Hurricane Threads

[wrath]

It's not the general public's job to devolop a plan, it's the City of New Orleans' job to have one. Wait!!! The did have one; http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26 They just chose not to enact it. It states;

"The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed. ...

But the Mayor made a decision that school buses were not comfortable enough and demanded Greyhound buses to be sent to evacuate the residents. Mean while, the school buses got flooded.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/8/114045.shtml

I can't tell you how many times I posted the link to the City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan that clearly spells out what Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco are responsible for during and more importantly BEFORE a disaster like this.

They knew for 48 hours this monster was coming Yet the governor needed 24 of those hours to decide whether or not to evacuate!
The Superdome was never stocked to handle the multitudes that arrived and they wouldn't allow additional supplies from the Red Cross to be delivered because they didn't want more people to show up! YET, they never setup additional shelters and staging areas before landfall to get people out.
Anyone see the aerial photos of hundreds of gassed up busses in huge parking lots that never moved an inch! Busses that could have been used to transport the poor, elderly and those in hospitals out of the flood zones!

None of this was done and all of it is defined in their Emergency Management Plan. It's very telling that so many people choose to ignore this document.

 

[gordontravels]

I have listened to our media bashing the President for high gas prices for months now and now gas prices are falling even with the interruptions of Katrina.

It is so easy to blame that all you need is a camera, mic and an outlet so people can see your finger point. I've seen our media accuse on page 1 only to retract their mistake on page 18. For me, one who deplores even thinking that I might ever become a Democrat or Republican (please Lord no!!!!!!), I have to applaud President Bush for being the man he is even in the face of nothing but negative from the national media and Democrat Party. The media loves to report their polls when they have spent days, weeks and months bashing to prepare their audience before they put their poll up.

Partisanship in time of war may be acceptable because of many ways of thinking. A pacifist cannot be expected to support the cause. Someone that doesn't agree with the cause may protest. Political gain isn't necessarily the reason someone from the other party might not support the cause.

Partisanship during a disaster like Katrina is shameful for any Party or individual or media representative. Victims and damage need to be addressed and the negativity from politicians and media and celebrities that can't show up to help without their photographer in tow (Sean Penn) only separates the victims from the rest of the country.

This is America, the greatest country on earth. The greatest country that ever has been. We are Americans who care for our fellow citizens regardless of what a negative media tell us or at the very least, we should.

The New York Times in their Paris paper accused the City of Houston Texas of profiteering from the disaster when Texas has taken in over 250,000 victims of the disaster and is spending money it hopes will be paid back by the Federal Government. The same story that ran in the actual New York Times didn't put the "City of Houston profiting" in its same article. Why? Hey, lets keep the myth of "Bad Americans" alive in France so the French Government will have a whipping boy. Of course the French people are in the process of getting rid of their current government because they themselves when polled like their gov by less than 25%.

Our national media is a disgrace along with the partisan Republicans and Democrats that will try to profit politically from this disaster. Bashing could wait for investigations that will come but not for the likes of political hacks or partisans. They smell blood which could translate into profit for their party so why not jump right in. Just don't step on the victims with the negativity that will surely translate into alienation of many in the country that would otherwise help. :duel

 

[Pacridge]

I have listened to our media bashing the President for high gas prices for months now and now gas prices are falling even with the interruptions of Katrina.

It is so easy to blame that all you need is a camera, mic and an outlet so people can see your finger point. I've seen our media accuse on page 1 only to retract their mistake on page 18. For me, one who deplores even thinking that I might ever become a Democrat or Republican (please Lord no!!!!!!), I have to applaud President Bush for being the man he is even in the face of nothing but negative from the national media and Democrat Party. The media loves to report their polls when they have spent days, weeks and months bashing to prepare their audience before they put their poll up.

Partisanship in time of war may be acceptable because of many ways of thinking. A pacifist cannot be expected to support the cause. Someone that doesn't agree with the cause may protest. Political gain isn't necessarily the reason someone from the other party might not support the cause.

Partisanship during a disaster like Katrina is shameful for any Party or individual or media representative. Victims and damage need to be addressed and the negativity from politicians and media and celebrities that can't show up to help without their photographer in tow (Sean Penn) only separates the victims from the rest of the country.

This is America, the greatest country on earth. The greatest country that ever has been. We are Americans who care for our fellow citizens regardless of what a negative media tell us or at the very least, we should.

The New York Times in their Paris paper accused the City of Houston Texas of profiteering from the disaster when Texas has taken in over 250,000 victims of the disaster and is spending money it hopes will be paid back by the Federal Government. The same story that ran in the actual New York Times didn't put the "City of Houston profiting" in its same article. Why? Hey, lets keep the myth of "Bad Americans" alive in France so the French Government will have a whipping boy. Of course the French people are in the process of getting rid of their current government because they themselves when polled like their gov by less than 25%.

Our national media is a disgrace along with the partisan Republicans and Democrats that will try to profit politically from this disaster. Bashing could wait for investigations that will come but not for the likes of political hacks or partisans. They smell blood which could translate into profit for their party so why not jump right in. Just don't step on the victims with the negativity that will surely translate into alienation of many in the country that would otherwise help. :duel

Gas prices are falling? Not where I live. I just check my receipts for the last four months and the increase is .42 per gallon, on average.

 

[gordontravels]

Gas prices are falling? Not where I live. I just check my receipts for the last four months and the increase is .42 per gallon, on average.

I live in rural America and have seen prices drop by 9 cents in the last 3 days. Stories in the media now say that fuel prices are going down. Money News through NewsMax says prices are going down. Articles in the NYT's and WA Post have said prices are going to go down if not going down. I've heard similar reports from MSNBC and FNC with reference to how quick refineries came back from the disaster.

If you are urban you may not see relief for some time and especially where your fuel production is affected by heating oil production due to the season. I travel this country extensively and find that the coasts or even near the coasts tend to pay the price whereas the rural areas are more moderate.

I am only mouthing what I have heard from some media outlets and of course, what I pay myself and see in my area. Some people pay the price for where they live. :duel

 

[wrath]

I've seen a 49 cent drop where I fill up over the last week but still a ways to go before it's back where it was.

 

[Pacridge]

I live in rural America and have seen prices drop by 9 cents in the last 3 days. Stories in the media now say that fuel prices are going down. Money News through NewsMax says prices are going down. Articles in the NYT's and WA Post have said prices are going to go down if not going down. I've heard similar reports from MSNBC and FNC with reference to how quick refineries came back from the disaster.

If you are urban you may not see relief for some time and especially where your fuel production is affected by heating oil production due to the season. I travel this country extensively and find that the coasts or even near the coasts tend to pay the price whereas the rural areas are more moderate.

I am only mouthing what I have heard from some media outlets and of course, what I pay myself and see in my area. Some people pay the price for where they live. :duel

I live about as rural as you can get. I just called the station closest to me. It's 3.04 a gallon today. Checking my receipts they were at 2.49 on 6-4-05. Right after Mem. Day. Last week they were 3.09. So you're saying they're going down just recently? If so I guess I can agree with that. They did spike right after the hurricane and do seem to be lowering some, but they have a long way to go.

 

[gordontravels]

I live about as rural as you can get. I just called the station closest to me. It's 3.04 a gallon today. Checking my receipts they were at 2.49 on 6-4-05. Right after Mem. Day. Last week they were 3.09. So you're saying they're going down just recently? If so I guess I can agree with that. They did spike right after the hurricane and do seem to be lowering some, but they have a long way to go.

Sorry PAC but apparently you don't live rural enough. I just called and it's 2.72 at our local convenience store so it's 2.69 at our local Wal-Mart. Our high was 2.89 and 2.86 at Wal-Mart. When I decided to invest for myself and quit working for other people, I moved to where I did for the idea of what it would cost me to live. Turned out to be a good move even though I see price spikes like you all do. Mine aren't nearly as bad though.

By the way. It will be interesting to see how these so called investigations are handled by the Democrats and Republicans. Wait until they get into how Corp of Engineer money is spent in Louisiana under the watchful eye of Senator Landrieu and her brother, the Lieutenant Governor. LOL :duel

 

[Pacridge]

Sorry PAC but apparently you don't live rural enough. I just called and it's 2.72 at our local convenience store so it's 2.69 at our local Wal-Mart. Our high was 2.89 and 2.86 at Wal-Mart. When I decided to invest for myself and quit working for other people, I moved to where I did for the idea of what it would cost me to live. Turned out to be a good move even though I see price spikes like you all do. Mine aren't nearly as bad though.

By the way. It will be interesting to see how these so called investigations are handled by the Democrats and Republicans. Wait until they get into how Corp of Engineer money is spent in Louisiana under the watchful eye of Senator Landrieu and her brother, the Lieutenant Governor. LOL :duel

I don't live rural enough? I live rural enough that there is no local Wal-Mart. According to Wal-mart.com the nearest one is 42 miles from my house. The nearest town of more then 250 people is about 15 miles from my house. Perhaps I live too rural to enjoy the gas prices you're getting?

 

[gordontravels]

I don't live rural enough? I live rural enough that there is no local Wal-Mart. According to Wal-mart.com the nearest one is 42 miles from my house. The nearest town of more then 250 people is about 15 miles from my house. Perhaps I live too rural to enjoy the gas prices you're getting?

Sorry again PAC but no - you don't live rural enough. And it's not that I live in the country farther from civilization but where in the country I chose to live. I've traveled the states by motorhome with one trip lasting 3 years and I know where prices are prices. Again, that's why I chose to live where I do. 3.04 a gallon? Sorry. :duel

 

[tokugawa]

Economoic differences in the two regions you guys are in could be a factor, or maybe there are some station owners slow to react and taking you for a ride in the Northwest.

http://www.slate.com/id/2125814/?GT1=6900

Ethanol is sounding better every day, isn't it?

 

[ban.the.electoral.college]

A WEEK OF CRITICISM

The new polls indicated a week of criticism and political finger-pointing over who is to blame for the disastrous response to Katrina could have taken a toll on the White House.

A CBS poll taken September 6-7 found 38 percent approved of Bush's handling of the storm's aftermath, while 58 percent disapproved. That was a dramatic shift from immediately after the storm last week, when 54 percent approved and 12 percent disapproved.

The CBS poll also found confidence in Bush during a crisis had fallen and only 48 percent now view him as a strong leader -- the lowest number ever for Bush in the poll. A year ago 64 percent of voters saw Bush as a strong leader.

Bush's approval rating fell to 41 percent in a new Zogby poll, with only 36 percent giving him a passing grade on his handling of the response to the storm.

The Zogby poll also found broad pessimism among a majority of Americans after the storm, with 53 percent saying the country is headed in the wrong direction and 42 percent saying it is on the right track. SOURCE

 

[wrath]

A WEEK OF CRITICISM

The new polls indicated a week of criticism and political finger-pointing over who is to blame for the disastrous response to Katrina could have taken a toll on the White House.

Hasn't that been the goal of the democratic party since the moment Katrina made landfall? Hasn't that been the only reason the democratic party exists since 2000?

I must say the democratic leadership are masters in this tactic. They had two choices here. One, drop the partisan attacks for at least few weeks. Focus on recovery, relocation of victims and initial cleanup efforts. Once the situation had stabilized, then begin the process of evaluating the response and crank up the political machine. Or, nevermind the disaster, go right for the jugular and strike while the iron is hot so as not to miss another golden opportunity. Of course, option two was considered by them to be a win-win situation and the trap was set. Start the political mudslide immediately and if republicans respond they are no better then democrats. If they do not respond, their silence equates to guilt......brilliant!

Imagine if democrats had been able to take advantage of the complete failures of Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco at the onset of this disaster - but, as fate would have it, they are not republicans and therefore must be overlooked. No hat trick this times guys.

Taking political advantage of this tragedy from day one might have seemed too good to pass on but mark my words - in time there will be a price to pay.

 

[gordontravels]

TOKUGAWA? Sorry no. First understand that Slate is biased to the left and if you like that it's like ignoring anything from the right. People on the left or right aren't stupid; they believe in their positions but that doesn't mean they have our best interests in mind. Maybe they have their own agendas before what is really best for us.

Ethanol doesn't sound better at all. Right now ethanol is added to gasoline at approximately 10% to extend use of oil. If we go to vehicles that burn more ethanol then the price of oil goes up as does the price of ethanol simply because of market forces. Gold takes a huge jump and silver follows.

A lot is said of alternative fuels but why not set the Interstate speed limit at 55? It's been done before and then you can set your cruise control and see who wants to conserve. Why not require the automakers to provide real fuel efficient vehicles? It can be done and is right now by a few. Just remember that conservation does not translate to lower prices and probably will translate to higher prices. Market forces? Buy 25% less oil abroad and the cost of oil goes up 30%. Don't expect to save much money on ethanol.

BAN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE? Exactly. CBS. If you take a poll of viewers of CBS you get the opinions of CBS viewers just as you would FNC, CNN or any other outlet. Then you go to Zogby or Gallup. Where do the American people get their information, CBS or FNC? I heard that as many as 100,000 could be dead in New Orleans itself the day they realized what the damage was. That number is something when you compare it to less than 10,000.

You understand the polls are presented by the media, asked by the media and sometimes even withheld by the media as CBS has done in the past when they find the results don't fit their own political agenda. Polls are just that; someone else being asked but not me. My personal poll is 100% either way so why worry about CBS and their results.

And WRATH? Any political party seeks advantage and I don't care if you are 12 years old; you have seen it from both sides and across the world in other countries. Political parties call the shots and all the people can do is vote for one or the other or a Perot/Nader on occasion to really waste their vote. Political parties have too much power because we allow them and their media cronies to have it.

If we are registered Non-Partisan then the political parties have to wonder about us instead of us wondering about them. :duel

 

[gordontravels]

New York Times lovers step up. A very interesting article, I think page 1 titled "Breakdown Marked Path From Hurricane to Anarchy". This is like a 7 page article so you would think it quite comprehensive but NOOOOO. Just a little excerpt:

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^

From the New York Times September 11, 2005, QUOTE with my comments in parenthesis:

The governor of Louisiana was "blistering mad." (don't know where "blistering mad" came from). It was the third night after Hurricane Katrina drowned New Orleans, and Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco needed buses (buses, right?) to rescue thousands of people from the fetid Superdome and convention center. But only a fraction of the 500 vehicles promised by federal authorities had arrived (because there was a hurricane in progress no doubt).

Ms. Blanco burst into the state's emergency center in Baton Rouge. "Does anybody in this building know anything about buses?" she recalled crying out (truly an outcry).

They were an obvious linchpin for evacuating a city where nearly 100,000 people had no cars. Yet the federal, state and local officials who had failed to round up buses in advance were now in a frantic hunt (a frantic hunt???). It would be two more days before they found enough to empty the shelters. END QUOTE

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~

And where would you expect them to find those buses? Greyhound was called upon to send buses from multiple states where the hurricane hadn't destroyed the buses. Of course if you know what it's like to drive a slab sided vehicle in hurricane force winds you know they had to take it slow.

What I find absolutely mind boggling is that in this 6 or 7 page article (on line) the New York Times doesn't mention the fleets of buses in New Orleans; not the city buses and not the school buses that were there all along. The New York Times doesn't say the words nor mention that local transport was not used; all they do is blame the Federal Government for being slow to respond. Do you all get this?

One thing the Times does say is that millions of dollars were spent over the previous 2 years (that would include the experience with Ivan) by both the state and local government on their Emergency Preparedness Plan. BUT, as the Times points out (if you can believe it) - the PLAN (now don't laugh) didn't address two minor areas of possible need after 2 years of work - LAW ENFORCEMENT NEEDS AND TRANSPORTATION FOR EVACUEES!!!!!!!! One more - !

10 people died at the Superdome and 24 died at the Convention Center. Some of those were murdered. Although there was some security, inadequate as it was at the Superdome, there was nearly non-existent security at the Convention Center.

New Orleans Emergency Preparedness Plan - nothing for LAW ENFORCEMENT and nothing for TRANSPORTING EVACUEES!!!! I just can't believe that President Bush overlooked that - oh wait, I mean the New York Times - oh wait I mean the Mayor and the Governor and their millions spent - oh wait I mean the Plan? - oh wait, I mean...... nevermind. :duel

 

[MSgt]

A WEEK OF CRITICISM

The new polls indicated a week of criticism and political finger-pointing over who is to blame for the disastrous response to Katrina could have taken a toll on the White House.

A CBS poll taken September 6-7 found 38 percent approved of Bush's handling of the storm's aftermath, while 58 percent disapproved. That was a dramatic shift from immediately after the storm last week, when 54 percent approved and 12 percent disapproved.

The CBS poll also found confidence in Bush during a crisis had fallen and only 48 percent now view him as a strong leader -- the lowest number ever for Bush in the poll. A year ago 64 percent of voters saw Bush as a strong leader.

Bush's approval rating fell to 41 percent in a new Zogby poll, with only 36 percent giving him a passing grade on his handling of the response to the storm.

The Zogby poll also found broad pessimism among a majority of Americans after the storm, with 53 percent saying the country is headed in the wrong direction and 42 percent saying it is on the right track. SOURCE

This is why you have been proven to have no credibility. You have repeatedly proven to only care about the facts that paint the picture you wish to portray. You must have naked posters of Michael Moore on your ceiling. Here is a link that shows many polls reflecting people's reactions to Bush handling of Katrina, the State handling of Katrina, the city handling of Katrina and other such polls. Notice how I didn't exercise your type of champion level tunnel vision to blame one individual?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/08/opinion/polls/main824591.shtml

Now, after reading these many different polls that reflect a better picture of the wide spread problem, don't you have a better understanding of the wider spectrum of issues or did you just hone in on the specific polls that satisfied you? On another note, polls are stupid and only reflect an individual's opinion. Does it matter that that opinion may be based on a complete lack of understanding of government or any other issue? I guess not to the people that think polls should be a basis on which to lead.

By the way...when challenging the expediency on government to cut through red tape and it's lack of haste to bypass local government's and the bureacracy that has been involved with our way of life for many, many years, think about the Patriot Act. Aren't you one of the biggest opposers on this site on government intervention on local and civil liberties? I think this is a great example on people's inability to be satisfied.

 

[Pacridge]

This is why you have been proven to have no credibility. You have repeatedly proven to only care about the facts that paint the picture you wish to portray. You must have naked posters of Michael Moore on your ceiling. Here is a link that shows many polls reflecting people's reactions to Bush handling of Katrina, the State handling of Katrina, the city handling of Katrina and other such polls. Notice how I didn't exercise your type of champion level tunnel vision to blame one individual?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/08/opinion/polls/main824591.shtml

Now, after reading these many different polls that reflect a better picture of the wide spread problem, don't you have a better understanding of the wider spectrum of issues or did you just hone in on the specific polls that satisfied you? On another note, polls are stupid and only reflect an individual's opinion. Does it matter that that opinion may be based on a complete lack of understanding of government or any other issue? I guess not to the people that think polls should be a basis on which to lead.

By the way...when challenging the expediency on government to cut through red tape and it's lack of haste to bypass local government's and the bureacracy that has been involved with our way of life for many, many years, think about the Patriot Act. Aren't you one of the biggest opposers on this site on government intervention on local and civil liberties? I think this is a great example on people's inability to be satisfied.

Naked posters of Michael Moore? Thanks for that image, so much for lunch.

 

[Kelzie]

Naked posters of Michael Moore? Thanks for that image, so much for lunch.

Yeah, seriously GySgt. Why couldn't you have just said "topless". Ew.

 

[shuamort]

Yeah, seriously GySgt. Why couldn't you have just said "topless". Ew.

And when you said topless, why did I have to give him pasties? Double ew.

 

[wrath]

And when you said topless, why did I have to give him pasties? Double ew.

........and then, as much as I tried to fight it, I saw rotating tassels :crazy3:

 

[tokugawa]

TOKUGAWA? Sorry no. First understand that Slate is biased to the left and if you like that it's like ignoring anything from the right. People on the left or right aren't stupid; they believe in their positions but that doesn't mean they have our best interests in mind. Maybe they have their own agendas before what is really best for us.

Ethanol doesn't sound better at all. Right now ethanol is added to gasoline at approximately 10% to extend use of oil. If we go to vehicles that burn more ethanol then the price of oil goes up as does the price of ethanol simply because of market forces. Gold takes a huge jump and silver follows.

A lot is said of alternative fuels but why not set the Interstate speed limit at 55? It's been done before and then you can set your cruise control and see who wants to conserve. Why not require the automakers to provide real fuel efficient vehicles? It can be done and is right now by a few. Just remember that conservation does not translate to lower prices and probably will translate to higher prices. Market forces? Buy 25% less oil abroad and the cost of oil goes up 30%. Don't expect to save much money on ethanol.

Yes, Tokugawa. Interesting family, but I don't endorse isolationism. I am well aware that media outlets are biased, thank you for the lesson, I was simply offering a possibility seeing as how areas in the US differ, and sometimes business owners take liberties with pricing. I am a little confused. You suggest lowering the Interstate speed limit, but later state that conservation "probably will translate to higher prices." What do you think is the best way to lower gas prices? It is definately something people should try to figure out a decent solution for.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

And this is your post in reply as you quote me? I'll remember that when deciding who to reply to in the future but I'm glad you had a laugh. :duel

Was a slight funny is all. Wasn't aware that everything had to be uber serious. Anyway I thought it best to bale on this thread..Peeps were getting a little sensitive... I'll try and make any other replies to your post thoughfull, inspiring, indepth, serious, vurtious and witty...:lol:

 

[gordontravels]

Was a slight funny is all. Wasn't aware that everything had to be uber serious. Anyway I thought it best to bale on this thread..Peeps were getting a little sensitive... I'll try and make any other replies to your post thoughfull, inspiring, indepth, serious, vurtious and witty...:lol:

I appreciate your reply. I don't expect all posts to be in line with your examples above but my post was serious. If it hadn't been centered on people that lost their lives my response to your "gist" might have been different.

Truth be told, Mayor Nagin and state representatives made a video that I imagine would have been shown on the local PBS station that told the people of New Orleans what to do in the case of disaster and evacuation. It told them what to do but not what the City would do for them. The advice the Mayor gave in that video was to "get together with family and friends and car pool". Over 100,000 citizens without personal transportation in New Orleans and the Mayor tells them to "car pool"? One word Mr. Mayor; buses!!!

Polls have been cited here showing how 70%+ of blacks blame President Bush and 20%+ of whites do. ABC just did a poll and on three different sites including television they report figures for whites at 20, 21 and 24% for the same poll. They were also surprised to find that even though the reporting is definitely biased against the Federal Government, more people in this country blame local and state government in the way the disaster was handled. You can find this today in the New York Times and the Media Research Center respectively.

Democrats and Republicans; conservatives and liberals are to blame here and if any of you decide to just concentrate on one side or the other you will be setting the stage for more trouble down the road. Americans need to work together and understand that Democrats and Republicans are just that; partisan workhorses for their party first and the dead second. :duel