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Hurricane Threads

scottyz said:

BUSH cut funding? Last time I read the constitution, Congress had the power of the purse. If you're mad at congress, be mad at congress. Don't take it out on the president.

And what do you mean, there is no other side? Everyone NOT from LA wanted the funds cut. Know why? It's called pork barrel politics. You try convincing the senators from North Dakota that their money should pay for LA's flood protection. What ever happened to state's rights and responsibilities? Since when did it become a FEDERAL responsibility to micromanage the lives of people living in every state. Shouldn't LA have handled this? If they didn't have the money, raise taxes to pay for it. It's what NYC did after 9/11 to pay for the rebuilding, so why couldn't LA have done it before the hurricane?


:rofl You have so little to back yourself up that you're dragging Hillary and Kerry into this. Pathetic. In case you're not aware Bush doens't listen to either of them and the have their own states to run.

In case you're not aware, the point is that nobody was disagreeing with Congress (not Bush), when Congress decided to cut the funds. The bill passed with a majority in both houses, with backing from everyone from Bush to the NYT. So to cry foul only on bush is simple partisan rhetoric.

LA national guard REQUESTED the return of a equipment a month prior.
http://abc26.trb.com/news/natguard08012005,0,4504131.story

Did you READ YOUR OWN ARTICLE??

"The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," said Lt. Colonel Pete Schneider with the LA National Guard.

Col. Schneider says the state has enough equipment to get by, and if Louisiana were to get hit by a major hurricane, the neighboring states of Mississippi, Alabama and Florida have all agreed to help.

The Col. said "We need that back," then two seconds later, said that EVEN IF a major hurricane hit, LA could get by. So what's the problem?

You should take your own advice.

Have any responses to anything else I posted? Any explanations as to why the mayor and governor did NOTHING? Any responses as to the proof that the only reason LA was evacuated when it was was because of BUSH, saving thousands of lives? Any response to the fact that the people complaining abuot the job not being done are the very people failing to do the job?

Or are you just picking and choosing?
 
Re: What Bush Can Do For New Orleans

Youve Got To Be Kidding! said:
Its simple. The thieves in office (note my lack of swearing and name calling) are using your tax dollars to trade aid for coorporate gain.

Well, that is one step better than Mayor Negin's profanity-laced tirade on WWL radio.
 
Re: What Bush Can Do For New Orleans

Youve Got To Be Kidding! said:
Its simple. The thieves in office (note my lack of swearing and name calling) are using your tax dollars to trade aid for coorporate gain.

Errrrr, I think by saying thieves you are name calling.:doh
 
Re: What Bush Can Do For New Orleans

ANAV said:
Errrrr, I think by saying thieves you are name calling.:doh

Notice how they have completely side stepped the facts about timing brought out in the first part of my ongoing series, Anatomy of a Catestrophic Hurricane?
 
From my weblog: www.xanga.com/ludahai

Anatomy of a Catastrophic Hurricane – Part 2

Note: All times are U.S.

Monday, August 29th – K - Day

Katrina came ashore at about 5:30am CDT just to the Southeast of New Orleans, Louisiana. New Orleans was initially believed to have been spared the worst of the storm because of a last minute swerve the storm made that brought the center of the storm to the EAST of the city, resulting in lower winds and a lower storm surge.

CBS reported that the President issued an emergency declaration BEFORE the storm, something quite rare and that there were relief supplies and thousands of national guard troops at the ready before the storm even hit.

In the early afternoon, National Geographic was reporting that New Orleans escaped the worst, saying that Katrina had pulled its punches.

President Bush, meanwhile, was on top of things. He received a briefing prior to flying to Arizona, where, contrary to being on vacation as was reported, was participating in a Medicare Round Table. He also gave a statement on what was already being prepared to help the victims of the hurricane. Pretty busy guy for someone supposedly on vacation.

Contrary to what critics said later, there WERE National Guard troops available. Louisiana reportedly had about 3500 troops ready to go and another 3000 that could have been tapped into. WHERE were they when New Orleans was running amok? Governor Blanco has a lot to answer to on that point.

As night fell, after being battered by the hurricane all day long, the media was still reporting that New Orleans had been spared the full fury of Katrina. The city was damaged by the hurricane, but not devastated. For those criticizing that the federal government didn’t act quickly enough, the damage on Monday didn’t necessitate the massive reaction that would later events dictated were necessary.

Based on what was known as the sun went down on Monday, no massive federal evacuation effort was going to be necessary. It appeared that the following morning, most New Orleans residents would be able to return to their homes and take stock of the situation. NO ONE was predicting what was to come. There was NO reason at that point for President Bush to interrupt his schedule in the Southwest, NO reason for active duty military personnel to be involved, and should Governor Blanco and Mayor Nevin done their jobs, no significant National Guard presence (outside of that of their own state) would have been necessary. Unfortunately, the situation spiraled out of control overnight.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/27/national/main798725.shtml

(CBS/AP) Hurricane Katrina came ashore just east of Grand Isle, Louisiana, at 6:30 a.m. ET. About a hundred miles to the north, New Orleans is said to be 80 percent evacuated, with the potential for historic damage. Evacuations were also ordered in Alabama and Mississippi.

The storm might spare New Orleans a direct hit, while posing a greater danger to the coastal Mississippi cities of Gulfport and Biloxi.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/29/national/main799208.shtml

President Bush issued rare "advance" emergency declarations for Louisiana and neighboring states, reports CBS News White House Correspondent Peter Maer, and federal agencies were moving relief supplies to areas closer to the storm zone. Thousands of national guard troops are at a staging center in Memphis. A nuclear power plant near New Orleans shut down and the government was monitoring two other facilities.

"This is very serious, of the highest nature," said Nagin. "This is a once-in-a-lifetime event."

Conceding that as many as 100,000 inner-city residents didn't have the means to leave and an untold number of tourists were stranded by the closing of the airport, the city arranged buses to take people to 10 last-resort shelters, including the Superdome.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0829_050829_hurricane.html

New Orleans avoided a worst-case pounding from Hurricane Katrina, but not by much.

It appeared Sunday night that the low-lying city would take a direct hit from a Category Five hurricane. As late as 11 p.m. Sunday, the hurricane had winds of 160 miles (260 kilometers) an hour.

But just before landfall Katrina's strongest winds died down slightly, said Randy McKee, the meteorologist in charge of the U.S. National Weather Service's office in Mobile, Alabama.

As the hurricane neared Grand Isle, Louisiana, and the mouth of the Mississippi River, a new eye wall started forming around the storm's existing eye.

This event, known as an eye-wall replacement cycle, occurs in extremely powerful hurricanes. It causes the storm's strongest winds to weaken temporarily as the new eye forms and the old eye disintegrates.

"It looks like it was going through one of those cycles right before landfall, taking it down from a Category Five to a Category Four," McKee said.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050829-2.html

Statement on Federal Disaster Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared a major disaster exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement State and local recovery efforts in the area struck by Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 29, 2005, and continuing.

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3778804

(El Mirage, Ariz.-AP) August 29, 2005 - President Bush says Americans are praying for residents of the Gulf Coast being "hit and hit hard" by Hurricane Katrina.

He's urging those in the path of the storm to pay close attention to what authorities tell them, and he's promising the federal government will be ready with help once the storm passes.

Bush spoke during a Medicare roundtable near Phoenix, the first of two he's holding Monday in Arizona and California.

To Gulf Coast residents, Bush said, "Take precautions, because this is a dangerous storm."

Aides say Bush was briefed on Katrina before he left his Texas ranch, and got updates on Air Force One.

Bush is said to be considering a release of oil from the nation's petroleum reserve to help offset refinery capacity shut down by the storm.

http://www.wlox.com/Global/story.asp?S=3778466

(Washington-AP) August 29, 2005 - Though thousands of National Guard personnel from Louisiana and Mississippi are serving in Iraq, officials say more than enough personnel are available for disaster duty today as Hurricane Katrina slammed ashore.

Some 35-hundred Army National Guardsmen from Louisiana were deployed to help hurricane victims and another three thousand are on standby.

About three thousand members of Louisiana's 256th Combat Brigade already are in Iraq. Six members were killed by a bomb on January 6th and another two died in a blast four days later.

In Mississippi, the Guard had 853 troops on hurricane duty, preparing to remove debris and provide security. Officials say that's a small slice of the more than seven thousand available National Guard troops in the state's ground and air components.

Some 780 Guard members from Florida are helping residents recover from the hurricane and 130 Guard members are on duty in Alabama.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20050829-1422-hurricanekatrina.html

Katrina weakened overnight to a Category 4 storm and made a slight turn to the right before coming ashore at 6:10 a.m. CDT near the Louisiana bayou town of Buras. The storm passed just to the east of New Orleans as it moved inland, sparing this vulnerable below-sea-level city its full fury and the apocalyptic damage that forecasters had feared.

But there was plenty of destruction in New Orleans, and a clearer picture of the damage emerged after the storm had passed: Mangled street signs, crumbled brick walls in the French Quarter, fallen trees on streetcar tracks, highrises with almost all of their windows blown out. White curtains that were sucked out of the shattered windows of a hotel became tangled in treetops.

http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=f00acd41-5b2b-46fd-a722-a6d76ba1b3ad

For New Orleans - a dangerously vulnerable city because it sits mostly below sea level in a bowl-shaped depression - it was not the apocalyptic storm forecasters had feared.
 
Anatomy of a Catastrophic Hurricane - Part 2 B

From my weblog: www.xanga.com/ludahai

Anatomy of a Catastrophic Hurricane – Part 2

Note: All times are U.S.

Tuesday, August 30th – K-Day Plus One

When New Orleans residents woke up on Tuesday morning, they faced an even more dangerous threat than the hurricane. Swollen waters of the lake to the north of the city had burst through the levies in two places, pouring water into the city. What looked like a manageable situation when people went to bed on Monday evening, was becoming increasingly untenable and desperate by dawn on Tuesday.

However, at this point, local authorities still believed that residents would eventually be able to return to their homes. No one was discussing long-term evacuation and dislocation, at least not until mid-morning.

By lunchtime, President Bush had already decided to end his “vacation” (President Bush apparently vacations by having Medicare Roundtables and giving speeches to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II) by lunchtime and headed immediately back to Washington to take charge of this crisis, taking a swing to look at the storm ravaged region while en route.

In the afternoon, the first reports of looting came in. Most people wouldn’t have a beef with those trying to take food, water and other necessities to survive. However, some people were taking far more than that, including guns that were used over the following two days to hold the city virtually at gunpoint. Where were the Louisiana National Guardsmen? Governor Blanco instead went on and blamed the federal government for not helping. However, federal troops have no arrest powers in a local jurisdiction. That would be the primary responsibility of the Louisiana National Guard, where were they?

It also wasn’t until late afternoon that the order to evacuate the city came in. Looting was continuing almost unabated. The city was beginning to sink into violence, and the Louisiana National Guard was NOT on the streets enforcing order as they should have been.

The navy announced that evening that it was sending two relief ships to the area. This is more evidence that the national government and the military were responding to the crisis in a timely fashion. Furthermore, the Coast Guard had been in since Monday saving lives. The military WAS there and WAS doing its job, SAVING LIVES!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=3782639&nav=5D7lduXr

In New Orleans, residents who had ridden out the brunt of Katrina faced a second more insidious threat as two levee breaches sent water from Lake Pontchartrain coursing through city streets Tuesday.

http://www.meetingnews.com/meetingnews/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001050977

There is no access to the city as of late morning local time, and evacuees are barred from returning until authorities deem it safe, according to a report from the New Orleans Metropolitan Convention and Visitors Bureau.

http://www.local6.com/weather/4913354/detail.html

10:30 a.m.: Martial Law Declared
New Orleans is under martial law, according to state officials. The declaration is imposed to restore order in times of war and emergency. It could be weeks before displaced residents are allowed to return. -- WDSU chief meteorologist Dan Milham

11:04 a.m.: Looting Out Of Control
New Orleans police say looting is out of control in many parts of the city. Officials are focusing on the rescue effort, but a crackdown on looting is expected after the martial law declaration. -- WDSU anchor Kriss Fairbairn

11:50 a.m.: President Bush Cutting Vacation Short
President George W. Bush is cutting his vacation short and returning to Washington to monitor recovery efforts. -- WDSU.com Web Staff

12:15 p.m.: Looting Continues Throughout City
At a Walgreen's drug store in the French Quarter this morning, people were running out with grocery baskets and coolers full of soft drinks, chips and diapers. When police finally showed up, a young boy stood at the door and shouted a warning, and the crowd scattered.

A tourist from Philadelphia compared the scene to "downtown Baghdad."

Nearby, looters ripped open the steel gates from the front of stores on Canal Street. They filled industrial-sized garbage cans with clothing and jewelry and floated them down the street on bits of plywood and insulation. -- Associated Press

2:20 p.m.: Coast Guard Rescues People From Rooftops
Hundreds of people remain stranded on rooftops in New Orleans as rescuers pick up as many Hurricane Katrina survivors as they can. A Coast Guard helicopter has been plucking people one by one from the tops of homes. Babies and senior citizens are among the evacuees being lifted in a basket to the chopper overhead. Most escaped with only the clothes they were wearing, and some were without shoes. About 20 boats were in that area to move evacuees to safety.

Lifelong New Orleans resident Quentina Green was rescued by boat with her husband and four children. She said they didn't leave their home before the storm hit because the family didn't have the money to evacuate. Her husband, Thomas Green, said they lost everything. Now, he says, they'll "start from scratch, start all over, that's all we can do." -- Associated Press

3:25 p.m.: New Orleans Residents Told To Evacuate
The governor of Louisiana says the thousands of New Orleans residents who are huddled in the Superdome and other rescue centers will have to be evacuated. -- Associated Press

4:35 p.m.: Looting, Fires Reported
Police said people were setting fires in downtown New Orleans and remarked that looting was still out of control in some areas. Armed officers are working hard to stop looters and are warning that such activity will be punished. Two -- and possibly more -- looting arrests were made Tuesday. Many people were still wandering the streets. -- WDSU.com Web Staff

7:54 p.m.: Navy Sends Relief Via Ships
The Navy is sending four ships to the Gulf Coast with water and other supplies for those hit by Hurricane Katrina, but officials are urging service members not to try to return to their military bases in New Orleans. Navy bases in Gulfport, Mississippi, and New Orleans were evacuated and suffered heavy flooding and wind damage. Officials are gearing up to fly over the bases to get a detailed assessment of the damage.

Meanwhile, Rear Admiral George Mayer, commander of Navy Region South, issued a statement extending the evacuation for Naval Air Station New Orleans and the naval support base there, saying only personnel specifically contacted for the recovery effort should go back to the city.

The two bases were flooded, with as much as 3 feet of water, and there was no power or utilities. -- Associated Press

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.as...01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-214322-3&sec=Worldupdates

In many areas, rescuers struggled to reach potential victims because of high water or mountains of debris. In New Orleans, police said many people escaped rising water by climbing into their attics or up on their roofs.

Police said they were using boats to go into flood stricken areas to get those trapped in their homes. Some were plucked from roofs by helicopter.

People used axes and in at least one case a shot gun to blast holes in roofs so they could escape their attics. Many who had not yet been rescued could be heard screaming for help, they said.


(Part two to be continued)
 
Is it possible to withhold criticism of the Administration until AFTER we get through this crisis?
 
Re: Anatomy of a Catastrophic Hurricane - Part 2 B

ludahai said:
From my weblog: www.xanga.com/ludahai

Anatomy of a Catastrophic Hurricane – Part 2

Note: All times are U.S.

Tuesday, August 30th – K-Day Plus One

When New Orleans residents woke up on Tuesday morning, they faced an even more dangerous threat than the hurricane. Swollen waters of the lake to the north of the city had burst through the levies in two places, pouring water into the city. What looked like a manageable situation when people went to bed on Monday evening, was becoming increasingly untenable and desperate by dawn on Tuesday.

However, at this point, local authorities still believed that residents would eventually be able to return to their homes. No one was discussing long-term evacuation and dislocation, at least not until mid-morning.

By lunchtime, President Bush had already decided to end his “vacation” (President Bush apparently vacations by having Medicare Roundtables and giving speeches to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II) by lunchtime and headed immediately back to Washington to take charge of this crisis, taking a swing to look at the storm ravaged region while en route.

In the afternoon, the first reports of looting came in. Most people wouldn’t have a beef with those trying to take food, water and other necessities to survive. However, some people were taking far more than that, including guns that were used over the following two days to hold the city virtually at gunpoint. Where were the Louisiana National Guardsmen? Governor Blanco instead went on and blamed the federal government for not helping. However, federal troops have no arrest powers in a local jurisdiction. That would be the primary responsibility of the Louisiana National Guard, where were they?

It also wasn’t until late afternoon that the order to evacuate the city came in. Looting was continuing almost unabated. The city was beginning to sink into violence, and the Louisiana National Guard was NOT on the streets enforcing order as they should have been.

The navy announced that evening that it was sending two relief ships to the area. This is more evidence that the national government and the military were responding to the crisis in a timely fashion. Furthermore, the Coast Guard had been in since Monday saving lives. The military WAS there and WAS doing its job, SAVING LIVES!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=3782639&nav=5D7lduXr



http://www.meetingnews.com/meetingnews/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001050977



http://www.local6.com/weather/4913354/detail.html



http://thestar.com.my/news/story.as...01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-214322-3&sec=Worldupdates




(Part two to be continued)


On Tuesday, President Bush was in San Diego playing a guitar at a rally.

Like Nero playing a violin as Rome Burned.

On Sunday, the governer of Lousianna requested more national guard troops, the request was not even approved in Washington until Thursday.

You guys can attempt to spin this absolute disgrace all you want, but your not fooling anyone.
 
I am going to post this article in its entirety. I think it pretty much sums up their performance:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054581

'My Pet Goat' -- The Sequel
This time, during a catastrophe, the president did not merely dither for seven minutes, but for three days, and his top advisors followed suit. While the media has done a good job in portraying the overall failure of leadership in this weeks hurricane's disaster, it has not focused enough on this deadly dereliction of duty.

By Greg Mitchell

(September 03, 2005) -- While a rising chorus in the press has taken the White House, FEMA and the Pentagon to task for performing miserably in their response to the human disaster on the Gulf Coast, few have focused on the most telling aspect of the entire failure. It’s not just incompetence. It’s a shameful lack of concern: The 9/11 “My Pet Goat” dithering on an administration-wide scale.

Simply stated, the president and his top advisers chose vacation over action.

While the media has done a good job in portraying the overall deadly failure of leadership, it has not focused enough on this deadly dereliction of duty.

President Bush, in his weekly radio address on Saturday, said: “In America, we do not abandon our fellow citizens in their hour of need.” But Bush, and his top aides, quite frankly, did just that.

I was reminded of this today, seeing pictures of Vice President Dick Cheney finally showing up at the White House after riding out the storm-of-the-century in Wyoming. Perhaps he brought back with him a couple dozen trout to throw on the grill for the White House staffers.

His absence, and the president’s performance during it, can only add to the rumors that Bush is clueless without the Big Guy at his side.

This follows Bush himself remaining on vacation for more than two days after the storm hit, despite acknowledging this was the worst disaster in the nation’s history. He did take a trip during those days, not back to Washington but out to San Diego to deliver a political speech comparing his Iraq war to World War II. It got little play because nearly everyone else in the country, beyond his inner circle, was focused on New Orleans instead.

What that trip did produce was a picture of Bush laughing with a country singer and strumming a guitar. But at least the president did start heading home late Wednesday. As he did, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice was still enjoying her vacation in New York.

In fact, that night she enjoyed a few good yucks while attending the goofy Broadway play “Spamalot.” Ironically, the Bush team's performance this week did indeed seem like something out of a Monty Python skit. Each, in his or her own way, took a bunch of "silly walks."

Condi also played tennis with Monica Seles and on Thursday went on a shoe-shopping spree on Fifth Avenue until a fellow customer yelled at her for not doing her job and bloggers exposed all of this. Then she hurriedly headed back to Washington. Whoops, we discovered she was overdue in getting a grip on offers to help that were pouring in from overseas governments and organizations.

Paging Andrew Card: Turns out he was Bush's Maine man.

And what of FEMA chief Michael Brown? He was so out-of-it that he didn’t even know about 10,000 evacuees living and dying at the Convention Center, even after they had received wide TV coverage for a solid day.

The next day, the president greeted him with, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." A medal is surely on the way.

At a press conference on Thursday, the fourth day of the disaster, with newspapers and TV reporting tens of thousands stranded at hospitals, homes and a highway overpass, Homeland Security chief Michael Cherotff was asked by a reporter if he thought only hundreds or maybe many more needed rescued. He replied:

“I'd be guessing. I mean, a thousand seems like a very large number, but we have already rescued several thousand. Hopefully, most people have gotten themselves onto roofs and have been picked up. But, as I said, rather than give you a guesstimate, I can tell you that as long as there is someone on a roof waving a flag, we're going to be sending a helicopter out there to get them.”

At the same press briefing, Cherotff was asked if he thought there were enough soldiers on the ground to control the situation. His answer: “I'm satisfied that we have not only more than enough forces there and on the way. And frankly, what we're doing is we are putting probably more than we need in order to send an unambiguous message that we will not tolerate lawlessness or violence or interference with the evacuation.”

While the 9/11 “My Pet Goat” episode was certainly illuminating, it’s not certain what might have worked out better that day had the president dropped the book and taken action. But his failure to grab the reins in the hurricane catastrophe for three days this week probably doomed hundreds, or more, to death.

This is not mere incompetence, but dereliction of duty. The press should call it by its proper name.
 
Billo_Really said:
Is it possible to withhold criticism of the Administration until AFTER we get through this crisis?
We've had a few words before, but thank you for saying that. We'll assign blame and tar and feather someone later, but people are suffering now, my people, helping them and fixing N.O. are all that is important right now.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I am going to post this article in its entirety. I think it pretty much sums up their performance:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054581

'My Pet Goat' -- The Sequel
This time, during a catastrophe, the president did not merely dither for seven minutes, but for three days, and his top advisors followed suit. While the media has done a good job in portraying the overall failure of leadership in this weeks hurricane's disaster, it has not focused enough on this deadly dereliction of duty.

By Greg Mitchell

(September 03, 2005) -- While a rising chorus in the press has taken the White House, FEMA and the Pentagon to task for performing miserably in their response to the human disaster on the Gulf Coast, few have focused on the most telling aspect of the entire failure. It’s not just incompetence. It’s a shameful lack of concern: The 9/11 “My Pet Goat” dithering on an administration-wide scale.

Simply stated, the president and his top advisers chose vacation over action.

While the media has done a good job in portraying the overall deadly failure of leadership, it has not focused enough on this deadly dereliction of duty.

President Bush, in his weekly radio address on Saturday, said: “In America, we do not abandon our fellow citizens in their hour of need.” But Bush, and his top aides, quite frankly, did just that.

I was reminded of this today, seeing pictures of Vice President Dick Cheney finally showing up at the White House after riding out the storm-of-the-century in Wyoming. Perhaps he brought back with him a couple dozen trout to throw on the grill for the White House staffers.

His absence, and the president’s performance during it, can only add to the rumors that Bush is clueless without the Big Guy at his side.

This follows Bush himself remaining on vacation for more than two days after the storm hit, despite acknowledging this was the worst disaster in the nation’s history. He did take a trip during those days, not back to Washington but out to San Diego to deliver a political speech comparing his Iraq war to World War II. It got little play because nearly everyone else in the country, beyond his inner circle, was focused on New Orleans instead.

What that trip did produce was a picture of Bush laughing with a country singer and strumming a guitar. But at least the president did start heading home late Wednesday. As he did, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice was still enjoying her vacation in New York.

In fact, that night she enjoyed a few good yucks while attending the goofy Broadway play “Spamalot.” Ironically, the Bush team's performance this week did indeed seem like something out of a Monty Python skit. Each, in his or her own way, took a bunch of "silly walks."

Condi also played tennis with Monica Seles and on Thursday went on a shoe-shopping spree on Fifth Avenue until a fellow customer yelled at her for not doing her job and bloggers exposed all of this. Then she hurriedly headed back to Washington. Whoops, we discovered she was overdue in getting a grip on offers to help that were pouring in from overseas governments and organizations.

Paging Andrew Card: Turns out he was Bush's Maine man.

And what of FEMA chief Michael Brown? He was so out-of-it that he didn’t even know about 10,000 evacuees living and dying at the Convention Center, even after they had received wide TV coverage for a solid day.

The next day, the president greeted him with, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." A medal is surely on the way.

At a press conference on Thursday, the fourth day of the disaster, with newspapers and TV reporting tens of thousands stranded at hospitals, homes and a highway overpass, Homeland Security chief Michael Cherotff was asked by a reporter if he thought only hundreds or maybe many more needed rescued. He replied:

“I'd be guessing. I mean, a thousand seems like a very large number, but we have already rescued several thousand. Hopefully, most people have gotten themselves onto roofs and have been picked up. But, as I said, rather than give you a guesstimate, I can tell you that as long as there is someone on a roof waving a flag, we're going to be sending a helicopter out there to get them.”

At the same press briefing, Cherotff was asked if he thought there were enough soldiers on the ground to control the situation. His answer: “I'm satisfied that we have not only more than enough forces there and on the way. And frankly, what we're doing is we are putting probably more than we need in order to send an unambiguous message that we will not tolerate lawlessness or violence or interference with the evacuation.”

While the 9/11 “My Pet Goat” episode was certainly illuminating, it’s not certain what might have worked out better that day had the president dropped the book and taken action. But his failure to grab the reins in the hurricane catastrophe for three days this week probably doomed hundreds, or more, to death.

This is not mere incompetence, but dereliction of duty. The press should call it by its proper name.

Another from MSNBC:

An emerging power struggle
Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration had sought control over National Guard units, normally under control of the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request, noting that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. State authorities suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who is an adviser and does not have the authority to speak publicly.

Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state's victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort.

Bush, who has been criticized, even by supporters, for the delayed response to the disaster, used his weekly radio address to put responsibility for the failure on lower levels of government. The magnitude of the crisis "has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities," he said. "The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans. And that is unacceptable."

In a Washington briefing, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said one reason federal assets were not used more quickly was "because our constitutional system really places the primary authority in each state with the governor."

And FEMA Director Michael D. Brown, a frequent target of New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin's wrath, said Saturday that "the mayor can order an evacuation and try to evacuate the city, but if the mayor does not have the resources to get the poor, elderly, the disabled, those who cannot, out, or if he does not even have police capacity to enforce the mandatory evacuation, to make people leave, then you end up with the kind of situation we have right now in New Orleans."
 
RightatNYU said:
BUSH cut funding? Last time I read the constitution, Congress had the power of the purse. If you're mad at congress, be mad at congress. Don't take it out on the president.
So Republican controlled congress wrote up the bill that fit with Bush's agenda and he signed it. What's your point? Why didn't they or Bush object?
And what do you mean, there is no other side? Everyone NOT from LA wanted the funds cut. Know why? It's called pork barrel politics. You try convincing the senators from North Dakota that their money should pay for LA's flood protection. What ever happened to state's rights and responsibilities? Since when did it become a FEDERAL responsibility to micromanage the lives of people living in every state. Shouldn't LA have handled this? If they didn't have the money, raise taxes to pay for it. It's what NYC did after 9/11 to pay for the rebuilding, so why couldn't LA have done it before the hurricane?
The army corp of engineers wanted the funds. That should be all that matters. The Feds knew it there was a hurricane coming and they knew the N.O. national guard was short on men and equipment. They knew about all of the oil facilities in the area and that a shortage of oil would create a national crisis.

Bush also dumped his fathers "no net loss" weltlands protection program which helped provide a buffer from hurricanes.



In case you're not aware, the point is that nobody was disagreeing with Congress (not Bush), when Congress decided to cut the funds. The bill passed with a majority in both houses, with backing from everyone from Bush to the NYT. So to cry foul only on bush is simple partisan rhetoric.
Who has the majority of Congress? Who signed these things? Not Republicans? Not Bush? Were they not basing their actions on Bush's own budget plan?

Did you READ YOUR OWN ARTICLE??



The Col. said "We need that back," then two seconds later, said that EVEN IF a major hurricane hit, LA could get by. So what's the problem?
It doens't change the fact they requested the return of equipment.


Have any responses to anything else I posted? Any explanations as to why the mayor and governor did NOTHING? Any responses as to the proof that the only reason LA was evacuated when it was was because of BUSH, saving thousands of lives? Any response to the fact that the people complaining abuot the job not being done are the very people failing to do the job?

Or are you just picking and choosing?
Everyone from down there all the way to the top has failed. They would have had more national guard if Washington had put done the paper work to allow the transfer of national guard from Mississippi faster. It doesn't change the fact that Bush's budget included cutting their funding and that he opened the wetlands up to developers, something both Bush Sr. and Clinton knew was a bad idea.
 
Listened a splendid on-site interview this morning between a media vixen and a military helicopter pilot who has participated in hundreds of search and rescue missions in New Orleans. He was asked (disingenuously) why the rescue effort was taking so long and why people remain trapped in the city. His reply was illuminating and somewhat surprising...

According to the pilot, there were dozens of cases in which he and his crew located stranded people on rooftops in which they refused to be evacuated. Asked the why of this, he continued. There is no television or radio service in the city, no Internet connection, and basically no working phone system. According to the pilot, without these wide-based communication resources, many people have the notion that the damage they see from their rooftop is confined to their particular neighborhood. They seem to have no idea of the nature or geographical scope of the disaster and are unwilling to leave their residences due to a fear of looting and arson to their property. The pilot also intimated that perhaps subconsciously, some have concluded that if they depart they have nothing left to return to. They simply cannot let go.


 
Busta said:
Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, great minds discuss ideas.

Allot of people are discussing people (polotics, Pres. Bush...etc...), still others post allot of news (events), but does anyone have a good idea to post like....



....or will there continue to be little more than petty squabling?

Yes, there will continue to be petty squabbling.

Three weeks from now when there are still people in shelters you would not wish on your dog, they will blame a leader, and point to someone that had an idea, and then go back to placing blame.

It will be cheaper in the short term to repair those swamped residences than to move all of them to arable land. Once the water is pumped out the majority of the public housing project residents will be housed when the majority of the swamped homeowners will not. And people will rebuild along the Mississippi and Alabama coast as well, where nobody would even think of spending the money to build a category five barrier.

I would not be surprised to find out that there was a zoning law that forbid people from building a cheap house on stilts in the flood zones...

A National Park of New Orleans would be nice, the birds would like it, and the people would be safe on arable land in tornado alley.

Everything that is done to keep that bowl occupied will be a Band-Aid on a festering wound just waiting to be washed off in the next shower, maybe a generation from now if they are lucky.

Is it worth it to rebuild New Orleans and the rest of the coastal areas destroyed?

I once lived hundreds of miles from the coast on property that was paid for, away from the threats of hurricanes and earthquakes, I thought I was safe to tend my fruit trees and grape vines, when a card carrying member of the stinking filthy may they all be damned to rot in hell forever Democratic party used zoning laws to reward friends and punish enemies, and now I am a beach bum. Is it worth it to those that live near the coast in danger of hurricanes? Yes, I am sure the rest of the time the sound of the surf calms them so they do not take the law into their own hands and kill the people that need killing. Yes, the coast is calming, and mostly just looking at the surf can calm a person. It is worth it to rebuild the coastal areas.
 
scottyz said:
First off, you need to understand something. Just because someone asks for something, and their request is denied, if an event later occurs that makes it so that the original request would have been helpful, it doesn't mean that the original request should have been honored, in terms of game theory.

Example: Say I think the federal government needs to put 250 billion dollars into protecting California from earthquakes. This will never happen. But, in the event that an earthquake does happen, would it have helped? Yes. Does that mean that it should have been done? NO. Would I have the right to go around screaming about how the federal government let California down? Yes. Would it be unfair, disingenuous, and ill-spirited of me? Yes.

So Republican controlled congress wrote up the bill that fit with Bush's agenda and he signed it. What's your point? Why didn't they or Bush object?

Who has the majority of Congress? Who signed these things? Not Republicans? Not Bush? Were they not basing their actions on Bush's own budget plan?

Show me the vote that was split down along party lines, barely passed by the republicans, to cut levee funding. My point isn't that the republicans didn't control congress, it's that you can't blame them for everything that happens. There's a thing called majority rule.

The army corp of engineers wanted the funds. That should be all that matters. The Feds knew it there was a hurricane coming and they knew the N.O. national guard was short on men and equipment. They knew about all of the oil facilities in the area and that a shortage of oil would create a national crisis.

EVERYONE wants something. Know what the army corp of engineers is? A special interest group, just like the rest. Government cannot automatically ascede to every single request. And, as pointed out earlier in this thread, even if Bush had approved every penny, it would have made no difference. The timeframe for the construction of the new levees was so long that the hurricane would have happened the exact same way, except we'd have wasted 17 million dollars that NOBODY wanted to spend.


It doens't change the fact they requested the return of equipment.

In the most halfhearted way possible. Like I said, everyone wants something. And it doesnt change the fact that the person requesting it said that LA was fine even without it.

Everyone from down there all the way to the top has failed. They would have had more national guard if Washington had put done the paper work to allow the transfer of national guard from Mississippi faster. It doesn't change the fact that Bush's budget included cutting their funding and that he opened the wetlands up to developers, something both Bush Sr. and Clinton knew was a bad idea.

Bush allotted National Guard members DAYS before the hurricane hit, and offered money and support for days before the mayor accepted. Your blame is misdirected.
 
Just a tidbit... The Mayor of New Orleans could have ordered bus service to provide transport out of New Orleans days before Katrina hit. He, along with other Louisiana political officials ordered the evacuation and provided ZERO help for the city's poor or sick or elderly. Shame is on the government from President Bush down to the lowliest government official in Louisiana and New Orleans. It wasn't the Federal Government's idea to use the Superdome for shelter. There was an evacuation order.

Even with the evacuation orders in place, most of the residents that stayed behind did so voluntarily or didn't you see the cars floating around.

Let's rebuild a major city on the gulf below sea level and wait for the next hurricane just to see what happens. Democrats and Republicans just seem the same to me.
:duel :cool:
 
RightatNYU said:
First off, you need to understand something. Just because someone asks for something, and their request is denied, if an event later occurs that makes it so that the original request would have been helpful, it doesn't mean that the original request should have been honored, in terms of game theory.

Example: Say I think the federal government needs to put 250 billion dollars into protecting California from earthquakes. This will never happen. But, in the event that an earthquake does happen, would it have helped? Yes. Does that mean that it should have been done? NO. Would I have the right to go around screaming about how the federal government let California down? Yes. Would it be unfair, disingenuous, and ill-spirited of me? Yes.
They didn't ask for $250 billion, not even close. All they wanted was a itty bitty tiny fraction of the amount we've spent in Iraq.


Show me the vote that was split down along party lines, barely passed by the republicans, to cut levee funding. My point isn't that the republicans didn't control congress, it's that you can't blame them for everything that happens. There's a thing called majority rule.
In case you haven't noticed, Republicans ARE THE MAJORITY. If you split it down party lines the Dems are the minority so they have no voice unless some Republicans dissent. Republicans tend to vote as a block and I don't recall Bush vetoing anything at all.

EVERYONE wants something. Know what the army corp of engineers is? A special interest group, just like the rest. Government cannot automatically ascede to every single request. And, as pointed out earlier in this thread, even if Bush had approved every penny, it would have made no difference. The timeframe for the construction of the new levees was so long that the hurricane would have happened the exact same way, except we'd have wasted 17 million dollars that NOBODY wanted to spend.
It's convenient to say that because we will never know now, will we? We do know that Bush disrupted studies into the subject though. We know Bush handed over the wetlands that Bush Sr. and Clinton had tried to protect. The wetlands provide a natural buffer against hurricanes for New Orleans. It was no secret.

Bush allotted National Guard members DAYS before the hurricane hit, and offered money and support for days before the mayor accepted. Your blame is misdirected.
:rofl They all failed, but so did Bush. My blame is not misdirected, it's just directed at someone you refuse to hold accountable for anything.
 
Can anyone give me links to serious organisations where I could send money through VISA?
I can't seem to find any.

Thx
Y
 
scottyz said:
It's convenient to say that because we will never know now, will we? We do know that Bush disrupted studies into the subject though. We know Bush handed over the wetlands that Bush Sr. and Clinton had tried to protect. The wetlands provide a natural buffer against hurricanes for New Orleans. It was no secret.

:rofl They all failed, but so did Bush. My blame is not misdirected, it's just directed at someone you refuse to hold accountable for anything.

It's also no secret that the levee's themselves have greatly contributed the the receding wetlands.
Ivor van Heerden, deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center
Before the levees were built, the river would top its banks during floods and wash through a maze of bayous and swamps, dropping fine-grained silt that nourished plants and kept the land just above sea level.

The levees have literally starved our wetlands to death by directing all of that precious silt out into the Gulf of Mexico
That bastard Bush should never have built those levee's!.....oops he didn't have anything to do with that....there must be a way to stick this to him. THERE HAS TO BE! :roll:

While you're busy directing blame from that perch of yours, you might want to at least give the appearance that you are casting blame for reasons other than shallow political mud slinging.
 
wrath said:
That bastard Bush should never have built those levee's!.....oops he didn't have anything to do with that....there must be a way to stick this to him. THERE HAS TO BE! :roll:
What levee's did Bush build? Bush cut funding to levee building and repair AND did away with the wetlands. He screwed New Orleans doubly.
 
scottyz said:
They didn't ask for $250 billion, not even close. All they wanted was a itty bitty tiny fraction of the amount we've spent in Iraq.

The point isn't what was asked for, it's the fact that there was no need proven before this incident. If there had been need, it's up to the interest group that's asking for the money to lobby Congress to plead their case. They failed. Not that it would have helped at all anyways.

In case you haven't noticed, Republicans ARE THE MAJORITY. If you split it down party lines the Dems are the minority so they have no voice unless some Republicans dissent. Republicans tend to vote as a block and I don't recall Bush vetoing anything at all.

So every single decision is the fault of the Republicans? What if the bill were voted down unanimously? Would it be fair to blame it on the Republicans? No. So, all I'm asking you to do to make me rethink my stance is show me the vote. That's it. If it was voted down in the House by 220-212 and the Senate by 55-45, then we might have an argument. If it's 425-7 in the house and 96-4 in the Senate, then the point is moot.

That's the last I'll say on THAT subject. If you want to argue your case, provide the evidence. Until then, don't waste my time.


It's convenient to say that because we will never know now, will we? We do know that Bush disrupted studies into the subject though. We know Bush handed over the wetlands that Bush Sr. and Clinton had tried to protect. The wetlands provide a natural buffer against hurricanes for New Orleans. It was no secret.

No, actually, we do know. There is absolutely no way that money cut in the past 5 years could have been used to design, prepare for, construct, and safeguard the massive levees that were being proposed.

The natural buffer, which as another poster pointed out, the levees would have further destroyed? Pick an argument and stick with it.

:rofl They all failed, but so did Bush. My blame is not misdirected, it's just directed at someone you refuse to hold accountable for anything.

It's not that I refuse to hold Bush accountable for anything, its that I don't think the middle of a catastrophe is the appropriate time to do so. If it turns out in the end that these failures were his fault, then it would be fair to discuss this again, once people aren't dying.
 
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