Homosexuls Piggy-Backing Civil Rights Movement

[Flea]

Is it OK for Homosexuls to Piggy-Back the Civil Rights Movement in an effort to gain more rights?

I am torn between thinking that it is OK and that it is NOT.

I have yet to hear from any African-Americans that feel that it is Acceptable. In fact, almost all that I have ever listened to claim that it is an insult to attempt to lump the two together.

Your thoughts?

 

[Hatuey]

Is it OK for Homosexuls to Piggy-Back the Civil Rights Movement in an effort to gain more rights?

I am torn between thinking that it is OK and that it is NOT.

I have yet to hear from any African-Americans that feel that it is Acceptable. In fact, almost all that I have ever listened to claim that it is an insult to attempt to lump the two together.

Your thoughts?

Depends on how you look at it. When it comes to gays fighting for their rightful place in our society. Then I can see the comparison between gay rights groups and the civil rights movement. When it comes to the current discrimination of gays being portrayed in the same manner as what blacks had to go in this country before the civil rights movement. It's a big bowl of salty *** chips without any water. Most of my gay friends enjoy high qualities of life. They feel discriminated against in some instances because of their sexual orientations but take refuge in the fact that it's a dying trend.

PS: I hope to go on record as the first black guy you've met who belives being gay is acceptable. It's none of my business what other people do in their bedrooms and it's none of theirs what I do in mine.

 

[Flea]

Originally Posted by Hateuy
When it comes to the current discrimination of gays being portrayed in the same manner as what blacks had to go in this country before the civil rights movement.

This is a good point, and one that I meant to address. The comparison of gays today and the struggles of African Americans from our history.

 

[Hatuey]

This is a good point, and one that I meant to address. The comparison of gays today and the struggles of African Americans from our history.

I feel that african americans during the days of the civil rights movement were discriminated against from all sides. Socially, Economically and Culturally. I think gays are only discriminated against on certain sides of the spectrum. On others they are praised and admired. Take for example television. You see shows like Ellen Degeneres and Queer Eye and you have gay oriented television channels and stores made explicitly for gay couples. To truly be able to compare the level of discrimination gays face today to that of the one seen by blacks pre-civil rights movement all of these things would have to disappear.

 

[McTojo]

Depends on how you look at it. When it comes to gays fighting for their rightful place in our society. Then I can see the comparison between gay rights groups and the civil rights movement. When it comes to the current discrimination of gays being portrayed in the same manner as what blacks had to go in this country before the civil rights movement. It's a big bowl of salty *** chips without any water. Most of my gay friends enjoy high qualities of life. They feel discriminated against in some instances because of their sexual orientations but take refuge in the fact that it's a dying trend.

PS: I hope to go on record as the first black guy you've met who belives being gay is acceptable. It's none of my business what other people do in their bedrooms and it's none of theirs what I do in mine.

Are you a black guy ? You sound like you forgot where you came from...

Since 1952, the year the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed segregation, people have been trying to take advantage of the Civil rights Movement. What people don't realize, however, is that blacks had to struggle for human dignity for three hundred years prior to 1952 because equal rights without desegregation could not and would not have worked.

The Civil Rights Movement was about Blacks' humanity and human dignity, not about somebody's sexual 'recognition and orientation' in a society that was founded on Christian principles where it is taught that a man shall be betwixt unto a woman and the two shall become one flesh.

I think people are loosing the point here. The Civil Rights Movement was not intended to be a stepping stone for gays/lesbians and any other race of people. The Civil Rights Movement served as a testament of black peoples resolve to work together and fight together in a nation full of racial bigotry. We shouldn't be discussing how the gays should be using it.

Gays and lesbians do face discrimination and they do have their fair share of hostility, but that is a far cry in comparison to what millions of Blacks in America went through in order to attain Civil Rights in America.

 

[Hatuey]

Are you a black guy ? You sound like you forgot where you came from...

Since 1952, the year the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed segregation, people have been trying to take advantage of the Civil rights Movement. What people don't realize, however, is that blacks had to struggle for human dignity for three hundred years prior to 1952 because equal rights without desegregation could not and would not have worked.

The Civil Rights Movement was about Blacks' humanity and human dignity, not about somebody's sexual 'recognition and orientation' in a society that was founded on Christian principles where it is taught that a man shall be betwixt unto a woman and the two shall become one flesh.

I think people are loosing the point here. The Civil Rights Movement was not intended to be a stepping stone for gays/lesbians and any other race of people. The Civil Rights Movement served as a testament of black peoples resolve to work together and fight together in a nation full of racial bigotry. We shouldn't be discussing how the gays should be using it.

Gays and lesbians do face discrimination and they do have their fair share of hostility, but that is a far cry in comparison to what millions of Blacks in America went through in order to attain Civil Rights in America.

One can make the argument that gays were being discriminated against centuries before blacks even made it to America and have been struggling for acceptance for longer then any other group other then women has. I never said the situations were the same but I can see how they can be compared.

I stated that when it comes to gays finding acceptance in our society the situations look almost identical. One group being discriminated against for something they are born with. I never stated the levels of discrimination are the same though.

 

[TheHarshTruth]

If their rights are being violated they have the right to use laws to defend themselves. And just because the thought of what homosexuals do with their mouths and such makes me want to puke doesn't make what they do wrong.

 

[McTojo]

One can make the argument that gays were being discriminated against centuries before blacks even made it to America and have been struggling for acceptance for longer then any other group other then women has. I never said the situations were the same but I can see how they can be compared.

I stated that when it comes to gays finding acceptance in our society the situations look almost identical. One group being discriminated against for something they are born with. I never stated the levels of discrimination are the same though.

One can also make the argument that darker skinned people were being discriminated against centuries before humanity ever made it to the human conscience of the lighter skinned people. But that would be dumbing-down the point I was driving at earlier, wouldn't it ?

The point is, is that too many people have been using the Civil Rights Movement in the most shameful of ways e.g., Gays want to be recognized, illegal immigrants want the same rights as legal citizens, and so on.

Sure there are certain similarities but that's when it stops. There should be no discussion about how Civil Rights plays in with Gay Rights.

 

[Hatuey]

One can also make the argument that darker skinned people were being discriminated against centuries before humanity ever made it to the human conscience of the lighter skinned people. But that would be dumbing-down the point I was driving at earlier, wouldn't it ?

The point is, is that too many people have been using the Civil Rights Movement in the most shameful of ways e.g., Gays want to be recognized, illegal immigrants want the same rights as legal citizens, and so on.

Sure there are certain similarities but that's when it stops. There should be no discussion about how Civil Rights plays in with Gay Rights.

I dont disagree with this. However gay rights fits into civil rights perfecly. The civil rights movement was not just about "black" men being the same as "white" men. It was about all men being equal. Regardless of who they are, what they workship or who they live with.

 

[Flea]

Originally Posted by McTojo
I think people are loosing the point here. NO. I am assuming that people know what the heck the Civil Rights Movement was here, just to let you know.

The Civil Rights Movement was not intended to be a stepping stone for gays/lesbians and any other race of people. The Civil Rights Movement served as a testament of black peoples resolve to work together and fight together in a nation full of racial bigotry. We shouldn't be discussing how the gays should be using it.

Hence my question...Is it OK for Homosexuls to Piggy-Back the Civil Rights Movement in an effort to gain more rights?

Originally Posted by McTojo
The point is, is that too many people have been using the Civil Rights Movement in the most shameful of ways e.g., Gays want to be recognized, illegal immigrants want the same rights as legal citizens, and so on.

We know that this is the point, and it appears that you think that it is Not appropriate. Is this correct?

Originally Posted by McTojo
One can also make the argument that darker skinned people were being discriminated against centuries before humanity ever made it to the human conscience of the lighter skinned people.

You may think that this is "Dumbing it Down" but I am intrigued to hear how this is an accurate analogy, since it seems to make no sense to me at this time.

 

[McTojo]

I dont disagree with this. However gay rights fits into civil rights perfecly. The civil rights movement was not just about "black" men being the same as "white" men. It was about all men being equal. Regardless of who they are, what they workship or who they live with.

Civil Rights Movement in the United States, political, legal, and social struggle to gain full citizenship rights for black Americans and to achieve racial equality. The civil rights movement was first and foremost a challenge to segregation, the system of laws and customs separating blacks and whites that whites used to control blacks after slavery was abolished in the 1860s. During the civil rights movement, individuals and civil rights organizations challenged segregation and discrimination with a variety of activities, including protest marches, boycotts, and refusal to abide by segregation laws. Many believe that the movement began with the Montgomery bus boycott in 1955 and ended with the Voting Rights Act of 1965, though there is debate about when it began and whether it has ended yet. The civil rights movement has also been called the Black Freedom Movement, the Negro Revolution, and the Second Reconstruction.MicrosoftR EncartaR Reference Library 2002. c 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

So now that we've cleared the air out of the room, and we have removed any misunderstanding on this topic, we can move forward.

The premise of the Civil Rights Movement was in principle for the "black" man/woman. We are not talking about other races or other peoples sexual preferences benefiting or using the Civil Rights Movement as a crutch for more rights. That is simply unacceptable. Those groups benefited from the Civil Rights Movement because of what the movement stood for. That doesn't make these groups right. Let the Gays speak for the Gays and leave the "blacks" struggle out of it.

Drawing up inconclusive anologies are fine, but to actively use our struggle as a moniker for more rights--when you already have basic rights-- is flat out wrong.

 

[Flea]

Originally Posted by McTojo
Civil Rights Movement in the United States, political, legal, and social struggle to gain full citizenship rights for black Americans and to achieve racial equality. The civil rights movement was first and foremost a challenge to segregation, the system of laws and customs separating blacks and whites that whites used to control blacks after slavery was abolished in the 1860s. During the civil rights movement, individuals and civil rights organizations challenged segregation and discrimination with a variety of activities, including protest marches, boycotts, and refusal to abide by segregation laws. Many believe that the movement began with the Montgomery bus boycott in 1955 and ended with the Voting Rights Act of 1965, though there is debate about when it began and whether it has ended yet. The civil rights movement has also been called the Black Freedom Movement, the Negro Revolution, and the Second Reconstruction.MicrosoftR EncartaR Reference Library 2002. c 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

So now that we've cleared the air out of the room, You haven't and we have removed any misunderstanding on this topic, we can move forward. We have been already, I am not sure why you are stuck on this concept though

The premise of the Civil Rights Movement was in principle for the "black" man/woman. We are not talking about other races or other peoples sexual preferences benefiting or using the Civil Rights Movement as a crutch for more rights. That is simply unacceptable. Those groups benefited from the Civil Rights Movement because of what the movement stood for. That doesn't make these groups right. Let the Gays speak for the Gays and leave the "blacks" struggle out of it.

Drawing up inconclusive anologies are fine, but to actively use our struggle as a moniker for more rights--when you already have basic rights-- is flat out wrong.
__________________

If an person characterizes the Civil Rights Movement it would be Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Key quotes for Martin Luther King Jr.
- "Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring—when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children—black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics— (and HAD the Issue been big at the time, would he not have added HeteroSexuals AND HomoSexuals?) will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

- "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

- "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal. (Not All Black and White men, But ALL MEN) 'I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."

 

[Hatuey]

If an person characterizes the Civil Rights Movement it would be Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Key quotes for Martin Luther King Jr.
- "Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring—when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children—black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics— (and HAD the Issue been big at the time, would he not have added HeteroSexuals AND HomoSexuals?) will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

- "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

- "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal. (Not All Black and White men, But ALL MEN) 'I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."

You beat me to it. Damn you.

 

[disneydude]

There are obvious comparisons in the plight of any minority in seeking equality under the laws of the United States, be it racial, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Anyone who says that there is no discrimination in the United States today is either naive or dishonest. There are laws that discriminate against gays, there is still to this day a large discrepancy between what men and women are paid in the workforce...and anyone who says that a black child and a white child in general have the exact same opportunities in life is not grounded in reality. Have we gotten better? I would say yes. The Civil Rights movement of the 50's and 60's was not solely about Blacks. Most Blacks recognize this....Most understand that the principles that MLK spoke of applied across the board to any type of discrimination. Those individuals who are angered at the comparisons with gay civil rights don't understand the messages that MLK and other civil rights leaders spoke about.

 

[Navy Pride]

I think it is outrageous to try and compare gay rights in any way with the trials and tribulations that Black Americans have had to go through and an insult to all Black Americans......

 

[Hatuey]

I think it is outrageous to try and compare gay rights in any way with the trials and tribulations that Black Americans have had to go through and an insult to all Black Americans......

I'm not insulted. Wait let me ask my dad. Nope he's not insulted either.

PS : Where ya been bud? Havent see ya in a minute.

 

[Jerry]

Is it OK for Homosexuls to Piggy-Back the Civil Rights Movement in an effort to gain more rights?

I am torn between thinking that it is OK and that it is NOT.

I have yet to hear from any African-Americans that feel that it is Acceptable. In fact, almost all that I have ever listened to claim that it is an insult to attempt to lump the two together.

Your thoughts?

Where's the poll for this thread and why do people keep making threads without polls in the poll forum?

 

[Flea]

I just didn't put one there. It has an option, so I figured that it is not mandatory. I want the reasons behind the opinions more than I want a yes or no.

 

[aquapub]

Over the last few years, gays have sought to overturn sodomy laws, built taxpayer-funded gay high schools, pushed gays into the Episcapalian ministry, tried to have the courts un-define marriage and convert the Judeo-Christian ritual from a privalege into a right. They've also invaded our TV and film world, and march in parades taking pride in their sex lives as if anyone cares.

Some of this is just irritating, some of it is constitutionally illiterate hysteria, some of it is understandable, but altogether, it has appeared in recent years that they are on some kind of war path, and I think that has backfired a bit.

 

[disneydude]

I think it is outrageous to try and compare gay rights in any way with the trials and tribulations that Black Americans have had to go through and an insult to all Black Americans......

People who make comments like this are people who are just trying to convince Black Americans to join their push to deny gays rights that are available to most all other Americans. Fortunately, most Black Americans see through this and reject their pleas to be "insulted". Most Black Americans that I associate with recognize the political agenda here.

At the same time, a lot of Black Americans are very religious and accept the view that homosexuality is a "sin". So there is an inherent conflict between accepting their religious beliefs and countering that with a history of understanding discrimination.

There is no mistake that most Black Americans accept the Democratic platform in spite of their personal religious beliefs. I believe that this is because Black Americans, unlike a lot of other "Christians", are able to seperate religion from state and even though their religious beliefs may be that homosexuality is a sin, they do not allow their religious beliefs to enter into what they understand to be state sponsored discrimination.

Yes, the plight of Black Americans, Gay Americans and other minorities is very different. However, again....most Black Americans understand that the principles underlying the civil rights movement are color-blind and exceed far beyond race.

 

[Navy Pride]

Over the last few years, gays have sought to overturn sodomy laws, built taxpayer-funded gay high schools, pushed gays into the Episcapalian ministry, tried to have the courts un-define marriage and convert the Judeo-Christian ritual from a privalege into a right. They've also invaded our TV and film world, and march in parades taking pride in their sex lives as if anyone cares.

Some of this is just irritating, some of it is constitutionally illiterate hysteria, some of it is understandable, but altogether, it has appeared in recent years that they are on some kind of war path, and I think that has backfired a bit.

I agree with you but I don't think you can blame all gays for these actions..I think most gay people would love to live their life in peace and harmony and are offended by what a few militant gays and some of our "Feel Good" Liberals on the left are doing.........

What these militant gays and "Feel Good" Liberals are really doing is turning off moderates that might be sympathetic to their plight.......

 

[McTojo]

If an person characterizes the Civil Rights Movement it would be Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Key quotes for Martin Luther King Jr.
- "Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring—when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children—black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics— (and HAD the Issue been big at the time, would he not have added HeteroSexuals AND HomoSexuals?) will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

- "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

- "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal. (Not All Black and White men, But ALL MEN) 'I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."

Martin Luther King Jr. was chosen as the principal leader of the Civil Rights Movement by white America because of his non-violence approach and his call to comformity messages i.e., love your enemy; pray for those who despitefully use you; turn the other cheek. He was not the leader, so to speak, the movement actually began 30 years before he was born. There were so many greats before him who were the founders and architects of the Civil Rights Movement in America,but they weren't popular because their messages were about black independents and Pan-Africanism--dangerous elements for black people to learn about. Mr. King wasn't the first comformist either, you had Booker T. Washington's Great Compromise Speech which bombshelled the entire black race in America. In it's tenets he said that Black Americans should accept their inferiority to whites first in order to move forward as a people. (Can you image teaching your children that they were born inferior to another race and that they had to accept these terms in order to become successful in America? Do you realize what that would have done to the psyche of that child?).

MLK bankrupted the Civil Rights Movement and this is why the NAACP tried to sue him. But this isn't about MLK, right ? It's about Gays tramping over our sacrifice as a legitimate people who sought only the BASIC HUMAN rights; not love for another man/woman. The Gays have rights, they just want more, thus they are using Civil Rights as a crutch to do it.

You Chose MLK because his dream included you(every other American & white American), and made you feel that your sins were forgiven for so many past wrongdoings. You chose MLK because he was a Christian and because he wanted to be like you and be a part of you and accepted by you.

So, you see, you got it all wrong. MLK hurt the Civil Rights Movement. I believe it was after 1955(?) the U.S. government allowed a very high percentage of other minority groups to come to America e.g. Korean, and Chinese... Blacks weren't the chief benefactors of the movement that's why we fail miserable as a people demographically even to this day.

 

[disneydude]

They've also invaded our TV and film world.

This post is just funny. Do you actually believe that Heterosexuals own the TV and film world?....this is two-prong funny....first....the belief that any sexual orientation can lay claim to something as "theirs"....and secondly...it fails to recognize that a large proportion, if not the majority of people in the entertainment industry are .....gulp......gay.

 

[Jerry]

I just didn't put one there. It has an option, so I figured that it is not mandatory. I want the reasons behind the opinions more than I want a yes or no.

There's an option because you can attach a poll to any thread rather or not it's in the poll forum.

There are those of us who don't wish to engage the issue at the moment but would like to show our support for one side or the other just in passing. IMO if you didn't want a poll on your thread, there's nothing wrong with that, but it belongs in "sex and sexuality" or "religion and philosophy", "US Partisan Politics and Political Platforms" or similar.

I won't derail your thread further, just thought I'd voice an irritation.

Have fun :2wave:

 

[Navy Pride]

People who make comments like this are people who are just trying to convince Black Americans to join their push to deny gays rights that are available to most all other Americans. Fortunately, most Black Americans see through this and reject their pleas to be "insulted". Most Black Americans that I associate with recognize the political agenda here.

At the same time, a lot of Black Americans are very religious and accept the view that homosexuality is a "sin". So there is an inherent conflict between accepting their religious beliefs and countering that with a history of understanding discrimination.

There is no mistake that most Black Americans accept the Democratic platform in spite of their personal religious beliefs. I believe that this is because Black Americans, unlike a lot of other "Christians", are able to seperate religion from state and even though their religious beliefs may be that homosexuality is a sin, they do not allow their religious beliefs to enter into what they understand to be state sponsored discrimination.

Yes, the plight of Black Americans, Gay Americans and other minorities is very different. However, again....most Black Americans understand that the principles underlying the civil rights movement are color-blind and exceed far beyond race.

I would love to see a poll of how African Americans,especially those in the bible belt feel about comparing their fight for civil rights to that of gays....I think the left would be very surprised by the results.........