wrote. Ask Nancy Pelosi how much she paid in tax last year on her $100 million?

Nancy Pelosi Net Worth

What is Nancy Pelosi's net worth?

www.celebritynetworth.com

exactly. people are not hiding their money they are using it wisely.

 

[ludin]

Sorry, just want to check something here.

Do you blame the constant lowering of interest rates?

well if you knew what you were talking about you would know this but you don't.

so, in the 1970-80's interest rates on cd's bonds and savings accounts where high. 10-20% in some cases. you could buy a 6 month cd and make 15%. investing in the market was expensive and hard to do. many middle class workers instead put their money into those modes. they made a lot of money during that time and the returns on those investments were doing better than other investments.

during the mid 80's markets started shifting. interest rates came down. to 5-10%. by the 90's interest rates were 5% or lower.

there was 0 reason to put money into cd's bonds or savings accounts you will see a huge move in cash from those investments into the stock market. middle class americans never made the transition.

 

[Jetboogieman]

well if you knew what you were talking about you would know this but you don't.

so, in the 1970-80's interest rates on cd's bonds and savings accounts where high. 10-20% in some cases. you could buy a 6 month cd and make 15%. investing in the market was expensive and hard to do. many middle class workers instead put their money into those modes. they made a lot of money during that time and the returns on those investments were doing better than other investments.

during the mid 80's markets started shifting. interest rates came down. to 5-10%. by the 90's interest rates were 5% or lower.

there was 0 reason to put money into cd's bonds or savings accounts you will see a huge move in cash from those investments into the stock market. middle class americans never made the transition.

So you're saying things might get more balanced if interest rates went higher?

 

[ludin]

So you're saying things might get more balanced if interest rates went higher?

things would improve most middle class people still do not invest in the market.

if interest rates on savings and cd where in the 5% range you would see a more balanced approach right now you are lucky to get .5% interest on anything.

investing your savings into roth accounts are a better vehicle than a savings account.

 

[Metric Mouse]

I am talking about income inequality between the rich, middle class, and poor, If you look at the OP, it is all about and only about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and the economic injustices that come from that. There was nothing in the OP about the racial injustices seen then and now. In fact, if we were to compare those, I can say with confidence that economic inequality has gotten much worse now than racial justice has gotten better. That means that overall, things were better then than they are now.

The rich have improved their income by 937% over the middle and poor class and our racial injustice is no better than perhaps 20-30%

But that was my point; the poor African Americans were much, much worse off then than now. They didn't "dream of owning Amazon", they literally dreamt of being able to go to school or not be denied a house loan - all things that affect income. Being poor offered even fewer opportunities for success in those decades, social services were less robust (overall, obviously some areas are better and some worse now) and there was no reason for many people to even dream. Today there is still massive disparity, but the systemic barriers have been reduced. It's overall a much better system now than it was, even though much progress remains to be made.

 

[Simpletruther]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

This is fantasy. There were fewer entitlements back then. And nobody is stopping anyone from achieving their dreams now except over burdensome regulation thanks to the left.

More Inequality naturally fallows globalism that leverages cheap foreign labor.

 

[What if...?]

Two very important facts you might want to consider.

1. There are, and always will be, winners and losers in society.
2. Eventually, you run out of other people's money.

You presume that life is a game to be won. That this is the natural and best way for a group of human beings to relate to each other, the bedrock upon which all that is good is based.

That to the victor go the spoils.

And this is the logic of every tyranny, every conquerer.

I would posit that this model results in failure every time it is allowed to run it's course. Because it feeds a hunger which cannot be satiated.

 

[Grandpappy]

You presume that life is a game to be won. That this is the natural and best way for a group of human beings to relate to each other, the bedrock upon which all that is good is based.

That to the victor go the spoils.

And this is the logic of every tyranny, every conquerer.

I would posit that this model results in failure every time it is allowed to run it's course. Because it feeds a hunger which cannot be satiated.

Interesting post. Knowing human nature and history, do you really believe that?

 

[Questerr]

Two very important facts you might want to consider.

1. There are, and always will be, winners and losers in society.
2. Eventually, you run out of other people's money.

When will capitalists run out of other people's money (aka profits)?

 

[Questerr]

Hmm... would you define someone making $400K/year as a plutocrat or just one of their minions? Is a college football coach a plutocrat (if they are paid far more than the POTUS) or just one of their minions?

Considering college football coaches make their money off the unpaid labor of other people, yeah. They are plutocrats.

 

[Bullseye]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

{'m a similar age and what I remember of that time was encouragement to work hard in school, be respective, When you got a job, be sure to be on time, work hard. We didn't root for kumbaya programs and government give aways. Nobody was in favor or huge government giveaways or favoritism based on race, gender, or sexually proclivity.

 

[What if...?]

Interesting post. Knowing human nature and history, do you really believe that?

Historically the endless quest for more results in negative consequences for far more than benefit.

War advances technology, but it destroys much of value in the process.

This concept is a portion of my explanation of how we got where we are, which is too elaborate for a post. But it boils down to a set of pro-survival behaviors kept in check by social connections and general physical equality while we were hunting and gathering that became problematic when we settled down and started farming, creating wage labor and the management class and rigid hierarchies and professional guards/soldiers.

And of course some deserve more, and those who decide such things obviously do, right? Much more, in fact, considering the importance of what they do (and their lovely young wives' penchant for the jewelry the traders bring, of course.)

Then somebody decides that the neighboring rulers don't deserve all that stuff they're getting from their peasants and decide to take them for themselves. And exhaust the tribes' resources trying. Or they find themselves overwhelmed for the same reasons.

Which is the never ending hunger for more with the power to take all they can.

I don't see where that hasn't been at the heart of every collapse/failure not attributable to natural disaster. (The "Communist" experiments don't count as I have yet to see any effort to create a Worker's Paradise or dissolve the Vanguard from any of them.)

 

[PoS]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

Move to Venezuela or Cuba then.

 

[Excon]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. [...]

I am tired of people complaining about that nonsesne.

Why are you not getting richer?

 

[Luther]

Income IS wealth but I have no problem with a wealth tax also. A 1% tax on wealth over $100 million would be a painless way of raising revenue and send the right message too.

No, I like the idea of the 44%(way bigger than the 1%) that don't pay a Fed income tax to chip in just 1 dollar!


Just 1!!!!

 

[Luther]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

Sounds like you need to start your own socialist utopia somewhere?

 

[Luther]

Idealizing?

Give me the reasons why you believe we cannot go back to that kind of situation we had in the 80's?

Explain to me why you think this is right (chart below)

View attachment 67301655

and explain to me why we can't go back to that period economic situation

View attachment 67301656

In 1929, we had the same kind of income inequality we have today, in fact today is worse, and we had a depression and then between 1950 we had a great situation regarding income equality.

This is idealizing? I would say my mentioning it is trying to be preventive of what is to happen at some point soon, which will be worse than the 1929 depression. You don't want to prevent that from occurring? You think the rich getting richer is maintainable?

Why would you not want the 1% that pay the majority of the Fed income tax already to do well?

 

[gulfman]

What I don't understand is that the harder I work the luckier I get.

 

[Luckyone]

You have every chance in America to own your own business, company, home whatever you are clever enough and hard working enough to achieve. Not everyone suceeds because some are not cut out for it, some don't have the ability, the know how or the gumption. The wealthy get wealthy because they invest in making money, they start businesses and are lucky enough to succeed. What reason's are you denied your dream?

I am not going to go into details because this is something you know and if you don't know, just open your eyes. Every chance to own company? yes that is true but you have no chance to succeed. Try trying to sell something versus Amazon or even Walmart. You can't! Try offering a service and the same thing applies. The wealthy get wealthy because there is nothing in place to make others be able to be competitive. They get big tax breaks that are not available to you. They get economic help when needed because "they are too big to fail". You don't. Etc, etc, etc. The odds are totally stacked against you before you even start![/QUOTE]

 

[Luckyone]

But that was my point; the poor African Americans were much, much worse off then than now. They didn't "dream of owning Amazon", they literally dreamt of being able to go to school or not be denied a house loan - all things that affect income. Being poor offered even fewer opportunities for success in those decades, social services were less robust (overall, obviously some areas are better and some worse now) and there was no reason for many people to even dream. Today there is still massive disparity, but the systemic barriers have been reduced. It's overall a much better system now than it was, even though much progress remains to be made.

I stand by my post!

 

[Luckyone]

Move to Venezuela or Cuba then.

What a piece of **** reply. I don't have to move there, we are heading there under Trump. That is what I am trying to change. You honestly think that Trump cares about you? It is the same as Chavez, Maduro and Castro, they do not care about anyone but themselves. The people are there to serve the rulers, just like you are serving Trump.

See this video regarding Chavez supporters. See the similarities to a Trump rally?

 

[Luckyone]

This is fantasy. There were fewer entitlements back then. And nobody is stopping anyone from achieving their dreams now except over burdensome regulation thanks to the left.

More Inequality naturally fallows globalism that leverages cheap foreign labor.

See post #95 for an answer

 

[Luckyone]

Sounds like you need to start your own socialist utopia somewhere?

You are doing exactly what I am saying is wrong. You are supporting the rich getting richer (Bezos and Zuckerberg for example) and not allowing the Smiths and Jones from putting up a business because they can never compete with the big company's because they get all the tax breaks, all the economic help they need, all the legal help making them able to bury your small company. You have "no chance" to succeed anymore

 

[Luther]

You are doing exactly what I am saying is wrong. You are supporting the rich getting richer (Bezos and Zuckerberg for example) and not allowing the Smiths and Jones from putting up a business because they can never compete with the big company's because they get all the tax breaks, all the economic help they need, all the legal help making them able to bury your small company. You have "no chance" to succeed anymore

You are supporting the rich getting richer

I am?


Notice the "New" part?

US added 700,000 new millionaires in 2017

The number of new millionaires and the total population of millionaires in the U.S. set a record.

www.cnbc.com