Hunger Games 1

[joko104]

Gun would have been concealed in my hand behind my back as they had acknowledged my existence...and the phone in the other while the police were on their way.

Why are you hiding the gun behind your back?

I fella I knew back in Chicago told me this recount. He had stopped in his expensive new car, him wearing a 3 piece suit and expensive overcoat, to drop a letter in a mailbox. As he was just about to get in his car, 4 young men approached him. One of the said, "Hey man, you got any money?"

When he had gotten out, he had one of those tiny Charter Arms 4 shot .22 magnums in his hand hidden by his black gloved right hand (it was very cold out). He replied, "What I got is this little 22 magnum. (showing it but not pointing it at them). But then I figure it's the size of bullet not the gun that matters. Hey! Is this a coincidence or what? It holds 4 bullets and there just happens to be 4 of you."

The response that came back to that? "Hey man, everything's cool" and the 4 walked away quickly."

 

[joko104]

Another fella I know who carried a dagger, not a gun, told of being approached by some punks for which he pulled out the dagger holding it over his head with both hands shouting out "I AM DEATH!" They turned and left. If, in a real sense of danger, why hide your weapon? Let them know you got it, that you'll use it, and think you are out of your mind. Just don't point it at them or directly threaten to use it.

 

[blackjack50]

Why are you hiding the gun behind your back?

I fella I knew back in Chicago told me this recount. He had stopped in his expensive new car, him wearing a 3 piece suit and expensive overcoat, to drop a letter in a mailbox. As he was just about to get in his car, 4 young men approached him. One of the said, "Hey man, you got any money?"

When he had gotten out, he had one of those tiny Charter Arms 4 shot .22 magnums in his hand hidden by his black gloved right hand (it was very cold out). He replied, "What I got is this little 22 magnum. (showing it but not pointing it at them). But then I figure it's the size of bullet not the gun that matters. Hey! Is this a coincidence or what? It holds 4 bullets and there just happens to be 4 of you."

The response that came back to that? "Hey man, everything's cool" and the 4 walked away quickly."

I'm not going to expose the weapon until I'm certain they mean me harm. I'm not going to give them a chance to call the cops and describe my weapon and call me a crazy lunatic with a gun. If they see it...they are I'm serious dookey.

If they got within shooting distance...they would get a verbal warning to back off. That is about it. Shock value and violence of action will go a long way to overcome an aggressor.

 

[joko104]

Im thinking I would probably be on the phone with the police as soon as I sensed a threat, be taking pictures on the phone with the police on speaker phone and sending them, and the whole while make sure there was no question or doubt what i was doing, especially towards the perceived 'leader'. As I am usually armed I would make that fact known to the police as loud and clear as I could and if it came up I would make sure the 'leader' knew that all I really had at the time was one target in mind...him...and regardless what anyone ELSE did, he was going to be in a hurting status in short order. All the while, praying and hoping I sounded as convincing as I needed to to avoid everything altogether.

I agree. Saying "I'm dialing 911" isn't enough. Say "I've sent your picture to the police and they now have and are on their way. If nothing happens, it doesn't matter." It not only makes a point, but redirects/confuses.

 

[joko104]

I'm ready to do the same. I've answered the door with my gun in my hand. (Midnight, young man at the door; I was home alone.) That's hopefully as close as I'll ever get to defending my home and family. I don't relish the idea. I don't practice loading/re-loading. I don't look into a mirror and practice verbal judo when no one's home. I don't think about "Make My Day" movie scenes; and I hope to God I never have to point my gun at another human being and pull the trigger.

When you look for trouble, you run a higher risk of finding it. No thank you.

I have posted quite a few times: "If people go looking for trouble, sometimes they'll find it."

That is EXACTLY what happened to both George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman thought Martin potentially might be trouble - and he was more right than he ever imagined. Martin figured Zimmerman was a hassle - and turned out to be more than he imagined in his wildest concerns. Both walked deliberately right into the trouble they suspected - only it was vastly more than their wisdom and perceived abilities could deal with. They both went looking for trouble and unfortunately they both found it.

 

[joko104]

For Maggie... often you've posted you'd give them everything you got. Agreed - BUT - that often isn't enough - AND while you are moving about any motion you make could be that one instant that sets the other person off - plus you have made it clear you are fearful - which is blood before some sharks.

You may have figured out I'm a rather paranoid person - but also proactively calculate upon that emotion and past - rather than just being fearful. Most of my life, I had to anyway. I know the realities of violent, sadistic brutal men more than anyone should ever know. My wife is paranoid, ever since being brutally assaulted. When young, my oldest daughter saw such men do what they do too. In light of that.

Both my wife and daughter carry a specific purpose $1500. I know most people couldn't afford it. We can. It is specifically 7 $100 bills, 8 $50 bills and 20 $20 bills in a loose side slot of their purses that have medium length straps. Both are rehearsed in seemingly taking hold of their purse in a way as if handing it to them, but instead it drops one side spilling that money out on the ground. She is then to act startled, take a step back if possible for that startle and say "that's the bosses money I was suppose to take to the bank, but you take it. He's an asshole anyway. I don't care." Watching for opportunity to run.

At least 95% would fixation that money. Whatever his/their initial goal was, getting that money likely has instantly become his/their priority - instead of you - and you has not resisted, No delays while she is making lots of body movement for ring and necklace etc, even is with them against rich assholes, nor begging either as that can be counter productive - meaning to his/their mind he/they have "succeeded" probably more than he/they though as it looks like a HUGE sum to most people - and she has a chance to run. Does he chase her leaving the money behind? Likely not. And she has bought her life. Plus, otherwise she always has an emergency cash reserve.

Even for men, have MONEY ready to give. And a couple 100s and a couple 50s in that. "I don't have any money" can and does enrage junkies. If they can't get money, then they'll get something else or take the rage out on you. IE, ALWAYS be prepared to buy your life. Smoothly, quickly and with what appears a notable sum more than expected as a positive to that criminal. 9 out 10 times, the motive is for drug money.

 

[MaggieD]

For Maggie... often you've posted you'd give them everything you got. Agreed - BUT - that often isn't enough - AND while you are moving about any motion you make could be that one instant that sets the other person off - plus you have made it clear you are fearful - which is blood before some sharks.

You may have figured out I'm a rather paranoid person - but also proactively calculate upon that emotion and past - rather than just being fearful. Most of my life, I had to anyway. I know the realities of violent, sadistic brutal men more than anyone should ever know. My wife is paranoid, ever since being brutally assaulted. When young, my oldest daughter saw such men do what they do too. In light of that.

Both my wife and daughter carry a specific purpose $1500. I know most people couldn't afford it. We can. It is specifically 7 $100 bills, 8 $50 bills and 20 $20 bills in a loose side slot of their purses that have medium length straps. Both are rehearsed in seemingly taking hold of their purse in a way as if handing it to them, but instead it drops one side spilling that money out on the ground. She is then to act startled, take a step back if possible for that startle and say "that's the bosses money I was suppose to take to the bank, but you take it. He's an asshole anyway. I don't care." Watching for opportunity to run.

At least 95% would fixation that money. Whatever his/their initial goal was, getting that money likely has become the pariority - and she has not resisted, been making lots of body movement for ring and necklace etc, even is with them against rich assholes - they have "succeeded" probably more than they though as it looks like a HUGE sum to most people - and she has a chance to run. Does he chase her leaving the money behind? Likely not. And she has bought her life. Plus, otherwise she always has an emergency cash reserve.

Even for men, have MONEY ready to give. And a couple 100s and a couple 50s in that. "I don't have any money" can and does enrage junkies. If they can't get money, then they'll get something else or take the rage out on you. IE, ALWAYS be prepared to buy your life.

That's an excellent idea!

Tommy's a cab driver. Now he just does private rides, so he's in a safe environment. But before? OMG, the stories of the pickles he'd get himself into. He always carried a mix of 50 $5 and $1 bills with the intent to throw it on the ground and run like hell -- or drive like hell. Same idea. Great minds.

I never thought of it from a personal perspective. Makes good sense. Thanks!

 

[joko104]

One BAD ruling in my opinion (a reversal of their initial decision) of the BATF was that wallet-holders were federally illegal as a disguised gun (cane guns etc are seriously illegal). It was a wallet that specifically held a Kel-Tec single stack .380. A hole for the trigger and barrel end, allowed the slide to function, and a slot for spent cartridge ejection. The idea being if someone demanded your wallet, "you'd give it to him." Good design but now seriously federally (and most state laws too) illegal.

 

[PirateMk1]

Having spotted them early and classified them as "potential threat" I would not wait any longer; I would do what I have done in the past in such situations... pick my ground and take a tactically sound position. There's probably some kind of cover nearby where I can keep them from encircling me, and provide some cover if they are armed and shoot back.


Given that there are four of them, I'm not interested in going HTH if that can be avoided. In most such scenarios I will be armed, so I will have my hand on my pistol, having already secured a proper grip will be ready to draw and if need be fire in under a second. (Clearing and securing a proper grip is one of the most time-expensive portions of a drawstroke, so it pays to do it early if you feel threatened. A little strategic body positioning can hide this from others if that is desired; sometimes making it obvious is your best bet---- perps know what a man with his hand on a gun looks like.)


I would then say "Guys, I don't have anything on me worth your life, and that's the price tag."

If the situation escalated any further I'd drop behind my cover and draw, taking aim at the worst threat first and prepared to open fire.


So I don't really need the rest of this scenario, because I'm not likely to ever let it get that far....

I think of all the responses to this thread which were fairly decent yours is by far best. The key, most important part of what you said, is recognizing the scenario unfolding and taking steps to mitigate and neutralize the potential threat. If anything is gotten out of this exercise it is this, being aware of your surroundings. Others in this thread have said the same thing in their own way but I think you answered it best and more succinctly in the given parameters. Awareness and anticipation are vital practices to keep from being easy meat.

Note for others, I routinely carry openly, so people with ill intent are generally dissuaded BEFORE there is ever a confrontation. I have never had a confrontation in fact in all the time I have carried OPENLY. Something to be said for displaying your irons as it were. That's a subject for another thread though.

 

[PirateMk1]

Lots of good and informative stuff in the thread from everyone. Thanks to all. The moral of the story be threefold A.) Keep your head on a swivel. B.) Act confident and purposeful. C.) Keep your wits about you before and during a confrontation.

 

[Goshin]

For Maggie... often you've posted you'd give them everything you got. Agreed - BUT - that often isn't enough - AND while you are moving about any motion you make could be that one instant that sets the other person off - plus you have made it clear you are fearful - which is blood before some sharks.

You may have figured out I'm a rather paranoid person - but also proactively calculate upon that emotion and past - rather than just being fearful. Most of my life, I had to anyway. I know the realities of violent, sadistic brutal men more than anyone should ever know. My wife is paranoid, ever since being brutally assaulted. When young, my oldest daughter saw such men do what they do too. In light of that.

Both my wife and daughter carry a specific purpose $1500. I know most people couldn't afford it. We can. It is specifically 7 $100 bills, 8 $50 bills and 20 $20 bills in a loose side slot of their purses that have medium length straps. Both are rehearsed in seemingly taking hold of their purse in a way as if handing it to them, but instead it drops one side spilling that money out on the ground. She is then to act startled, take a step back if possible for that startle and say "that's the bosses money I was suppose to take to the bank, but you take it. He's an asshole anyway. I don't care." Watching for opportunity to run.

At least 95% would fixation that money. Whatever his/their initial goal was, getting that money likely has instantly become his/their priority - instead of you - and you has not resisted, No delays while she is making lots of body movement for ring and necklace etc, even is with them against rich assholes, nor begging either as that can be counter productive - meaning to his/their mind he/they have "succeeded" probably more than he/they though as it looks like a HUGE sum to most people - and she has a chance to run. Does he chase her leaving the money behind? Likely not. And she has bought her life. Plus, otherwise she always has an emergency cash reserve.

Even for men, have MONEY ready to give. And a couple 100s and a couple 50s in that. "I don't have any money" can and does enrage junkies. If they can't get money, then they'll get something else or take the rage out on you. IE, ALWAYS be prepared to buy your life. Smoothly, quickly and with what appears a notable sum more than expected as a positive to that criminal. 9 out 10 times, the motive is for drug money.

That's actually a great idea... but as you pointed out, a lot of people can't afford that... or even afford a couple throw-down Ben Franklins, either.

One of my most-honored gun instructors says he keeps a roll of cash in his left pocket... a $20 on the outside and several 1's inside, rubber-banded... the 20 covers the 1s and makes it look like a roll of 20s (maybe ten-fifteen bills). He says its his "throw down roll"... as in he throws it on the ground between him and the perp and says "You can have that for free; anything else is going to cost you in blood."

He's a little guy, but he has that do-not-frack-with-me manner about him in spades; I think most would grab the roll and run, only finding out later that it wasn't as much as they thought it was.

The key to a good threat is really meaning it and really feeling the confidence that you can and will back it up unless the perp complies instantly. That's the thing: it has to be real. A threat that is BS, that the person saying it obviously doesn't believe himself, is just like blood in the water among sharks.

Women can do it to... I've known some. They just have to work harder at it and be even more ready to demonstrate that they were not kidding. My buddy's wife, a tiny little 4'11" gal, demonstrated this principle clearly one day when she scared off some intruders by coming to the door in a towel, a smile, and a 9mm Glock.

 

[joko104]

That's an excellent idea!

Tommy's a cab driver. Now he just does private rides, so he's in a safe environment. But before? OMG, the stories of the pickles he'd get himself into. He always carried a mix of 50 $5 and $1 bills with the intent to throw it on the ground and run like hell -- or drive like hell. Same idea. Great minds.

I never thought of it from a personal perspective. Makes good sense. Thanks!

A cab driver in metro Chicago?! OMG. But I think you said you live in the 'burbs. 5s and 1s works too. I'm glad to hear he now longer in doing general fares. You too sound like a good couple overall. "Run like hell" after a diversion is generally the best plan of all. There are druggies who will knive someone, assault someone, kill for $20.

 

[joko104]

That's actually a great idea... but as you pointed out, a lot of people can't afford that... or even afford a couple throw-down Ben Franklins, either.

One of my most-honored gun instructors says he keeps a roll of cash in his left pocket... a $20 on the outside and several 1's inside, rubber-banded... the 20 covers the 1s and makes it look like a roll of 20s (maybe ten-fifteen bills). He says its his "throw down roll"... as in he throws it on the ground between him and the perp and says "You can have that for free; anything else is going to cost you in blood."

He's a little guy, but he has that do-not-frack-with-me manner about him in spades; I think most would grab the roll and run, only finding out later that it wasn't as much as they thought it was.

The key to a good threat is really meaning it and really feeling the confidence that you can and will back it up unless the perp complies instantly. That's the thing: it has to be real. A threat that is BS, that the person saying it obviously doesn't believe himself, is just like blood in the water among sharks.

Women can do it to... I've known some. They just have to work harder at it and be even more ready to demonstrate that they were not kidding. My buddy's wife, a tiny little 4'11" gal, demonstrated this principle clearly one day when she scared off some intruders by coming to the door in a towel, a smile, and a 9mm Glock.

Hadn't noticed your new sig line before. While I agree with all of it, I particularly agree in general with the first half of it. On the forum I've often referred to them as "Zippy Pinhead Academics." Trying to ruin society and others like they are still having pipedream debates of liberal philosophy class 301 passing around a joint and sipping on wine and nibbling on cheese, proud they are so enlightened unlike all us stupid people - when they are lazy ass zippy pinheads having little grasp of reality and unworthy of their self proclaimed superiority.

In many histories of many populous uprisings, the "intelligencia" is rounded up and imprisoned or executed. They've had enough of their BS.

The theory of this country's government was it would be lead by NORMAL people that reflected the wants and needs of average person.

 

[tech30528]

I'm continuing to walk in the same direction and at the same speed I was going and drawing. Perhaps something like "get the duck out of my way". If he's still standing there when we are closer than 21 feet and appears aggressive he's going down. The hingepin there is "I was in fear for my life". A situation such as described easily constitutes self defense. I own a business, it is not unusual for me to make bank deposits in the thousands of dollars, I have a carry permit which means I've passed state and federal background checks, and I shoot with law enforcement officers who agree. I just attended a rifle instructor 's training course two weeks ago, the guy sitting next to me was the assistant DA. There is no doubt where the armed citizen stands in that situation as long as you are not used as a political pawn by the media.

 

[joko104]

I'm continuing to walk in the same direction and at the same speed I was going and drawing. Perhaps something like "get the duck out of my way". If he's still standing there when we are closer than 21 feet and appears aggressive he's going down. The hingepin there is "I was in fear for my life". A situation such as described easily constitutes self defense. I own a business, it is not unusual for me to make bank depositions in the thousands of dollars, I have a carry permit which means I've passed state and federal background checks, and I shoot with law enforcement officers who agree. I just attended a rifle instructor 's training course two weeks ago, the guy sitting next to me was the assistant DA. There is no doubt where the armed citizen stands in that situation as long as you are not used as a political pawn by the media.

It likely depends on the state you are in, the specific DA who reviews it, who you shot and what any witnesses might say. Some states do recognize enhanced defense and weapons carrying/usage rights if a person is carrying a large sum of money.

 

[Goshin]

It likely depends on the state you are in, the specific DA who reviews it, who you shot and what any witnesses might say. Some states do recognize enhanced defense and weapons carrying/usage rights if a person is carrying a large sum of money.

I don't know if all states recognize this, but my state considers 2 on 1 or more to be automatically equivalent to lethal force.

 

[joko104]

I don't know if all states recognize this, but my state considers 2 on 1 or more to be automatically equivalent to lethal force.

That's very interesting and WISELY recognizes it does not take a weapon to seriously and permanently disfigure, cripple or murder someone.

 

[tech30528]

It likely depends on the state you are in, the specific DA who reviews it, who you shot and what any witnesses might say. Some states do recognize enhanced defense and weapons carrying/usage rights if a person is carrying a large sum of money.

Did I mention I handle the fleet service for the county sheriff's department? I have made deposits at the bank while test driving a squad car. :lol:

 

[Jerry]

Having spotted them early and classified them as "potential threat" I would not wait any longer; I would do what I have done in the past in such situations... pick my ground and take a tactically sound position. There's probably some kind of cover nearby where I can keep them from encircling me, and provide some cover if they are armed and shoot back.

The point of the excorsize is to deal with the situation once you've made the mistake of allowing yourself to be surrounded.

 

[Goshin]

The point of the excorsize is to deal with the situation once you've made the mistake of allowing yourself to be surrounded.

Understood, but I'd be very very disappointed in myself if I was so lax as to let it get to that point, after getting that much advance warning.

 

[Surtr]

You accepted an invitation to a birthday party in your home town.

View attachment 67151238


The evening of the party, you make a series of mistakes leading to a bad situation you must now deal with.

You park on the only available street with a space within a reasonable distance to a party. The street is quite dark and near an area of crime. That night as you walk back towards you car after leaving the party, still half a block away from your car, 4 guys walk quickly towards you appearing around one corner. They begin to yell out insults and when near, their seeming "leader" stands in front of you blocking your way forward on the sidewalk and says something like: "Hey my friends Mr Suit and Tie here looks like he has some good money on him" and all 4 begin to joke about your fine clothes and money you must have on you - as the same time each slowly moves into a circle around you, one either side, one behind and the original guy in front.

At this point you sense an attack that could be moments away. It's not happening nor is anyone actually threatened you directly. Their taunting talk about your money and physical moves into a circle around you feels very threatening to you.

What do you do?

*****
Thinking and Self-Defense
Boyd

I wouldn't be wearing nice clothes in the ghetto, nor would I ever go to such a place.

 

[Jerry]

I wouldn't be wearing nice clothes in the ghetto, nor would I ever go to such a place.

The point of the excorsize is to deal with the situation once you've made the mistake of allowing yourself to be surrounded. I think it's quite rude of you and others to argue how you would not have gotten into that situation, since such is off-topic.

 

[Surtr]

The point of the excorsize is to deal with the situation once you've made the mistake of allowing yourself to be surrounded. I think it's quite rude of you and others to argue how you would not have gotten into that situation, since such is off-topic.

The first and possibly most important part of self defense is not putting yourself in a position where you'll have to defend yourself. In this instance, I don't know what I'd do. They have me surrounded. If I draw my pistol, I have a clear shot of the guy in front of me, but the others aren't going to be that easy, because they can easily grab the gun out of my hand and use it against me. One or more of them are going to get hurt, I'm going to get hurt, and nobody is going to be happy.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I wouldn't be wearing nice clothes in the ghetto, nor would I ever go to such a place.

Never say never, and those type of things happen in "nice areas" as well.

 

[blackjack50]

I would just start stripping. Nobody wants to fight a naked guy.