History of US tax-rates since their inception

[Luther]

Democrats extended the Great Depression by over a decade.

I think the Great Depression was doing that all by itself

They don't call it the Great depression for nothing

 

[Lafayette]

I'm not sure you know how graphs work. It looks like the last time they were lower than today was the period from 1988-2012.

Blah-blah-blah.

Picayune commentary ...

 

[Luther]

The saddest part is that the screwed up federal “budgeting” process results in a congressional re-election rate of over 90% - thus is very unlikely to be changed.

congressional re-election rate of over 90%

Yes, they have the voters in some sort of head lock or giving a painful Indian rub(LOL)

 

[Lafayette]

Why do ya forget to add more Americans don't even pay a Fed tax as well?

You've understood NOTHING.

I'm far more concerned for the 32 million Yanks who live below the Poverty Threshold because they can't get out! It's the pits. Do you understand that subtle thought?

They are there because they have not the credentials to leave - and the Chinese have taken all those jobs that they might have had. My parents sweated in a plastics-factory for their entire lives to get their children OUT OF THE SHAT-EXISTENCE THAT POVERTY FORCED THEM TO LIVE AND INTO A HIGHER EDUCATION!

When it should have been free, gratis and for nothing (or next to nothing) - just like high-school!

Any more blah-blah-blah? Then keep it to yourself ... !

 

[Luther]

You've understood NOTHING.

I'm far more concerned for the 32 million Yanks who live below the Poverty Threshold because they can't get out! It's the pits. Do you understand that subtle thought?

They are there because they have not the credentials to leave - and the Chinese have taken all those jobs that they might have had. My parents sweated in a plastics-factory for their entire lives to get their children OUT OF THE SHAT-EXISTENCE THAT POVERTY FORCED THEM TO LIVE AND INTO A HIGHER EDUCATION!

When it should have been free, gratis and for nothing (or next to nothing) - just like high-school!

Any more blah-blah-blah? Then keep it to yourself ... !

I'm far more concerned for the 32 million Yanks who live below the Poverty Threshold because they can't get out! It's the pits.

Unfortunately for you, I'm one of those

I don't have a problem with $

You're not even a yank?

 

[Lafayette]

Isn't a corporate tax more in line with Democrat socialist Europe a good thing?(LOL)

You tell me. If you're looking for the title of Mr. Brilliant here!

There are not-so-many sources of principal taxation:
*Personal income taxes
*Business taxes
*Corporate taxes
*State taxation

Since the end of WW2, Federal Taxes have been fairly constant at 17.5% of GDP. See here.

Moreover, the tax-to-GDP ratio in the United States has decreased from 28.3% in 2000 to 24.3% in 2018. About what are you COMPLAINING? (Much of which is Corporate!)

Any more complaints about taxation - or how to avoid them because they are squeezing the life out of our economy ... !?!

PS: Run out of drinking-whisky, have you?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Unfortunately for you, I'm one of those

I don't have a problem with $

You're not even a yank?

Are you seriously trying to assert that a household with two (full-time state?) employees is living below the (federal?) poverty line?

 

[Lafayette]

You're not even a yank?

Sorry to disappoint you! But, yes, I am American and I live in Europe - where my Healthcare is pretty damn cheap and so is the cost of sending my kids into a post-secondary education ...

 

[Geoist]

I'm not sure you know how graphs work. It looks like the last time they were lower than today was the period from 1988-2012.

And all throughout that time the wealth gap has grown greater and greater.

The rise of wealth inequality is almost entirely due to the rise of the top 0.1% wealth share, from 7% in 1979 to 22% in 2012--a level almost as high as in 1929.

Wealth Inequality in the United States since 1913: Evidence from Capitalized Income Tax Data

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

.

 

[Lafayette]

And all throughout that time the wealth gap has grown greater and greater.

The rise of wealth inequality is almost entirely due to the rise of the top 0.1% wealth share, from 7% in 1979 to 22% in 2012--a level almost as high as in 1929.

A picture is worth a thousand words:

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Indeed they do.

Why the Replicants wanted to increase the rate for that period is likely due to expansion of national expenditures and they wanted a zero-debt national-budget? Bush assumed the presidency in 1988, and if he wanted to balance-an-expanded-budget by increasing the tax-rate it is then that he should have done it. And not later when he wants to get reelected.

Politics is a curious animal ...

So your claim that rates haven't been as low as they are now since the 1920s is... false.

 

[iguanaman]

Even at such high tax rates wealthy people still existed and managed to find the motivation to work even in the 50's.

It shows just how silly the Republican mantra that high tax will destroy the economy really is.

Yes The high tax rates meant that they invested in tax deductible expenses like improvements to their businesses and the wages of their workers instead of taking exorbitant salaries. Our ancestors were not dummies and knew that greed must be regulated like any other danger to society. Combined with strong unions this built the very first middle class in the world that raised the standard of living for a majority of a nation. We gave that up for the myth of the "job creators".

 

[Lafayette]

ALL WRONG, ALL WRONG, ALL WRONG

Our ancestors were not dummies and knew that greed must be regulated like any other danger to society. Combined with strong unions this built the very first middle class in the world that raised the standard of living for a majority of a nation. We gave that up for the myth of the "job creators".

Then how did we EVER allow Donald-Dork to be a president (by voting for him)!

Twice he has been beaten at the polls, and he's still pissing-'n-moaning on the Internet about how awful he's being treated.

The guy is sick, sick, sick and has been for quite some time. The fact that his father left him net-worth $413M seems to have no impression upon anybody. Do you really think he's a self-made-man?

DD is NOT "self-made". He is the product of an upper-class that is immensely rich - largely because we don't tax the piss outta them! And they continue meddling in political affairs time and time again for their own personal profit. Because they THINK manipulating the political-system of elections is "a national right"!

Look, if you don't want to believe me that's just fine. But I suggest you read the history of the Russian revolution. You will find that it resulted and succeeded because pre-1917 the working-class were very-very badly treated by the Tsar and his class. Of course, the revolution succeeded but what followed since the country still hasn't got right!

Do indeed tell me how I got it all-wrong, all-wrong, all-wrong. Our working-class are now mostly of a different colour than "white". They are of a variety of cultures. But if push-ever-comes-to-shove, Uncle Sam is going to have one helluva problem dealing with the human consequences.

We can avoid those dire consequences if we put more fair-play into our upper-income taxation and spend money on a low-cost post-secondary education (which is today a clear factor for a successful financial existence) ...

 

[rickc]

Yes The high tax rates meant that they invested in tax deductible expenses like improvements to their businesses and the wages of their workers instead of taking exorbitant salaries. Our ancestors were not dummies and knew that greed must be regulated like any other danger to society. Combined with strong unions this built the very first middle class in the world that raised the standard of living for a majority of a nation. We gave that up for the myth of the "job creators".

Finally somebody gets it.

The wealthy have had a great run since Reagan.

Big problem we have now is right wing propaganda has convinced those racist white working class men that minorities and illegal immigrants have caused this problem. That low taxes on the rich are good for them and organized labor exploits the working class. Truth is nothing Republicans actually do helps the working class at all. Quite the contrary.

The wealthy own our representatives. Well at least the republican ones. Why do you think they are fighting so hard to maintain control. With mail in voting circumventing their voter suppression they see they may lose that control.

This can be fixed but it will be a long painful path.

 

[Lafayette]

THE GROSS MANIPULATION OF VOTER GERRYMANDERING

The wealthy own our representatives. Well at least the republican ones. Why do you think they are fighting so hard to maintain control. With mail in voting circumventing their voter suppression they see they may lose that control.

This can be fixed but it will be a long painful path.

By that statement above, I think you mean "bought". And I would agree wholeheartedly.

The super-rich particularly were all for Donald-Dork - who is, uh, Super-duper Rich!

We, the sheeple, did not want Donald Dork twice around. In the first instance, he got elected in the cockamamie Electoral College - which is a denial of a Free Popular-vote Election! And that's where he got elected.

Here are the list of countries that employ an "Electoral College": USA, Burundi, Estonia, India, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad, Tobago and Vanuatu. The Seanad Éireann (Senate) in Ireland is also chosen by an electoral college.

Worse yet, I am baffled how he got as many votes as he did. Half the electorate succumbed to his nonsense all over TV and his staged appearances?

Uncle Sam is in a sorry state, and frankly I think it is due to the lack of Civics education. I cannot understand how anyone who sees the manipulations of the EC of the popular-vote can think it is "fair and honest". Any voting contraption that takes the loser's-vote and provides it to the winner's-vote has to be a Gross Manipulation of the Popular-vote process.

PS: For a better understanding of widely-employed "Gerrymandering" (even in Europe).

 

[Lafayette]

... organized labor exploits the working class

The percentage of America's working class that belongs to a union is a not-so-great 11.6%!

From the BLS-site: Union Representation Percent

 

[Peter]

Republicans have successfully demonised unions in the US.
They have got many thinking that banding together to ask for better pay and conditions is somehow evil and wrong and will make any company flee or simply crumble under the terrible weight of having to pay people a wage they can actually live on.
They've made empathy a dirty word and all they care about is the share price and stockholder value and the people who actually do the work and create that value need to just shut-up and accept whatever crumbs the company throws at them while the CEO and executives get big fat pay checks, bonuses and pay rises because they create the value for the company not the people who do the work.

It's an insane mindset that will at some point end once people realise they've been screwed and I don't want to be in the US when it does as I have a feeling it's going to get ugly.

 

[newpublius]

The last time they were lower than today was in the 1920s ...

Of course by definition for most of US history there was no income tax, but I digress.

Nevertheless, this is a chart showing ONE rate. Always remember that the true measure of aggregate taxation is GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

 

[rickc]

Of course by definition for most of US history there was no income tax, but I digress.

Nevertheless, this is a chart showing ONE rate. Always remember that the true measure of aggregate taxation is GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

There is no correlation between tax revenues and spending. Hasn't been since Reagan.

 

[newpublius]

There is no correlation between tax revenues and spending. Hasn't been since Reagan.

View attachment 67309086

Borrowing is simply the promise of future taxation of course. The larger point of course is that no matter how you look at it, the physical taxing notwithstanding is one thing, but government spending shows the actual goods/services and resources that the government is commanding and that is the true burden of government on the society.

Government Spending is the Real Tax

If budgetary rules themselves are the products of the same political pressures and election dynamics that lead to growing debt and deficits, how can we get politicians to adopt strict and binding rules in the first place?

www.aier.org

 

[Lafayette]

Yes The high tax rates meant that they invested in tax deductible expenses like improvements to their businesses and the wages of their workers instead of taking exorbitant salaries

You're dreaming!

Small companies behave in that manner above, which frankly is goodness.

Large companies have a much wider view. There is NO CONNIVANCE on salary levels. But they do ask intermediaries (like professional Job Recruitment Sites) how much is the going-rate of a certain job-position. So, salaries depend upon where you live and for whom you are working.

From Business Insider, here:

What is considered a good salary in USA?

The median necessary living wage across the entire US is $67,690. The state with the lowest annual living wage is Mississippi, with $58,321. The state with the highest living wage is Hawaii, with $136,437. (Nov 19, 2020)

 

[Lafayette]

... but government spending shows the actual goods/services and resources that the government is commanding and that is the true burden of government on the society.

Burden?

I have higher taxes here in France than you do in the US. But, I also have the benefit of a National Healthcare System which affords those who use it (as I do) in France a life-span two-years more than you-plural in the US.

And my two kids went to university for just $4K a year. The average at a public post-secondary institution in the US is $9.3K/year! (From here.) More than double the cost in the EU - where a Bachelor's degree costs between 150 - 3,500 EUR/year (see here).

If you look at the data from here, you will find that:
*The US and the EU countries have an identical average of those graduating with a 4-year degree. Both are at 37%.
*But the cost of post-secondary degrees in Europe vs the US has the EU very far less expensive than the US.

Yup, the higher taxation allows me (first) two more years of lifespan than you and (secondly) the fact that my kids get an education allowing them a decent salary at a higher paying job exiting university that is far less expensive than had they obtained their degrees in the US.

My Point?: The costs of both Healthcare and Post-secondary Education are far more expensive in the US than the EU. But taxation is higher in the EU - and, so what? The benefit is worth the extra-cost ...

 

[Lafayette]

So your claim that rates haven't been as low as they are now since the 1920s is... false.

Blah, blah, blah.

There are more than enough graphics on this thread that prove Income and Wealth Fairness in America is deeply warped by Uncle Sam's method of taxation.

And a great-deal of that unfairness was begun under Reckless Ronnie's administration when he lowered upper-income taxation (a trend started by JFK to please "daddy" who helped finance his campaign).

It's high-time that America corrects an inequity that plagues the country ...

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Blah, blah, blah ...

That's exactly what your claim amounts to. We are in agreement, then.

 

[Lafayette]

That's exactly what your claim amounts to. We are in agreement, then.

You've been around this forum since 2011 and you've very apparently learned nothing.

Which is a problem that befuddles a great many of our fellow Americans. Makes one wonder what they learned in school about Income Inequality. Certainly nothing about how unfair the electoral-system was from the get-go when LaLaLand on the Potomac concocted it (at the beginning of the 19th century) and since has elected 5 PRESIDENTS that lost the popular-vote.

As well as the infamous Gerrymandering created by the Governor of Massachusetts in 1810 that warps presidential elections to this day.

Wakey, wakey ... !