I Am Tired...

[ttwtt78640]

The answer, of course, is never. Even when the gap was less, there was still rampant disparity. I think there's a reason why they call it the American Dream, and not the American Reality. Not that anyone anywhere else gets to claim superiority on this one...we haven't evolved enough yet as a species to where this has ever been demonstrably true. It's a solid goal...but an unmet one.

The American dream is not to become uber wealthy, but rather to become (and remain) middle class by working to earn enough to save for a comfortable retirement and perhaps help get your kids some secondary education.

I am (now) self-employed and know quite a few other folks who are as well. How much the CEO of Walmart makes or how much the uber rich can influence (corrupt) politicians has little to do with the ability of someone to earn a decent living even with a job (or small business) in the construction trades. Too many now seem want to see a McJob become a McCareer with a ridiculously high federal MW mandate and/or “safety net” programs.

 

[OlNate]

The American dream is not to become uber wealthy, but rather to become (and remain) middle class by working to earn enough to save for a comfortable retirement and perhaps help get your kids some secondary education.

I am (now) self-employed and know quite a few other folks who are as well. How much the CEO of Walmart makes or how much the uber rich can influence politicians has little to do with the ability of someone to earn a decent lvingi

The American Dream is defined as follows:

the ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved.

Are you going to suggest this dream has been realized? I'm hoping you won't, because while I could bury this discussion under a mountain of statistics, I'd rather not have to, because I'm talking to people who are honest and realistic.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The American Dream is defined as follows:



Are you going to suggest this dream has been realized? I'm hoping you won't, because while I could bury this discussion under a mountain of statistics, I'd rather not have to, because I'm talking to people who are honest and realistic.

Your supplied definition lacked any distinction between one’s highest reasonable aspirations and outright delusions.

What Is the American Dream?

The American Dream is the belief that anyone can attain their own version of success in a society where upward mobility is possible for everyone.

www.investopedia.com

 

[OlNate]

Your supplied definition lacked any distinction between one’s highest reasonable aspirations and outright delusions.

What Is the American Dream?

The American Dream is the belief that anyone can attain their own version of success in a society where upward mobility is possible for everyone.

www.investopedia.com

It doesn't matter. I could pick any number of directions to take this conversation, but I'll take the easiest path because I'm not feeling particularly argumentative today, and I have shit to do.

The American Dream is based upon equal opportunity - that "anyone" can yadda yadda yadda. This concept is defeated as soon as your education system is considered, where someone born into poverty, living in a poor school district, will be go to a worse school than someone born into wealth, living in a wealthy school district. Education is paramount to success, especially today, and is a significant factor in class distinction. Ergo, equal opportunity does not exist in America, ergo the American Dream is just that...a dream.

 

[KLATTU]

The OP i based on lw myths perpetuated by Democrats ( The system is rigge.....vote for us and we' fix it
Not all the rich get richer. Plenty get poorer. People move out of those top brackets all the time.
Smart ones stay wealthy

Not all poor people stay poor. People constantly move up the income scales. Don't listen to Democrats. You can do it .
Democrats don't know anything about creating wealth. They only know how how to take it form those who do and giving it to those who don't.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The OP i based on lw myths perpetuated by Democrats ( The system is rigge.....vote for us and we' fix it
Not all the rich get richer. Plenty get poorer. People move out of those top brackets all the time.
Smart ones stay wealthy

Not all poor people stay poor. People constantly move up the income scales. Don't listen to Democrats. You can do it .

What you say (about climbing the ladder of success) does depend on how far the rungs are placed apart and how wide each step on that ladder is. Getting from being a Walmart greeter (or cart retrieval specialist) to membership in Walmart’s senior management staff is not very likely to happen.

 

[KLATTU]

What you say (about climbing the ladder of success) does depend on how far the rungs are placed apart and how wide each step on that ladder is. Getting from being a Walmart greeter (or cart retrieval specialist) to membership in Walmart’s senior management staff is not very likely to happen.

Sure it is. Happens all the time

 

[ttwtt78640]

Sure it is. Happens all the time

Nonsense, it happens very rarely - as proof, consider that there are about 2M Walmart employees and a mere handful of Walmart senior management staff positions. You seem to be equating being a remote possibility with being a probability.

 

[KLATTU]

Nonsense, it happens very rarely - as proof, consider that there are about 2M Walmart employees and a mere handful of Walmart senior management staff positions. You seem to be equating being a remote possibility with being a probability.

You win. Everybody is stuck . Nobody can move up. We need the Central planners to fix all that.

 

[ttwtt78640]

You win. Everybody is stuck . Nobody can move up. We need the Central planners to fix all that.

Nope, but one should realize that aspiring to positions other than in Fortune 500 corporate senior management might be a better (more realistic?) goal.

 

[Luckyone]

Yes, but all your wealth envy is moot. Thats how this country works. If youre really unhappy, why not go somewhere else? Whats the point in complaining all the time when there are better options you can choose?

I am unhappy and it is my right to complain. You don't seem to have any problems in giving more to the rich than they deserve. I liked it better when it was more fair for everyone here, in the 80's

 

[Luckyone]

From the "Seven Deadly Sins".

Envy, like greed and lust, is characterized by an insatiable desire. It can be described as a sad or resentful covetousness towards the traits or possessions of someone else. It arises from vainglory, and severs a man from his neighbor.

Your post reminds me of this meme

 

[Tim the plumber]

You could say the same thing for income but yet we have brackets for that

The thing with income, the difference between wealth and income, is that we all need an amount of money just to live on. For most of us money in moey out. It is wealth that is just for the rich.

 

[ttwtt78640]

No problem with all wealth being taxed equally. It is automatically progressive.

Not without a standard deduction and only taxing amounts over that.

 

[jonny5]

It doesn't matter. I could pick any number of directions to take this conversation, but I'll take the easiest path because I'm not feeling particularly argumentative today, and I have shit to do.

The American Dream is based upon equal opportunity - that "anyone" can yadda yadda yadda. This concept is defeated as soon as your education system is considered, where someone born into poverty, living in a poor school district, will be go to a worse school than someone born into wealth, living in a wealthy school district. Education is paramount to success, especially today, and is a significant factor in class distinction. Ergo, equal opportunity does not exist in America, ergo the American Dream is just that...a dream.

Yet they do achieve the 'dream' even under those circumstances. The opportunity is there even if the circumstances of how you seize it may be different. Look at Lincoln. Born in poverty, died after achieving a position only a 100 people may ever achieve. And the opportunity is even more achievable now due to capitalism.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Not without a standard deduction and only taxing amounts over that.

The thing with income, the difference between wealth and income, is that we all need an amount of money just to live on. For most of us money in moey out. It is wealth that is just for the rich.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The thing with income, the difference between wealth and income, is that we all need an amount of money just to live on. For most of us money in moey out. It is wealth that is just for the rich.

Nonsense. Even the poor have some personal assets (aka wealth). The poor, in many cases, lack enough ‘excess’ income to pay even a 10% tax on the value of their (meager) assets without being forced to sell some of those assets simply to pay the annual tax on them.

 

[Metric Mouse]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

The 60s? You mean when America was literally divided by race and African Americans were barred from opportunity to success? Life was BETTER then? Maybe for you, and people like you.

Or the 70s, when Joe Biden was arguing against desegregating schools, again to keep people of color from having opportunities to succeed. That was better? Really?

Beavercleaverville only worked for some people. The fact that you miss those times and don't look back on them in shame says plenty.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Nonsense. Even the poor have some personal assets (aka wealth). The poor, in many cases, lack enough ‘excess’ income to pay even a 10% tax on the value of their (meager) assets without being forced to sell some of those assets simply to pay the annual tax on them.

If you earn $8,000 a year you will have very little assets normally. Your tax bill will be negligable.

Obviously there are billionairs who earn nothing.

Well, lets tax them. We are all paying for them to keep their wealth. They use clever accounting to hide their income. Tax the wealth it is far harder to evade the tax on wealth than it is on income.

 

[Luckyone]

The 60s? You mean when America was literally divided by race and African Americans were barred from opportunity to success? Life was BETTER then? Maybe for you, and people like you.

Or the 70s, when Joe Biden was arguing against desegregating schools, again to keep people of color from having opportunities to succeed. That was better? Really?

Beavercleaverville only worked for some people. The fact that you miss those times and don't look back on them in shame says plenty.

I am talking about income inequality between the rich, middle class, and poor, If you look at the OP, it is all about and only about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and the economic injustices that come from that. There was nothing in the OP about the racial injustices seen then and now. In fact, if we were to compare those, I can say with confidence that economic inequality has gotten much worse now than racial justice has gotten better. That means that overall, things were better then than they are now.

The rich have improved their income by 937% over the middle and poor class and our racial injustice is no better than perhaps 20-30%

 

[ludin]

It doesn't matter. I could pick any number of directions to take this conversation, but I'll take the easiest path because I'm not feeling particularly argumentative today, and I have shit to do.

The American Dream is based upon equal opportunity - that "anyone" can yadda yadda yadda. This concept is defeated as soon as your education system is considered, where someone born into poverty, living in a poor school district, will be go to a worse school than someone born into wealth, living in a wealthy school district. Education is paramount to success, especially today, and is a significant factor in class distinction. Ergo, equal opportunity does not exist in America, ergo the American Dream is just that...a dream.

then why do democrats oppose school choice for those kids so they can get a better education?

actually it does exists. your life is what you make of it. some people have challenges more than others some don't.

fact is the kid attending the poor school has just as much opportunity as someone else to become a doctor or lawyer or anything they want.

they might have to work harder but the opportunity is still there.

 

[ludin]

If you earn $8,000 a year you will have very little assets normally. Your tax bill will be negligable.

Obviously there are billionairs who earn nothing.

Well, lets tax them. We are all paying for them to keep their wealth. They use clever accounting to hide their income. Tax the wealth it is far harder to evade the tax on wealth than it is on income.

it is not possible to tax wealth. in fact it is impossible which is why no one does it.

 

[ludin]

I am unhappy and it is my right to complain. You don't seem to have any problems in giving more to the rich than they deserve. I liked it better when it was more fair for everyone here, in the 80's

blame the constant lowering of interest rates.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I am tired of the rich getting richer and the rest of us having to work harder to just keep ourselves above water. I am tired of the unfairness of our capitalistic society that allows injustice to occur based exclusively on the power that money brings. I am tired of the few ruling our lives based on their needs and not on the needs of the entire nation.

I remember when things were different here in the USA and all of us, as a nation, worked together to make things better for all, and not just for the benefit of those lucky or talented few. A time all of us could aspire to the "American Dream" and no one was prevented from achieving it if they worked for it. A time where everyone could aspire to own a company and not just work for an all-encompassing big company like Apple, Amazon, Google, or At&T and be tied to them in an inescapable way. A time where money was a secondary issue and not the #1 objective in life.

I miss the time where respect, honor, justice, morals, ethics and humanity meant something and not be something to be ridiculed and thrown away as a weakness and not a strength.

If thinking this way makes me a socialist, then so be it. Nonetheless, in the years when I was young (the 60's through the 80's), this was what all Americans aspired to achieve and none were called socialists then. That was a time when each and every person regardless of economic capability was important. A time we all were Americans, unlike now where those that think like that are called socialists and enemies.

You have every chance in America to own your own business, company, home whatever you are clever enough and hard working enough to achieve. Not everyone suceeds because some are not cut out for it, some don't have the ability, the know how or the gumption. The wealthy get wealthy because they invest in making money, they start businesses and are lucky enough to succeed. What reason's are you denied your dream?

 

[Integrityrespec]

it is not possible to tax wealth. in fact it is impossible which is why no one does it.

There is no clever accounting, there are tax laws. If you want to complain because someone protects their income then write you Congress persons and complain about the laws they wrote. Ask Nancy Pelosi how much she paid in tax last year on her $100 million?

Nancy Pelosi Net Worth

What is Nancy Pelosi's net worth?

www.celebritynetworth.com