How People Treat Police

[reinoe]

They have loyalty to their fellow officers. Sometimes this loyalty is misplaced. However, it is understandable why people look the other way, not just in police work, but in other jobs as well.

There's more than 1% of cops looking the other way when they see bad police work. Your premise if flawed and ignorant.

 

[reinoe]

For every instance of police "abusing the citizenry" there's ten, fifty, a hundred instances of police doing their jobs perfectly fine, and saving lives at that. Just because there are a handful of assholes---just like in any other job---doesn't mean that all cops are bad, just like My Lai didn't mean that all soldiers were bad.

Police have a tendency to misplace their loyalty upon occasion. Is it any wonder, however, that they do, especially considering there are people like you who sit from the safety of your home, a safety which is guaranteed by the police, and call them monsters?

You seem to be operating under the assumption that whenever a police officer pulls someone over without killing them it means they "saved a life" and "protected someone". That's not how things work.

 

[Tigerace117]

There's more than 1% of cops looking the other way when they see bad police work. Your premise if flawed and ignorant.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that whenever a police officer pulls someone over without killing them it means they "saved a life" and "protected someone". That's not how things work.

Whenever police arrest someone---especially a person who had a history of violent crime---more likely than not they saved lives.

Not to mention hostage situations

 

[Bodi]

That is an extremely rare thing for a teacher. I dealt with plenty of knives and guns, but at a redneck school. They weren't for fighting. Did break up a couple of fights though. That wasn't stressful.

I taught in Richmond California which in the 90's had the distinction of being the murder capitol of the USA...

Sarcasm?

Pretty much always...

 

[reinoe]

Whenever police arrest someone---especially a person who had a history of violent crime---more likely than not they saved lives.

Not to mention hostage situations

So when a cop writes a ticket for jaywalking, more likely than not they've saved a life? What about for unpaid parking tickets? Are they saving lives or protecting people?

How about we go completely nuts...

When cops write a ticket for someone jumping over the turnstiles to the subway or pissing on a wall or noise complaints, are they saving lives and protecting people or are they enforcing "nuisance ordinances" that are designed to generate revenue?

Cops are at best enforcers of the law and at worst, glorified revenue generators for the municipality. Your diefication of these people should be embarrassing.

When you talk about "hostage situations" and "taking terrorists off the streets" your talking about situations where not only will that happen never in a cop's career, you're talking about the duties that overlap largely with the federal government. If you want to call the people at the FBI heroes then by all means do so. They're more competent, have higher standards of accountability, and deal with more high stakes situations.

 

[Bodi]

Once again, extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. Not to mention that under the same "lumping everybody together because of the actions of a few" one could make the case that "everyone who came into the US since 2001 should be deported since their all working with terrorists"

A more extreme example but it has the same leap in logic.

"Cops", as in average police officers that we are talking about... do not take down terrorists. Don't be ridiculous. :lol:

You seem to have some imaginary romantic version of cops floating around in your head where you are being mugged and cops come flying in and save people... that crap never happens, at least it happens so rarely as to be a non-issue. Cops come in, almost 100%, AFTER THE CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED and serve as mop up duty except for those generally very stupid police pursuits that they get in trying to stop a guy who has a small bag of weed on him.

 

[Tigerace117]

So when a cop writes a ticket for jaywalking, more likely than not they've saved a life? What about for unpaid parking tickets? Are they saving lives or protecting people?

How about we go completely nuts...

When cops write a ticket for someone jumping over the turnstiles to the subway or pissing on a wall or noise complaints, are they saving lives and protecting people or are they enforcing "nuisance ordinances" that are designed to generate revenue?

Cops are at best enforcers of the law and at worst, glorified revenue generators for the municipality. Your diefication of these people should be embarrassing.

When you talk about "hostage situations" and "taking terrorists off the streets" your talking about situations where not only will that happen never in a cop's career, you're talking about the duties that overlap largely with the federal government. If you want to call the people at the FBI heroes then by all means do so. They're more competent, have higher standards of accountability, and deal with more high stakes situations.

People don't go to jail for very long, if at all, for jaywalking. Same for unpaid parking tickets. When its something more serious like drug dealing or armed robbery, yeah, by taking those guys off the street the police save lives. On Monday a 17 year old kid who was a friend of a friend was murdered up in Norwood Park.

The people at the FBI are also still police---just better trained and with more responsiblities. Similarly to the difference between the regular military and the national guard.

Just because hostage situations are unlikely doesn't mean they never happen.

 

[Tigerace117]

"Cops", as in average police officers that we are talking about... do not take down terrorists. Don't be ridiculous. :lol:

You seem to have some imaginary romantic version of cops floating around in your head where you are being mugged and cops come flying in and save people... that crap never happens, at least it happens so rarely as to be a non-issue. Cops come in, almost 100%, AFTER THE CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED and serve as mop up duty except for those generally very stupid police pursuits that they get in trying to stop a guy who has a small bag of weed on him.

As I said earlier, a friend of a friend was murdered on Monday, and drugs were involved. So.....


Not to mention "mop up duty" helps get people justice even after the crime

 

[Bodi]

As I said earlier, a friend of a friend was murdered on Monday, and drugs were involved. So.....


Not to mention "mop up duty" helps get people justice even after the crime

Moving Goal Posts... your argument was "cops protect people". You have not defended this argument well other than to say that , heck, they protect people but so do others like firemen and architects. This is a debate site and not a 'hey, I have an opinion' site.

 

[Bodi]

People don't go to jail for very long, if at all, for jaywalking. Same for unpaid parking tickets. When its something more serious like drug dealing or armed robbery, yeah, by taking those guys off the street the police save lives. On Monday a 17 year old kid who was a friend of a friend was murdered up in Norwood Park.

The people at the FBI are also still police---just better trained and with more responsiblities. Similarly to the difference between the regular military and the national guard.

Just because hostage situations are unlikely doesn't mean they never happen.

All you have to do is simply change your statement to: "sometimes cops are able to protect people" and there would be no argument.

 

[Thrilla]

For every instance of police "abusing the citizenry" there's ten, fifty, a hundred instances of police doing their jobs perfectly fine, and saving lives at that. Just because there are a handful of assholes---just like in any other job---doesn't mean that all cops are bad, just like My Lai didn't mean that all soldiers were bad.

Police have a tendency to misplace their loyalty upon occasion. Is it any wonder, however, that they do, especially considering there are people like you who sit from the safety of your home, a safety which is guaranteed by the police, and call them monsters?

to the bolded... why do you believe your safety is guaranteed by the police?

and since when is anyone's safety guaranteed at all?

police aren't the saviors you are making them out to be... they are simply state agents who enforce the laws by arresting, citing, and helping prosecute suspected violators.
they don't protect us, they don't guarantee anyone's safety.... hell, when a persons safety is in jeopardy, 99.9 times out of 100, the cops are not there to do anything about it.

to the point that there are good cops and bad cops.. sure, that's true... unfortunately, the very nature of the police is not to be our friends or saviors.... they simply do the job of enforcing the laws put on the books by idiot politicians, and they abuse their power and privilege altogether too much... and they provide a necessary service.

there's no sense in believing police are evil, and there's no sense in believing they are saviors..... they are none of the above.

 

[SMTA]

Compensated generously? You mean at $15 an hour or so? And only after 5 years do they get pay bumps into 40k and so on? How much money do you actually think cops make?

What is the average annual salary for Police Patrol Officer? How much does a Police Patrol Officer make? The median annual Police Patrol Officer salary is $52,449, as of March 24, 2016, with a range usually between $43,683-$61,891, however this can vary widely depending on a variety of factors.

Police Patrol Officer Salaries and how key factors impact Police Patrol Officer Salaries - Salary.com

 

[blackjack50]

I taught in Richmond California which in the 90's had the distinction of being the murder capitol of the USA...



Pretty much always...

Rich wha? Richmond. Did you know coach carter? Like the real guy, not Sam Jackson.

 

[molten_dragon]

99% of police---- do their jobs excellently, save lives, help protect the community---most people shrug, occasionally thank them, otherwise ignore them.

1% of police---either are assholes or make one mistake---some people blame all police for them, talk trash about all police officers.

How is this different than any other profession? Most people are ignored when they do their jobs competently and only focused on when they screw up.

 

[Bodi]

Rich wha? Richmond. Did you know coach carter? Like the real guy, not Sam Jackson.

No. I should have said "near" and need to clarify that I taught at an expulsion school in Vallejo, CA which is very near Richmond but that we had many "students" shipped in from surrounding areas... primarily from Richmond so i would meet with police from the surrounding cities, including Richmond and meet parents in Richmond. I also taught there after Carter did so I never met him. Nobody talked about him either. We had our own problems that were far worse than he had to deal with. :lol: Kids with weapons, fights daily, gang instrusions onto campus and SWAT being called in, students killed (at parties, etc - many over the year), students committing suicide, a student put in a life long coma, kids put in prison, kids arrested on campus for drugs and weapons... it was kinda crazy.

 

[Tigerace117]

All you have to do is simply change your statement to: "sometimes cops are able to protect people" and there would be no argument.

Which, sometimes, they are able to do. True.

When they can't they make sure that justice is done, or at least attempt to.

 

[Bodi]

Which, sometimes, they are able to do. True.

When they can't they make sure that justice is done, or at least attempt to.

What in the hell are you even debating about anyway?

 

[reinoe]

How is this different than any other profession? Most people are ignored when they do their jobs competently and only focused on when they screw up.

Some people feel that cops are deities to be worshipped and never criticized. It's the same with some Muslims: anyone who criticizes Allah should be killed. That's the way folks like Tiger feel about police. Cops are to be treated like Gods.

 

[blackjack50]

Some people feel that cops are deities to be worshipped and never criticized. It's the same with some Muslims: anyone who criticizes Allah should be killed. That's the way folks like Tiger feel about police. Cops are to be treated like Gods.

And some people feel cops are the anti Christ, or lucifer himself,to be hated with all their being.

 

[Bodi]

And some people feel cops are the anti Christ, or lucifer himself,to be hated with all their being.

Some cops are... just look at this guy!

 

[reinoe]

Some cops are... just look at this guy!

I would give 0 ****s if the woman and her son were shot and killed. Would have done the world a favor.

 

[blackjack50]

Some cops are... just look at this guy!

Doesn't matter. That is like 1%. The particular poster I was talking too doesn't recognize that. Most cops are good guys and they put up with a lot of unacceptable behavior from people who are "old enough" to know better.

And then you have to consider that "book responses" don't cut it in a world where you don't know what the other guy has or is doing. Like when Cletus T Meth decides to claim the officer was using excessive force because "he hurt me when he pinned me down because I was resisting arrest." Or when a trespassing protestor knows they have a camera on them and they decide to act like a freak and be a crybaby and pretend the officer is "hurting them" and continually resist arrest to the point that they have to be tased (don't tase me bro?).

Most people don't understand the law enforcement IS a violent job. Maybe not extreme violence, but there is no other way to describe a job where you have to subdue an unruly suspect. And every crackhead knows to complain about "you are hurting me" in an age of cell phones so they can get sympathy. Remember the Swedish cops?

Did These Swedish Cops School The NYPD? - YouTube

Every cop all over the world has to put up with that crap:

 

[Baralis]

99% of police---- do their jobs excellently, save lives, help protect the community---most people shrug, occasionally thank them, otherwise ignore them.

1% of police---either are assholes or make one mistake---some people blame all police for them, talk trash about all police officers.

Some people are just flat out ungrateful.

Yet people still demonize all officers for the actions of a small minority, despite that service.

I think that perhaps you are misunderstanding public sentiment. The problems that plague our law enforcement are largely systemic and all encompassing. Many of the issues people have with LE are not limited to a mere 1% but the majority. I think anyone will agree that we have bad cops and good cops but that will happen with any profession. What we have issue with is even the good cops are trained to behave in problematic ways (brute force solutions to all problems, escalate situations when escalation could be avoided, ect).

 

[blackjack50]

I think that perhaps you are misunderstanding public sentiment. The problems that plague our law enforcement are largely systemic and all encompassing. Many of the issues people have with LE are not limited to a mere 1% but the majority. I think anyone will agree that we have bad cops and good cops but that will happen with any profession. What we have issue with is even the good cops are trained to behave in problematic ways (brute force solutions to all problems, escalate situations when escalation could be avoided, ect).

Officers have to be on guard at all times. If they aren't, they are worthless in the inevitable conflict that they will get into. They don't have to be UFC fighters. They have to be proficient enough to subdue someone without backup. And the problem is that it is hard to recruit people who are smart and physically and mentally able to meet the demands of the job.

The officer I just recently road with was not the best of fighters by his own admission. He said he didn't mind using his taser. And his reason was exactly that. He doesn't know what others can do. He was an excellent shooter (had killed someone who shot his partner), and he was ALWAYS on guard. The entire night I watched his behavior and he did not play. Even some fat out of shape slob he made sure he kept his hands OUT of his pockets, he checked the bathrooms at a pavilion he ate his dinner ate.

It is hard to expect negotiators for every patrolmen. You can only give so much training to an under funded department. They aren't the military. They don't have an unlimited budget and all the training time in the world. Many foot their own bill to be cops. You want to attract the people with the right stuff? You have to make it easier for them...or rather...less burdensome...to apply for the job.

Right now...if I apply...I could lose my job potentially. And then I can't pay rent. And I am the type of candidate that many talk about: college educated with big picture on the brain. And I have zero tolerance for corruption.

Ps

It would be nice if people would offer free psychology classes for officers. I think it would be beneficial.

 

[reinoe]

I think that perhaps you are misunderstanding public sentiment. The problems that plague our law enforcement are largely systemic and all encompassing. Many of the issues people have with LE are not limited to a mere 1% but the majority. I think anyone will agree that we have bad cops and good cops but that will happen with any profession. What we have issue with is even the good cops are trained to behave in problematic ways (brute force solutions to all problems, escalate situations when escalation could be avoided, ect).

Yep. The cop apologists gloss over the problems in Law Enforcement.
A cop's job is dangerous, but it's not among the most dangerous jobs in the country that apologists make it out to be.

A cop's job is stressful but every job is, so why is that even brought up?

More money/=better people. That is just not true. From high salaried CEO's to middle class managers to slave wage janitors, you can't throw money at systemic problems. And systemic problems that inflame outrage.

It's not the shootings, it's the coverups. It's the "if you see something, say something" b.s. that they don't live by that's inflaming outrage. It's the escalation of problems needlessly that's triggering protests. You can talk about "heat of the moment" all you want, but after the incidents there's no excuses for the constant lies on police reports. That's not a matter of "heat of the moment" decision making, that's just flat out lying. People go to jail for filing false police reports.