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Hunger Games 1

Jerry

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You accepted an invitation to a birthday party in your home town.

funny-husky-dog-birthday-cake.jpg


The evening of the party, you make a series of mistakes leading to a bad situation you must now deal with.

You park on the only available street with a space within a reasonable distance to a party. The street is quite dark and near an area of crime. That night as you walk back towards you car after leaving the party, still half a block away from your car, 4 guys walk quickly towards you appearing around one corner. They begin to yell out insults and when near, their seeming "leader" stands in front of you blocking your way forward on the sidewalk and says something like: "Hey my friends Mr Suit and Tie here looks like he has some good money on him" and all 4 begin to joke about your fine clothes and money you must have on you - as the same time each slowly moves into a circle around you, one either side, one behind and the original guy in front.

At this point you sense an attack that could be moments away. It's not happening nor is anyone actually threatened you directly. Their taunting talk about your money and physical moves into a circle around you feels very threatening to you.

What do you do?

*****
Thinking and Self-Defense
Boyd
 

MaggieD

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You accepted an invitation to a birthday party in your home town.

View attachment 67151238


The evening of the party, you make a series of mistakes leading to a bad situation you must now deal with.

You park on the only available street with a space within a reasonable distance to a party. The street is quite dark and near an area of crime. That night as you walk back towards you car after leaving the party, still half a block away from your car, 4 guys walk quickly towards you appearing around one corner. They begin to yell out insults and when near, their seeming "leader" stands in front of you blocking your way forward on the sidewalk and says something like: "Hey my friends Mr Suit and Tie here looks like he has some good money on him" and all 4 begin to joke about your fine clothes and money you must have on you - as the same time each slowly moves into a circle around you, one either side, one behind and the original guy in front.

At this point you sense an attack that could be moments away. It's not happening nor is anyone actually threatened you directly. Their taunting talk about your money and physical moves into a circle around you feels very threatening to you.

What do you do?

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Boyd

I would give them my money, jewelry and car keys, hoping that was enough.

Edit: If I were carrying a weapon in my purse, I'd probably have it out as I walked to my car. If that were the case, my answer would be completely different. "Who wants to die first?"
 

blaxshep

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I would politely ask them to wait while I call 911.
 

CRUE CAB

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1. Draw. I am not fighting 4 guys at my age.
2. Step quickly towards the directiion I was going. The one most in the way will move. If he dont, fire. If I feel like not killing him, I may miss, but I can garrantee the bark of a 2" .38 with +P rounds will get his attention.
3. Next round will be a kill shot.
Also, its good to know how to keep all potential attackers in front of you by continuing to move. They move, you move. Keep backing up keeping them in front. Dont depend on your peripheral in a high stress situation. Your vision narrows as your PB and adrenalin goes up.
Dont talk, dont threaten, dont warn, keep quiet. At that point let your gun and training take over. You have trained right?
Not engaging them in conversation will make them wonder what your abilities are. You still have an upperhand at that point.
Now they are weighing their options as what to do with an armed man. Most times they will back down.
Worst case, you have to start firing for effect. Best to put them all down if you can. You want to show the cops it was 4 on one.
Be ready for you live to change, and maybe not for the better.
 

VanceMack

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Im thinking I would probably be on the phone with the police as soon as I sensed a threat, be taking pictures on the phone with the police on speaker phone and sending them, and the whole while make sure there was no question or doubt what i was doing, especially towards the perceived 'leader'. As I am usually armed I would make that fact known to the police as loud and clear as I could and if it came up I would make sure the 'leader' knew that all I really had at the time was one target in mind...him...and regardless what anyone ELSE did, he was going to be in a hurting status in short order. All the while, praying and hoping I sounded as convincing as I needed to to avoid everything altogether.
 

MaggieD

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Im thinking I would probably be on the phone with the police as soon as I sensed a threat, be taking pictures on the phone with the police on speaker phone and sending them, and the whole while make sure there was no question or doubt what i was doing, especially towards the perceived 'leader'. As I am usually armed I would make that fact known to the police as loud and clear as I could and if it came up I would make sure the 'leader' knew that all I really had at the time was one target in mind...him...and regardless what anyone ELSE did, he was going to be in a hurting status in short order. All the while, praying and hoping I sounded as convincing as I needed to to avoid everything altogether.

The answer of a responsible gun owner. ^^
 

MaggieD

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1. Draw. I am not fighting 4 guys at my age.
2. Step quickly towards the directiion I was going. The one most in the way will move. If he dont, fire. If I feel like not killing him, I may miss, but I can garrantee the bark of a 2" .38 with +P rounds will get his attention.
3. Next round will be a kill shot.
Also, its good to know how to keep all potential attackers in front of you by continuing to move. They move, you move. Keep backing up keeping them in front. Dont depend on your peripheral in a high stress situation. Your vision narrows as your PB and adrenalin goes up.
Dont talk, dont threaten, dont warn, keep quiet. At that point let your gun and training take over. You have trained right?
Not engaging them in conversation will make them wonder what your abilities are. You still have an upperhand at that point.
Now they are weighing their options as what to do with an armed man. Most times they will back down.
Worst case, you have to start firing for effect. Best to put them all down if you can. You want to show the cops it was 4 on one.
Be ready for you live to change, and maybe not for the better.

An interesting response given our discussion in another thread.

I would never fire a warning shot. Ever. Once I pulled the trigger, I'd empty my gun and, in the excitement, I'd probably be shooting someone in the back. Yikes. (It's a good thing to think about, really.)
 

CRUE CAB

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I would give them my money, jewelry and car keys, hoping that was enough.

Edit: If I were carrying a weapon in my purse, I'd probably have it out as I walked to my car. If that were the case, my answer would be completely different. "Who wants to die first?"
I work hard for everything I have, I am never going to hand it over to thugs. They better be able to beat it out of me, but I will get my pound of flesh.
 

MaggieD

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I work hard for everything I have, I am never going to hand it over to thugs. They better be able to beat it out of me, but I will get my pound of flesh.

I have enough confidence in myself and my abilities that there's not a damned thing I own that I dont' think I can replace.

Except my life.
 

CRUE CAB

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An interesting response given our discussion in another thread.

I would never fire a warning shot. Ever. Once I pulled the trigger, I'd empty my gun and, in the excitement, I'd probably be shooting someone in the back. Yikes. (It's a good thing to think about, really.)
Not really a warning shot, but if they have yet to produce a weapon between them, I would rather a deliberate miss than kill someone I could scare away.
But thats only if I have the time and am till calm enough to carry it off.
Otherwise, its in his brain.
And lets not be foolish, if he drops, and his compadres run, buy the time the cops get there. There will be a knife in his hand or close to it. I will be found feverishly trying to "save" him when the cops get there and I will be all kinds of contrite.
 

Jerry

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I have enough confidence in myself and my abilities that there's not a damned thing I own that I dont' think I can replace.

Except my life.
I can appreciate that sentiment, but some of us have items in our wallets which could cause real problems if they were stolen. In fact, I keep certain things in my wallet to keep them from being stolen. My wallet is my most secure place to keep something, so it doesn't follow that I would give it up.

Rather than file a report with the MPs, and recover 3 stolen identities, and my income, I would rather put a bullet on the thug's chest.
 

blaxshep

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I can appreciate that sentiment, but some of us have items in our wallets which could cause real problems if they were stolen. In fact, I keep certain things in my wallet to keep them from being stolen. My wallet is my most secure place to keep something, so it doesn't follow that I would give it up.

You are way too attached to your condoms. :lamo
 

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You accepted an invitation to a birthday party in your home town.

View attachment 67151238

The evening of the party, you make a series of mistakes leading to a bad situation you must now deal with.

You park on the only available street with a space within a reasonable distance to a party. The street is quite dark and near an area of crime. That night as you walk back towards you car after leaving the party, still half a block away from your car, 4 guys walk quickly towards you appearing around one corner. They begin to yell out insults and when near, their seeming "leader" stands in front of you blocking your way forward on the sidewalk and says something like: "Hey my friends Mr Suit and Tie here looks like he has some good money on him" and all 4 begin to joke about your fine clothes and money you must have on you - as the same time each slowly moves into a circle around you, one either side, one behind and the original guy in front.

At this point you sense an attack that could be moments away. It's not happening nor is anyone actually threatened you directly. Their taunting talk about your money and physical moves into a circle around you feels very threatening to you.

What do you do?

*****
Thinking and Self-Defense
Boyd

Good question. Everyone who carries a concealed firearm needs to ask themselves this question. I rarely go out after dark but when I do I park where there is good lighting, even if I arrive at my destination during the daylight thinking I might be there after the sun has set. I would hope to never place myself or my family in the situation you described.

However, if it did happen I would probably announce that I was armed and have not shot anybody today. I would say I have two extra mags of .45 ammo ready to shoot until I was empty, as I was backing up. (Even though I usually carry a 9mm filled with Federal +P+ 115 grain hollow point ammo. Deek)

If they continued to approach I would probably "stand my ground."
 

Morrigi

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Im thinking I would probably be on the phone with the police as soon as I sensed a threat, be taking pictures on the phone with the police on speaker phone and sending them, and the whole while make sure there was no question or doubt what i was doing, especially towards the perceived 'leader'. As I am usually armed I would make that fact known to the police as loud and clear as I could and if it came up I would make sure the 'leader' knew that all I really had at the time was one target in mind...him...and regardless what anyone ELSE did, he was going to be in a hurting status in short order. All the while, praying and hoping I sounded as convincing as I needed to to avoid everything altogether.
This.
 

CRUE CAB

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Im thinking I would probably be on the phone with the police as soon as I sensed a threat, be taking pictures on the phone with the police on speaker phone and sending them, and the whole while make sure there was no question or doubt what i was doing, especially towards the perceived 'leader'. As I am usually armed I would make that fact known to the police as loud and clear as I could and if it came up I would make sure the 'leader' knew that all I really had at the time was one target in mind...him...and regardless what anyone ELSE did, he was going to be in a hurting status in short order. All the while, praying and hoping I sounded as convincing as I needed to to avoid everything altogether.
Your phone is not a weapon. Nothing about your phone that will stop people in their tracks, and they know how long its going to be to get cops to you. You will be on the ground and beaten to a pulp and robbed of everything you have long before the cops even roll.
Sure, you may get a good lick in on one of them. Big deal when you got 4 people to contend with.
Start screaming on the phone to the police you have a gun, you will be viewed as a nut case more than likely be cuffed and stuffed until the cops "figure it all out".
Stop watching Jack Reacher and get some training.
 

spud_meister

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I'd move past the leader and keep walking. Projected self-confidence and my stature can work wonders.
 

VanceMack

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Your phone is not a weapon. Nothing about your phone that will stop people in their tracks, and they know how long its going to be to get cops to you. You will be on the ground and beaten to a pulp and robbed of everything you have long before the cops even roll.
Sure, you may get a good lick in on one of them. Big deal when you got 4 people to contend with.
Start screaming on the phone to the police you have a gun, you will be viewed as a nut case more than likely be cuffed and stuffed until the cops "figure it all out".
Stop watching Jack Reacher and get some training.
I have more training than you can imagine and I also understand people and psychology. Ive been around more than a minute. Ive been a licensed bodyguard, had a long military career, and have been through FBI trained courses on personnel protection.

Use your brain. UNTIL they have done something to you, they are a potential menace, not a threat. If you see a situation and pull a weapon and start blasting away, you are going to prison. Want to go to prison? I dont. Simultaneously announcing my armed status to both the police and the individuals would give them the opportunity to make decision to NOT pursue and attack. Should they continue, focusing on the dominant male would make him far less likely to continue with an attack and would also make his cohorts less likely as well. Demonstrating personal control goes a long way to presenting as something other than a 'victim'. Pictures of the would be perpetrators would be likely to make them think twice. Thats called 'evidence' and most criminals arent really excited about going to prison either. Most criminals are going to pass. SHOULD the eventual worst case scenario come about you have demonstrated an effort to resolve the situation without violence and created a defendable position in court as well. Your assertion that you are going to be 'beaten to a pulp' is certainly justification for opening fire.

Best case scenario would be to not put yourself in that situation in the first place. Given the scenario...that wasnt an option.
 

CRUE CAB

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I have more training than you can imagine and I also understand people and psychology. Ive been around more than a minute. Ive been a licensed bodyguard, had a long military career, and have been through FBI trained courses on personnel protection.

Use your brain. UNTIL they have done something to you, they are a menace, not a threat. If you see a situation and pull a weapon and start blasting away, you are going to prison. Want to go to prison? I dont. Simultaneously announcing my armed status to both the police and the individuals would give them the opportunity to make decision to NOT pursue and attack. Should they continue, focusing on the dominant male would make him far less likely to continue with an attack and would also make his cohorts less likely as well. Demonstrating personal control goes a long way to presenting as something other than a 'victim'. Most criminals are going to pass. SHOULD the eventual worst case scenario come about you have demonstrated an effort to resolve the situation without violence and created a defendable position in court as well. Your assertion that you are going to be 'beaten to a pulp' is certainly justification for opening fire.

Best case scenario would be to not put yourself in that situation in the first place. Given the scenario...that wasnt an option.
I also have plenty of high level training, gun permits, law enforcement, licensed armed guard and on and on.
And no one said just draw and open fire.
But if you think you can out think and out move and out fight 4 guys, good luck. I am not waiting to be struck to bring my weapon to bear. Just like a street fight, I am not waiting around for someone to clean my clock before I fight, if I have to strike first, I have to strike first. And I have and I will again if needed. There is no law that says I have to wait around to be injured to the point where I cant fight back to defend myself.
Tell some thugs "hey guys I have a gun". What are you going to do when they just go and pull theirs. THEN you going for yours?
You are willing to give your adversary the upper hand, is they what they are teaching in the FBI now a days?
 

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I have more training than you can imagine and I also understand people and psychology. Ive been around more than a minute. Ive been a licensed bodyguard, had a long military career, and have been through FBI trained courses on personnel protection.

Use your brain. UNTIL they have done something to you, they are a potential menace, not a threat. If you see a situation and pull a weapon and start blasting away, you are going to prison. Want to go to prison? I dont. Simultaneously announcing my armed status to both the police and the individuals would give them the opportunity to make decision to NOT pursue and attack. Should they continue, focusing on the dominant male would make him far less likely to continue with an attack and would also make his cohorts less likely as well. Demonstrating personal control goes a long way to presenting as something other than a 'victim'. Pictures of the would be perpetrators would be likely to make them think twice. Thats called 'evidence' and most criminals arent really excited about going to prison either. Most criminals are going to pass. SHOULD the eventual worst case scenario come about you have demonstrated an effort to resolve the situation without violence and created a defendable position in court as well. Your assertion that you are going to be 'beaten to a pulp' is certainly justification for opening fire.

Best case scenario would be to not put yourself in that situation in the first place. Given the scenario...that wasnt an option.

Far too many people who own guns on this forum think the first answer is to shoot. I think these scenerios are great mind games -- the closest most of us will ever get to being in a position where we even draw a gun, much less use it in self-defense. IMO, those posters who continually talk about their "right to shoot" had better hope they never get into a situation where that's needed. I think many of them would end up in jail.

Your advice, in my humble and uneducated opinion, is spot on. Has been throughout this thread.
 

CRUE CAB

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Best case scenario would be to not put yourself in that situation in the first place. Given the scenario...that wasnt an option.

Its always an option. I have stessed to many that before a fight even is thought about, dont look like a victim.
Dont walk looking down, walk up right, head up, shoulders back, looking around. Walk with purpose, dont shuffle around with your hands in your pockets looking down at your shoes oblivious to the world around you.
Situational awareness, spatial awareness. People look at you, look back at them. Let them know you see them, make them think twice if they have bad intent. Let them go after the guy that looks like he is no threat to fight back. The one that will drop his wallet and keys and run like a scared child.
You dont have to be Steven Segal, but if look like you have the mindset that you are ready if ready is needed. People wont usually mess with you.
 

CRUE CAB

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Far too many people who own guns on this forum think the first answer is to shoot. I think these scenerios are great mind games -- the closest most of us will ever get to being in a position where we even draw a gun, much less use it in self-defense. IMO, those posters who continually talk about their "right to shoot" had better hope they never get into a situation where that's needed. I think many of them would end up in jail.

Your advice, in my humble and uneducated opinion, is spot on. Has been throughout this thread.
The ones with the mindset to "continually talk about it" as you say, are the ones that are ready at the drop of a hat to defend self and family.
Not the ones that bought a gun, then if something happens starts to question themselves or not know what to do at all.
Once you have that mindset, its second nature.
 

VanceMack

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Its always an option. I have stessed to many that before a fight even is thought about, dont look like a victim.
Dont walk looking down, walk up right, head up, shoulders back, looking around. Walk with purpose, dont shuffle around with your hands in your pockets looking down at your shoes oblivious to the world around you.
Situational awareness, spatial awareness. People look at you, look back at them. Let them know you see them, make them think twice if they have bad intent. Let them go after the guy that looks like he is no threat to fight back. The one that will drop his wallet and keys and run like a scared child.
You dont have to be Steven Segal, but if look like you have the mindset that you are ready if ready is needed. People wont usually mess with you.
Ironic you make that statement since it is the ESSENCE of my response which you seem to have such a hard time with.
 
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