Homosexuls Piggy-Backing Civil Rights Movement

[CaptainCourtesy]

Moderator's Warning:

Poll added per request.

 

[McTojo]

McTojo, can you get back on topic please? This is really interesting and I would like to continue, but this is not the correct thread. If you want to discuss this issue, start your own thread, I am tired of filtering through you and Hatuey's stuff in an effort to read what people might be thinking about Homosexuls Piggy-Backing Civil Rights Movement

John, you brought up the civil rights movement, and so quite naturally I needed to defend its tenets against those who would wish to mar its legacy.

Homosexuality is a deviation; a persons sexual orientation which has nothing to do with "basic human rights," but more of a group of people forcing their view of sexuality/and way of life upon the masses irrespective of those people's own idea of what sexuality should be. I don't care if you love men and I am not interested in learning about what goes on under your roof, either. I just think the civil rights movement needs to be left out of it.

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

It is extremely unfortunate that we had/have to create additional laws to enforce the principles of universal equality expressed by the Founding Fathers in the Declaration of Independence. The 'we suffered more so we deserve more' mentality is ridiculous and bigoted especially when it is directly responsible for placing a roadblock on the path to universal equality. The homosexual community IS NOT "piggy-backing" anything. The foundation of our movement to gain equality was/is based on tragedies within OUR OWN community and injustices commited against US.

 

[Misfit]

Odd question. A better question would be is there any real reason to deny homosexuals the same rights afforded those i the civil rights movement? I see none.

 

[BodiSatva]

That is not a better question...
That is just a different question.

 

[McTojo]

Ah you will obviously agree that it was not the white man who made a black man pick up a gun and kill another black man.

I need to rebut this assertion Mr. OP then I'll leave this thread alone.

Sure, if we are talking in semantics, and we wanted to detach everything ever wronged against our people by whites, then blame ourselves for every single short coming, then so be it:
1) I guess slavery was our fault too because our own people were just as responsible for slavery as their oppressors....( no black quater masters were driving those ships).
2) Jim Crow Law which lasted for decades had no effect on blacks at all. I guess we wrote our own legistation to hold ourselves back, sounds good to me.( a system which worked against blacks in every social sphere)
3) I guess we chose to live in ghettos and we chose to work minimum wage because we wanted to, not because we lacked under funded schools, or college tuition assistants, or maybe because cleaning toilets was the only job a single mother could get at that time. I guess we were lazy Hatsuey...I guess after picking cotton and tilling soil for centuries-- for free--without ever getting anything for it, not even a single wage, and being called N%#ger your whole life while only having a 3rd grade education would have done wonders for the psyche, maybe you would think for a bit that " damn what gives"?
4) Slavery was a multi-billion dollar business for hundreds of years. America was built off the backs of free labor(slaves) and made vast sums of money of which you ancestors received none, not even to this day. And since the last slave died forty years ago that exonerated every white person in America of wrongs committed against our people---Ooops, their dead too.

 

[Misfit]

That is not a better question...
That is just a different question.

I think it's a better one as using piggybacking as a discripter is inaccurate and just plain silly.

 

[TheHarshTruth]

What's surprising are the best army's in the world of ancient times were flaming gays. Now however the army has this policy against them. Guess it's just army intelligence with sky fairy backing at work once again.

 

[BodiSatva]

Misfits
I think it's a better one as using piggybacking as a discripter is inaccurate and just plain silly.

That is fine...I disagree.

 

[Misfit]

That is fine...I disagree.

You can do that. But I still see no reason to discriminate based on sexual preference of adult non-related human beings. Do you?

 

[BodiSatva]

Misfits
You can do that. But I still see no reason to discriminate based on sexual preference of adult non-related human beings. Do you?

Thank you for accepting this fact. :2razz:

Is anybody here advocating discrimination "based on sexual preference"?

 

[Hatuey]

I need to rebut this assertion Mr. OP then I'll leave this thread alone.

Yeah sorry I haven't awnsered I had to go up to Canada for a minute lol.

Sure, if we are talking in semantics, and we wanted to detach everything ever wronged against our people by whites, then blame ourselves for every single short coming, then so be it:

See what you understand is that I'm not saying that we must blame ourselves for every short coming. I'm simply stating that in this day and age black youth have an opportunity our ancestors never had. I've debated this with Caine for a while and realized he is right in the sense that our youth(black population under 30) today have no excuse for choosing to pick up a basketball instead of a book.

1) I guess slavery was our fault too because our own people were just as responsible for slavery as their oppressors....( no black quater masters were driving those ships).
2) Jim Crow Law which lasted for decades had no effect on blacks at all. I guess we wrote our own legistation to hold ourselves back, sounds good to me.( a system which worked against blacks in every social sphere)

You're being melodramatic.

3) I guess we chose to live in ghettos and we chose to work minimum wage because we wanted to, not because we lacked under funded schools, or college tuition assistants, or maybe because cleaning toilets was the only job a single mother could get at that time. I guess we were lazy Hatsuey...I guess after picking cotton and tilling soil for centuries-- for free--without ever getting anything for it, not even a single wage, and being called N%#ger your whole life while only having a 3rd grade education would have done wonders for the psyche, maybe you would think for a bit that " damn what gives"?

We dont choose to live in ghettos. Black people choose to stay in them. There is a very big difference.

4) Slavery was a multi-billion dollar business for hundreds of years. America was built off the backs of free labor(slaves) and made vast sums of money of which you ancestors received none, not even to this day. And since the last slave died forty years ago that exonerated every white person in America of wrongs committed against our people---Ooops, their dead too.

Finally you've made one point or have atleast come close to one. This country was built on the backs of our ancestors and it ows us big for it. However I dont believe my next door white neighbours ows me anything anymore then Stinger or Goobieman do. I dont blame them for whatever happened 200 years ago. You can't blame todays people for the wrongs commited by their ancestors anymore then you can't blame a german 6 year old for the wrongs his great grandfather might have commited in WWII.

 

[Misfit]

Thank you for accepting this fact. :2razz:

Is anybody here advocating discrimination "based on sexual preference"?

If you are denying them the right to marry, and some are advocating this, then there is discrimination based on sexual preference.

 

[BodiSatva]

Misfits
If you are denying them the right to marry, and some are advocating this, then there is discrimination based on sexual preference.

I guess that I missed that post(s) then. No, there are ZERO legitimate reasons to deny homosexuals the right to marry. No tax reasons. No lawful reasons. Only Religious reasons. I do not think that those reasons merit serious discussion AT ALL.

 

[Flea]

I see Homosexuls as Piggy-Backing Civil Rights Movement. I see this because it is what I have heard many say. They have made direct parallels to the Civil Rights Movement.

 

[TheHarshTruth]

I see Homosexuls as Piggy-Backing Civil Rights Movement. I see this because it is what I have heard many say. They have made direct parallels to the Civil Rights Movement.

And so they should until they get treated fairly.

 

[Hatuey]

And so they should until they get treated fairly.

I think one must make the distinction between "Piggy-backing" the civil rights movement and using it to help your case. I dont have a problem with homosexuals using the civil rights movement to help make their case. I do have a problem with somebody saying that the situations are the same. They can be compared but they are by no means the same.

 

[Misfit]

I think one must make the distinction between "Piggy-backing" the civil rights movement and using it to help your case. I dont have a problem with homosexuals using the civil rights movement to help make their case. I do have a problem with somebody saying that the situations are the same. They can be compared but they are by no means the same.

How are they different?

 

[1069]

I think one must make the distinction between "Piggy-backing" the civil rights movement and using it to help your case. I dont have a problem with homosexuals using the civil rights movement to help make their case. I do have a problem with somebody saying that the situations are the same. They can be compared but they are by no means the same.

If the civil rights movement paved the way to a more just and equitable society in general, if it empowered other other oppressed minorities to fight for equal rights, then I would think the leaders of the movement would be proud.
If they would not, then they are not the men and women I thought they were.

 

[Hatuey]

How are they different?

Well for one gay people aren't being hosed down in the streets of Alabama. I dont see 100s of gay kids being sent to jail for protesting the current goverment's stance on gays and most of all I dont see entire mobs of straight people lynching gays. On the other hand. I see gay people on T.V. showing straight people how to dress and cook and what music to litsen to; Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'Donnell speaking their minds on the current gay-marriage related issues; Oprah Winfrey doing shows on what gay kids had to suffer. Trust me. The situation can be compared but it's by no means the same.

 

[Hatuey]

If the civil rights movement paved the way to a more just and equitable society in general, if it empowered other other oppressed minorities to fight for equal rights, then I would think the leaders of the movement would be proud.
If they would not, then they are not the men and women I thought they were.

You dont understand what I'm trying to say. I'm not stating that the civil rights movement wasn't ment to help all minorities in this country. I'm simply saying that you can't say the situation gays are dealing with today is the same as what black people had to deal with. It's just not the same thing. They can be compared but they are not the same.

 

[TheHarshTruth]

I think one must make the distinction between "Piggy-backing" the civil rights movement and using it to help your case. I dont have a problem with homosexuals using the civil rights movement to help make their case. I do have a problem with somebody saying that the situations are the same. They can be compared but they are by no means the same.

I agree. They aren't the same. Still they do have civil rights and in my opinion should take advantage of the good work already in place.

 

[Misfit]

Well for one gay people aren't being hosed down in the streets of Alabama. I dont see 100s of gay kids being sent to jail for protesting the current goverment's stance on gays and most of all I dont see entire mobs of straight people lynching gays. On the other hand. I see gay people on T.V. showing straight people how to dress and cook and what music to litsen to; Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'Donnell speaking their minds on the current gay-marriage related issues; Oprah Winfrey doing shows on what gay kids had to suffer. Trust me. The situation can be compared but it's by no means the same.

Really. Well, we have seen gay people killed by folks who didn't like 'em. And there were people of color on TV and doing similar things before civil rights. Stars even had minorities over to dinner. But these things speak more to how things are handled in society and not the actual discrimination. I mean, this says we driscriminate nicer today and not that we don't discriminate. In other words, civil rights wouldn't been been needed if we'd just discriminated less mean.

I would say that the key to the comparison is that both are in fact discriminated against, and that both have been hurt by the discrimination.

 

[Hatuey]

Really. Well, we have seen gay people killed by folks who didn't like 'em. And there were people of color on TV and doing similar things before civil rights. Stars even had minorities over to dinner. But these things speak more to how things are handled in society and not the actual discrimination. I mean, this says we driscriminate nicer today and not that we don't discriminate. In other words, civil rights wouldn't been been needed if we'd just discriminated less mean.

I would say that the key to the comparison is that both are in fact discriminated against, and that both have been hurt by the discrimination.

The scales at which gays are discriminated against is nowhere near the scale blacks in this country were discriminated against. Being gay doesn't stop people from hiring you. Most people dont care if you're gay and you can pretty much sue anybody who tries to make an issue out of your sexuality. 70 years ago being black ment you were going to be discriminated against from all sides of the field. Your kids would be discriminated against, you would be discriminated against. It didn't matter if you were the best at what you did. If your skin had even the slightest hint of brown in it. You were going to be discriminated against and there was nothing you could about it. Like I said. They can be compared but they are not the same.

 

[Misfit]

The scales at which gays are discriminated against is nowhere near the scale blacks in this country were discriminated against. Being gay doesn't stop people from hiring you. Most people dont care if you're gay and you can pretty much sue anybody who tries to make an issue out of your sexuality. 70 years ago being black ment you were going to be discriminated against from all sides of the field. Your kids would be discriminated against, you would be discriminated against. It didn't matter if you were the best at what you did. If your skin had even the slightest hint of brown in it. You were going to be discriminated against and there was nothing you could about it. Like I said. They can be compared but they are not the same.

Are you sure it doesn't stop people from hiring you? There's no law that says it can't. How many can serve in the military, openly? How many can marry the person they love? How well are they accepted on the police force? The fire department? A poor fellow I read about in the news a few years ago was beat to death because he was holding his wife's purse and some people thougth he was gay.

All you are saying is that we were worse over color. I'm saying a who got treated worse arguement means nothing. The problem is still the same.