I Am Tired...

[Luckyone]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

 

[Grandpappy]

Two very important facts you might want to consider.

1. There are, and always will be, winners and losers in society.
2. Eventually, you run out of other people's money.

 

[Tim the plumber]

The primary reason the wealth gap is becoming greater is due to the shift of taxation since the 1960s from property to income.

In the 19th century the idea of taxing income was considered abhorent. Morally wrong. It happened in Britian due to the emergency of the Napolionic wars.

The basic idea of early 19th century taxation is that since it is the state that says you own property, no other force is there to justify you having private property other than your own and good luck on that, you should pay for that protection.

I think that is a good way to do it. We should move the greater burden of taxation from income to wealth.

 

[Craig234]

As I've long said, plutocracy is the #1 issue for the US. Everything else follows from it, including having a democracy that can address other issues.

If Nazis, or Martians, or communists, or disco fans, or gun nuts, or opera fans were taking over the country, I'd say that. But they're not. Plutocrats, and their minions, are. Which has been a leading issue for 150 years, and the leading issue for 50. And where the hell are centrist Democrats pointing this out? They're afraid of being called socialist for supporting the American people. Except progressives, the only group fighting the plutocrats.

 

[Luckyone]

Two very important facts you might want to consider.

1. There are, and always will be, winners and losers in society.
2. Eventually, you run out of other people's money.

You are saying exactly what one of the rich people (or those supporting them) would say. You are PROVING my point. Who the heck wants to think like you do?

 

[iguanaman]

The primary reason the wealth gap is becoming greater is due to the shift of taxation since the 1960s from property to income.

In the 19th century the idea of taxing income was considered abhorent. Morally wrong. It happened in Britian due to the emergency of the Napolionic wars.

The basic idea of early 19th century taxation is that since it is the state that says you own property, no other force is there to justify you having private property other than your own and good luck on that, you should pay for that protection.

I think that is a good way to do it. We should move the greater burden of taxation from income to wealth.

Income IS wealth but I have no problem with a wealth tax also. A 1% tax on wealth over $100 million would be a painless way of raising revenue and send the right message too.

 

[jonny5]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

What youre saying is mostly a fantasy based on movies and idealism. But why not move to another society if you dont agree with capitalism and are unhappy with our culture?

 

[trixare4kids]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

Just so you know, equal opportunity doesn't guarantee anyone an equal outcome.

Glad I could help. You're welcome.

 

[jonny5]

The primary reason the wealth gap is becoming greater is due to the shift of taxation since the 1960s from property to income.

In the 19th century the idea of taxing income was considered abhorent. Morally wrong. It happened in Britian due to the emergency of the Napolionic wars.

The basic idea of early 19th century taxation is that since it is the state that says you own property, no other force is there to justify you having private property other than your own and good luck on that, you should pay for that protection.

I think that is a good way to do it. We should move the greater burden of taxation from income to wealth.

That state doesnt say you own property. YOU say you own property, others say they own property, and you both agree. And you make a social contract not to interfere with each others claims. The state only exists to secure that agreement. And then you agree on a way to pay for that security, be it property tax, or income tax. or a sales tax, as federal things were funded by in the 19th century.

 

[Mycroft]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

There is only one thing that has changed from the way you remember things being in the 60's - 80's, and that is the rise of the Globalists.

If you were genuine about your thinking, then you should be one of Trump's biggest supporters because he is the ONLY person in DC who is a danger to the Globalists.

 

[Luckyone]

What youre saying is mostly a fantasy based on movies and idealism. But why not move to another society if you dont agree with capitalism and are unhappy with our culture?

Evidently, you do not read well.

I clearly stated and bolded it as well, that things were different in the 60-80's here in the USA. We were a capitalistic society then but not to the "extreme" we are now. All extremes are bad and we are at an extreme right now. The Uber rich have enough money for themselves and their entire families (cousins and nieces included) to live 10 lifetimes and not have to work one hour.....................and yet they want more and YOU want to give them more. That is what is wrong......extremes

 

[Luckyone]

Just so you know, equal opportunity doesn't guarantee anyone an equal outcome.

Glad I could help. You're welcome.

No it doesn't and I don't have to thank you for mentioning it. It is a start but true fact of life. Nonetheless, as I have said before and will say again, all extremes are wrong and our nation right now is at one of those extremes and usually extremes are like balloons or rubber bands. Fill them past their ability to stand or stretch them past their ability to stretch and you either explode or the resulting pull back takes you all the way to the other side. '

I guess you enjoy extremes. I don't because I know they are not maintainable.

 

[jdog21]

The primary reason the wealth gap is becoming greater is due to the shift of taxation since the 1960s from property to income.

In the 19th century the idea of taxing income was considered abhorent. Morally wrong. It happened in Britian due to the emergency of the Napolionic wars.

The basic idea of early 19th century taxation is that since it is the state that says you own property, no other force is there to justify you having private property other than your own and good luck on that, you should pay for that protection.

I think that is a good way to do it. We should move the greater burden of taxation from income to wealth.

I like this idea of having a progressive tax bracket system on property tax and shifting the burden of taxation to property tax instead of income tax. As well as treating capital gains as income so they can taxed appropriately.

 

[Hypothetical]

There is only one thing that has changed from the way you remember things being in the 60's - 80's, and that is the rise of the Globalists.

If you were genuine about your thinking, then you should be one of Trump's biggest supporters because he is the ONLY person in DC who is a danger to the Globalists.

this is exactly right. the wealthy globalists care nothing for how much money they have, they have more than enough for 10 lifetimes. it is the power over you they want. and one of the ways to increase that power is by eroding our freedoms. that is why they are behind all of this progressivism, because it furthers their goal of global supremacy and power.

 

[Torus34]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

Hi!

Just a side note, if I may. 'Socialist' seems to be the one-size-fits-all pejorative of choice for those of a certain ideological mindset. I see little, if any trend toward socialism in this country at present. Even Mr. Bernard Sanders did not advocate for government ownership and control of the means of production and distribution.

Hold your head up high. I assure you, you ain't no socialist.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

 

[jonny5]

Evidently, you do not read well.

I clearly stated and bolded it as well, that things were different in the 60-80's here in the USA. We were a capitalistic society then but not to the "extreme" we are now. All extremes are bad and we are at an extreme right now. The Uber rich have enough money for themselves and their entire families (cousins and nieces included) to live 10 lifetimes and not have to work one hour.....................and yet they want more and YOU want to give them more. That is what is wrong......extremes

Things were not differnt. Youre idealizing. But again, if youre unhappy with capitalism and our culture of individualism and freedom, why not move somewhere more to your liking? People do it all the time.

 

[Mycroft]

this is exactly right. the wealthy globalists care nothing for how much money they have, they have more than enough for 10 lifetimes. it is the power over you they want. and one of the ways to increase that power is by eroding our freedoms. that is why they are behind all of this progressivism, because it furthers their goal of global supremacy and power.

And they'll pay any legislator they can find...who'll accept their money...to get legislation that benefits them.

 

[jonny5]

Hi!

Just a side note, if I may. 'Socialist' seems to be the one-size-fits-all pejorative of choice for those of a certain ideological mindset. I see little, if any trend toward socialism in this country at present. Even Mr. Bernard Sanders did not advocate for government ownership and control of the means of production and distribution.

Hold your head up high. I assure you, you ain't no socialist.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

Various govts take half of everything produced in the country and then spend it mainly on social services/wealth redistribution. How is that not socialism? How is taking the product of labor from some and giving it to others not socialism? And how is not trend more towards it when that redistribution has grown exponentially in the last century? Govt spending has risen from 5% to 25% just since the New Deal. How is just the federal govt controlling 25% of everything produced not defacto ownership?

 

[Luckyone]

Things were not differnt. Youre idealizing. But again, if youre unhappy with capitalism and our culture of individualism and freedom, why not move somewhere more to your liking? People do it all the time.

Idealizing?

Give me the reasons why you believe we cannot go back to that kind of situation we had in the 80's?

Explain to me why you think this is right (chart below)



and explain to me why we can't go back to that period economic situation



In 1929, we had the same kind of income inequality we have today, in fact today is worse, and we had a depression and then between 1950 we had a great situation regarding income equality.

This is idealizing? I would say my mentioning it is trying to be preventive of what is to happen at some point soon, which will be worse than the 1929 depression. You don't want to prevent that from occurring? You think the rich getting richer is maintainable?

 

[Tim the plumber]

That state doesnt say you own property. YOU say you own property, others say they own property, and you both agree. And you make a social contract not to interfere with each others claims. The state only exists to secure that agreement. And then you agree on a way to pay for that security, be it property tax, or income tax. or a sales tax, as federal things were funded by in the 19th century.

Nope.

The power with the ability to take the property away from you or anybody else and give it to who it pleases is the one which says who owns what.

If the king chose to take your land then unlucky. If he gave you land you got it.

Today as we democratically are the king in a complex way we choose to have a load of laws that the state has to work by. This is a good idea.

But still it is the state that has said that your property is safe from others taking it away. That service should be paid for.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Income IS wealth but I have no problem with a wealth tax also. A 1% tax on wealth over $100 million would be a painless way of raising revenue and send the right message too.

How about a 1% tax on wealth and quarteer all other taxes?

 

[Tim the plumber]

I like this idea of having a progressive tax bracket system on property tax and shifting the burden of taxation to property tax instead of income tax. As well as treating capital gains as income so they can taxed appropriately.

No problem with all wealth being taxed equally. It is automatically progressive.

 

[iguanaman]

How about a 1% tax on wealth and quarteer all other taxes?

Income taxes with REAL progressive rates ( and even punitive ones) are a invaluable tool for limiting income disparity. There is no better way to "encourage" companies to invest in their business and share their profits more with their workers then a 75% rate on all income over a million $. We have seen what that can do here in the US.

 

[jdog21]

No problem with all wealth being taxed equally. It is automatically progressive.

You could say the same thing for income but yet we have brackets for that

 

[Yakshi]

You are saying exactly what one of the rich people (or those supporting them) would say. You are PROVING my point. Who the heck wants to think like you do?

Choosing a political party ended up being a Sociopath Test.

They don't understand liberals because something is missing in their heads.