How much of what happened was due to direct, active complicity by law enforcement?

[Shrink726]

Full disclosure; I'm about as far from a conspiracy theorist as anyone in this world but the absolutely STUNNING failure of law enforcement to respond to the events unfolding in the Capital last Wed. suggests that there may well have been a plan or at least an agreement to let this go on unfettered by aggressive interference by the authorities. A couple of points...
1) Nothing that occurred was unexpected or not telegraphed for weeks in advance
2) Even if one was to assume there was a surprise aspect to these events, there was virtually no response for hours in a city with arguably the largest LE presence in the United States
My thinking is that Donald J. Simpleton put the word out (though surrogates, of course) to hogtie LE and let "his patriots" have their day.

This horror simply could not have occurred as it did without some form of assistance from very high places.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Full disclosure; I'm about as far from a conspiracy theorist as anyone in this world but the absolutely STUNNING failure of law enforcement to respond to the events unfolding in the Capital last Wed. suggests that there may well have been a plan or at least an agreement to let this go on unfettered by aggressive interference by the authorities. A couple of points...
1) Nothing that occurred was unexpected or not telegraphed for weeks in advance
2) Even if one was to assume there was a surprise aspect to these events, there was virtually no response for hours in a city with arguably the largest LE presence in the United States
My thinking is that Donald J. Simpleton put the word out (though surrogates, of course) to hogtie LE and let "his patriots" have their day.

This horror simply could not have occurred as it did without some form of assistance from very high places.

I agree with this totally. The 1.5 hour delay from the DOD is the first evidence of this. While I agree this hypothesis sounds far fetched, Trump has done plenty of things that are far fetched. The possibility that there were people inside the Capitol PD and even a few in congress is not off the table. The MD governor gave a perfect timeline as to what happened with his state when asked for help from the DC mayor.

I believe the investigations will uncover things that we may never be able to believe. And if they do, the donald needs to prosecuted to the fullest extent.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

I don't think Trump directly had anything to do with the LE's slow, weak, pitiful response. I think over the next few months we're going to find out that many people in LE's AND the military simply agree with Trump's bigoted hateful message AND believe Qanon conspiracies that all Dems are satan worshippers and traffic kids for sex..

So they simply stepped aside and took their time arresting rioters and clearing out the buildings..

We're finding out everyday that many rioters were off duty cops, retired cops, military personal. Hell many of the Capitol police probably wished they were rioting arm in arm with their fellow QAnon 'brothers and sisters'.

 

[The AntiDonald]

I don't think Trump directly had anything to do with the LE's slow, weak, pitiful response. I think over the next few months we're going to find out that many people in LE's AND the military simply agree with Trump's bigoted hateful message AND believe Qanon conspiracies that all Dems are satan worshippers and traffic kids for sex..

So they simply stepped aside and took their time arresting rioters and clearing out the buildings..

We're finding out everyday that many rioters were off duty cops, retired cops, military personal. Hell many of the Capitol police probably wished they were rioting arm in arm with their fellow QAnon 'brothers and sisters'.

The only problem with that is your first half kind of says he was involved. It's because of Trumps continuous rants and lies about election fraud that brought all this to a frenzy. Without Trump and his deplorable lawyers spewing false conspiracy theories, this would never have become what it did.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

The only problem with that is your first half kind of says he was involved. It's because of Trumps continuous rants and lies about election fraud that brought all this to a frenzy. Without Trump and his deplorable lawyers spewing false conspiracy theories, this would never have become what it did.

Yes Trump and Rudy's lies and rants most definitely caused the riots and deaths. I'm just saying the pitiful and slow response initially was because many LE's there at the time it started agreed with the rioters and Trump's lies..

Cops were taking selfies inside the buildings with the rioters. Supposedly some cops straight out told the protestors they agreed with what they were doing..

 

[Slartibartfast]

Full disclosure; I'm about as far from a conspiracy theorist as anyone in this world but the absolutely STUNNING failure of law enforcement to respond to the events unfolding in the Capital last Wed. suggests that there may well have been a plan or at least an agreement to let this go on unfettered by aggressive interference by the authorities. A couple of points...
1) Nothing that occurred was unexpected or not telegraphed for weeks in advance
2) Even if one was to assume there was a surprise aspect to these events, there was virtually no response for hours in a city with arguably the largest LE presence in the United States
My thinking is that Donald J. Simpleton put the word out (though surrogates, of course) to hogtie LE and let "his patriots" have their day.

This horror simply could not have occurred as it did without some form of assistance from very high places.

This is what I want to know. If there were law enforcement or military in this that acted in any way to help the insurrectionists, they need to face consequences.

 

[bluesmoke]

There does not need to be conspiracy for a group that thinks alike to act alike and there are not enough good apples to keep the whole barrel from spoiling.

 

[ttwtt78640]

This is what I want to know. If there were law enforcement or military in this that acted in any way to help the insurrectionists, they need to face consequences.

I agree, and would extend that to any government official or agent (e.g. a city mayor) who issued a ‘stand down’ order to LEOs in any rioting, looting and/or arson event.

 

[X Factor]

Good grief, many on the left spent all last year trying to ban, basically, any “crowd control” measures from police and now want to blame police for not using strong or enough crowd control measures?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Good grief, many on the left spent all last year trying to ban, basically, any “crowd control” measures from police and now want to blame police for not using strong or enough crowd control measures?

Yep, because those riots (often lasting many days) were described as “mostly peaceful protests” and related to SJW and/or BLM causes.

 

[Evilroddy]

I don't know, but I hope a thorough investigation and time will reveal a better picture of what happened. No scapegoating please but a full and fair investigation is needed and it should be made public after the fact with no redaction.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy

 

[Indlib]

I don't think Trump directly had anything to do with the LE's slow, weak, pitiful response. I think over the next few months we're going to find out that many people in LE's AND the military simply agree with Trump's bigoted hateful message AND believe Qanon conspiracies that all Dems are satan worshippers and traffic kids for sex..

So they simply stepped aside and took their time arresting rioters and clearing out the buildings..

We're finding out everyday that many rioters were off duty cops, retired cops, military personal. Hell many of the Capitol police probably wished they were rioting arm in arm with their fellow QAnon 'brothers and sisters'.

While I agree with you that this likely applies to isolated instances of on the ground confrontations, it still doesn't explain the total lack of planning and the delay in national guard activation.

 

[JMB802]

There are some Capitol police officers who have voiced their opinions about this. I also posted this article in Breaking News Non-MSM.

These Black Capitol Police Officers Describe Fighting Off "Racist-Ass Terrorists"

Two Black officers told BuzzFeed News that their chief and other upper management left them totally unprepared and were nowhere to be found on the day.

www.buzzfeednews.com

The officer said that while the department’s upper management had been telling them to prepare for Wednesday’s storming of the Capitol like they would for any other protest, that Instagram post sent a clear message: this wasn’t going to be just some kind of free speech protest, this was going to be a fight.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

POLITICSMILITARY
Retired brigadier general says Trump loyalists in military need rooting out


One of my bigger concerns is that there has long been a strong Trump following in the military. People in the military have every right to be conservative or extremely conservative. But Trump’s supporters in the military who think that what happened [on Jan. 6] was a good thing need to be managed out of the military as soon as possible. That probably won’t happen until the Trump loyalists are out, but that needs to be done. We’re not talking about half a dozen people. We’re probably talking about thousands across the Department of Defense. Many of them will have already run their mouth, put things on social media. But this was an insurgency, a crime against the state. And it’s a duty obligation of the defense leadership to make sure that there are no, essentially, sleeper cells, people in the military who, for whatever reason, think an insurgency is a good idea or justifiable.

Retired brigadier general says Trump loyalists in military need rooting out

Thomas Kolditz, a retired Army brigadier general who has taught leadership at West Point and the Yale School of Management, says thousands across the Defense Dept support Donald Trump.

fortune.com

 

[What if...?]

Good grief, many on the left spent all last year trying to ban, basically, any “crowd control” measures from police and now want to blame police for not using strong or enough crowd control measures?

You're gonna have a problem here regardless of what you do.

BLM never "protested" by assaulting the Capitol as the last step to putting an end to the trump fiasco was in progress.

There's a scale thing you'll never get past.

Plus, you all get to see how your mostly peaceful protest has been branded an insurrection because a few got out of control.

Your "protest" looks so much like a little microcosm of last summer that it's problematic for you. If there had been a fire it would have been close to one to one.

And raiding the Capitol trumps a whole lot of civil disobedience. And nothing will ever change that. Your ruckus just became the thing history will remember most.

 

[JMB802]

Your ruckus just became the thing history will remember most.

Truth.

 

[joko104]

Full disclosure; I'm about as far from a conspiracy theorist as anyone in this world but the absolutely STUNNING failure of law enforcement to respond to the events unfolding in the Capital last Wed. suggests that there may well have been a plan or at least an agreement to let this go on unfettered by aggressive interference by the authorities. A couple of points...
1) Nothing that occurred was unexpected or not telegraphed for weeks in advance
2) Even if one was to assume there was a surprise aspect to these events, there was virtually no response for hours in a city with arguably the largest LE presence in the United States
My thinking is that Donald J. Simpleton put the word out (though surrogates, of course) to hogtie LE and let "his patriots" have their day.

This horror simply could not have occurred as it did without some form of assistance from very high places.

There are 2000 Capital police, run by Congress and not the president. He has no authority or influence over the Capital Police. Pelosi and McConnell do.

It is only TDS leading anyone to think it was "Donald J Simpleton" - when he's not the simpleton. The "high places" were in Congress itself, not the president.

 

[What if...?]

Yep, because those riots (often lasting many days) were described as “mostly peaceful protests” and related to SJW and/or BLM causes.

That's the problem here. What we saw at the Capitol is what was actually seen all summer. Mostly peaceful (as civil disobedience ever is) with a few getting out of control or using the protest as cover to vandalize or loot.

There's a lesson in this, but the trump faction will never be able to see it.

Because they saw a different summer of protest than the rest of the world did. One built of rhetoric and editing and repetition. To listen to any talk radio conservative there are cities in ruin all.over the country where the residents are still huddled in their homes praying for the safety of their children.

They honestly believe that what we saw in DC was what America saw all summer. That their protest was much less of a big deal than the horrors visited nonstop all summer long.

This is what happens when scientific lying is perfectly protected by the constitution.

 

[X Factor]

Yep, because those riots (often lasting many days) were described as “mostly peaceful protests” and related to SJW and/or BLM causes.

And this is why reactionary rules and laws are rarely a good idea.

You're gonna have a problem here regardless of what you do.

BLM never "protested" by assaulting the Capitol as the last step to putting an end to the trump fiasco was in progress.

There's a scale thing you'll never get past.

Plus, you all get to see how your mostly peaceful protest has been branded an insurrection because a few got out of control.

Your "protest" looks so much like a little microcosm of last summer that it's problematic for you. If there had been a fire it would have been close to one to one.

And raiding the Capitol trumps a whole lot of civil disobedience. And nothing will ever change that. Your ruckus just became the thing history will remember most.

I thought you supported “mostly peaceful” protests?

 

[ttwtt78640]

That's the problem here. What we saw at the Capitol is what was actually seen all summer. Mostly peaceful (as civil disobedience ever is) with a few getting out of control or using the protest as cover to vandalize or loot.

There's a lesson in this, but the trump faction will never be able to see it.

Because they saw a different summer of protest than the rest of the world did. One built of rhetoric and editing and repetition. To listen to any talk radio conservative there are cities in ruin all.over the country where the residents are still huddled in their homes praying for the safety of their children.

They honestly believe that what we saw in DC was what America saw all summer. That their protest was much less of a big deal than the horrors visited nonstop all summer long.

This is what happens when scientific lying is perfectly protected by the constitution.

I’m doubt that most (even on the right) see it as less of a big deal (as any single SJW or BLM based riot), but see it as less than the combined impact of those (leftist excused?) riots. After all, the Capitol ‘invasion’ lasted a few hours and the property damage was confined to a single public building, while the other riots (combined) lasted far longer and impacted much larger areas - often completely destroying entire city blocks thus putting many out of work (or business) for months.

 

[swing_voter]

I read somewhere that cops remove barricades at a certain point to prevent the rioters from using the barricades as weapons or battering rams.

 

[JMB802]

There are 2000 Capital police, run by Congress and not the president. He has no authority or influence over the Capital Police. Pelosi and McConnell do.

It is only TDS leading anyone to think it was "Donald J Simpleton" - when he's not the simpleton. The "high places" were in Congress itself, not the president.

It's delusion to think that the defense of the Capitol is accomplished solely via a free-standing LE vacuum.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Capitol Police turned down help from FBI, National Guard before siege

Capitol Police turned down help from FBI, National Guard before siege

The US Capitol Police refused to accept help from the FBI and National Guard before President Trump’s supporters stormed the Capitol, according to a report. The Pentagon offered Sunday to sen…

nypost.com

The US Capitol Police refused to accept help from the FBI and National Guard before President Trump’s supporters stormed the Capitol, according to a report.
The Pentagon offered Sunday to send guardsmen to help secure the perimeter and the Justice Department offered FBI help on Wednesday as the mob arrived, according to The Associated Press. Both offers were rejected.

Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy said that as the rioting was underway, it became clear that the Capitol Police were overrun. But he said there was no contingency planning done in advance for what forces could do in case of a problem at the Capitol because Defense Department help was turned down. “They’ve got to ask us, the request has to come to us,” said McCarthy.

 

[What if...?]

And this is why reactionary rules and laws are rarely a good idea.


I thought you supported “mostly peaceful” protests?

If you look, I've been saying that this protest was mostly peaceful. I even pointed out that the BLM movement has been complaining about outside agitators, vandalism tourists, etc all along.

It was bullshit when we said it, but perfectly plausible when your media tried to pin it on antifa. And failed, as the guy they were sure was antifa is like a retired colonel or some such.and the woman who was shot an over the top Qanon person. And of course there were outside agitators arrested by police at BLM protests.

 

[calamity]

Full disclosure; I'm about as far from a conspiracy theorist as anyone in this world but the absolutely STUNNING failure of law enforcement to respond to the events unfolding in the Capital last Wed. suggests that there may well have been a plan or at least an agreement to let this go on unfettered by aggressive interference by the authorities. A couple of points...
1) Nothing that occurred was unexpected or not telegraphed for weeks in advance
2) Even if one was to assume there was a surprise aspect to these events, there was virtually no response for hours in a city with arguably the largest LE presence in the United States
My thinking is that Donald J. Simpleton put the word out (though surrogates, of course) to hogtie LE and let "his patriots" have their day.

This horror simply could not have occurred as it did without some form of assistance from very high places.

The plot began in December when Trump fired top leaders in the Pentagon and replaced them with stooges.