History of US tax-rates since their inception

[bluesmoke]

Isn't a corporate tax more in line with Democrat socialist Europe a good thing?(LOL)

I don't know what you're talking about. A corp tax rate more in line with a capitalist economy that benefits the whole is the good thing, consistent with our own, as designed, progressive fed tax system.

 

[rahl]

There seems to be two raging (and all too common) misconceptions at work in this thread:

1. Tax rates on the wealthy are orders of magnitude lower now than they used to be.
   
   
2. Lower tax rates are what's built up the debt.

Both are, for the most part, nonsense. For starters, to cite statutory tax rates to make the case for #1 is ridiculous. Those are not the rates people actually pay. The effective rates are what matter, and historically, they are these:

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Taxes on the Rich Were Not That Much Higher in the 1950s

Despite high marginal income tax rates, the top 1% of taxpayers in the 1950s only paid about 42% of their income in taxes. See more about taxes on the rich.

taxfoundation.org

As for tax revenue, do the math. Since 1980 (just before that evil Ron Reagan took over) to today, the average annual increase in federal tax revenue is between 5 and 6%. You can vet that by doing the math yourself with this data (or any number of other publications): https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762

Sorry, folks. Anyway you slice it, the reason we have a massive federal debt is excess spending, not insufficient taxation.

It’s a mathematical fact that cutting taxes reduces revenue. There is no arguing that. We also have a spending problem, but republicans exacerbate the debt by orders of magnitude more than democrats when they slash revenues while also increasing spending. They’ve been doing it for 40 years and it’s resulted in 23 trillion of debt, and the largest wealth disparity since the 1920’s.

 

[RealityNow]

It’s a mathematical fact that cutting taxes reduces revenue. There is no arguing that. We also have a spending problem, but republicans exacerbate the debt by orders of magnitude more than democrats when they slash revenues while also increasing spending. They’ve been doing it for 40 years and it’s resulted in 23 trillion of debt, and the largest wealth disparity since the 1920’s.

We've not seen a Republican Administration that has not increased the National Debt in 50+ yrs... and then they want to cut taxes. As the Chart in earlier post shows, when Corporate Taxes are Higher "America Prospers", "Business and Industry" is made more stable and growth is done by solid steps; this translates into the lives of the working class is improved in income and living standards upkeep of our overall categories of Infrastructure.

When Republican talk budget, its only because "they only want what they want" and they pack their wants into any bill and in doing so, try to block out what other items that may be within the bills. This "Autocratic" - Attack Something Mentality - Damages society on every level.

We are not going to go back to Jim Crow Systems where tax revenue was spent only of white well to do and white wealthy society. Our tax revenues is to be spent to benefit "All" of American society... without the bias of race and high income monetary status being a controlling factor in how its spent.

Thank goodness we have a young generation who actually "research and read" and they are exposing the biases in every category from Religion Teaching Ideology of mental manipulations, to Society Economics, on Federal, State, County and City levels. They are exposing the biases in business and industry as it relates to race and gender.

General society is more informed and knowledgeable than any previous time in World and American History.

We watched the madness of Trump take over the Republican System and go to extremes trying to sustain and reconstitute white nationalism, and the majority of Americans "Reject" it in every aspect. The world does not go backwards, neither will American society. Working Poor and Poor Whites are finally realizing in many sectors of society, that the old system of Jim Crow Segregationist Ideology, was "damaging to them in ways they never gave attention unto"... it segregated working class and poor whites, to a fixed frame of economic deficiency, and ultimately educational deficiency, all impacting and bringing down the pathways to middle class economic standards, and making it difficult to meet the basis standards of living, let along unable to elevate to middle class higher standards of living.
They are fast learning, that "everything" that was designed to "disenfranchise blacks, and other minorities" was also with design to minimize any progress of working poor and poor whites.

Nothing can stop the advances of "education" where a society become more informed and knowledgeable; there will be a return to educational systems being funded as they were before Ronald Reagan damaged Community Colleges, and State Universities. The attempt of Reagan to slow down the progress of poor whites and minorities, by making educational higher learning accessibility more difficult to get... has not worked as he planned. In great part, thanks to the 1990's advances in wide spread Internet.

Now, people are becoming more financially literate... and they are driven to learn more about Civics of American Democracy.... and The Values of The Preamble.... and its meaning for "All" American People.

 

[Lafayette]

COMPARATIVE HEALTHCARE COSTS US AND EUROPE

All of this keyboard diarrhea means... tax rates haven't been this low since the 1920's?

American's would be much better off were their higher tax rates that payed for a decently much-lower-cost Healthcare System!

You think that all that matters is just tax-rates? Well, it doesn't! What matters are the expenses of government that taxes pay for! And as regards both Healthcare and Post-secondary Education, they are not all that profuse.

America has the highest Healthcare and Post-secondary education systems. Which is why your lifespan, in the first instance, is 4 years less than Europe. Also, more European kids obtain their post-secondary degree leading to a decent income and thus standard-of-living.

Those are the factors that matter most in life. Not the low-tax rates but a country's standard-of-living. And, yes taxes can assist in making life easier/better.

Taxation is much higher in Europe. And Europe does not spend half its Discretionary Tax-Income on the military as does Uncle Sam. Which allows them to give mush lower-cost (than the US) National Healthcare Services and nearly-free Post-secondary Education.

Such as indicated here: How do healthcare prices and use in the U.S. compare to other countries?

For instance, see here; this graphic: "On average, other wealthy countries spend half as much per person on healthcare than the U.S."

Note that per-capita US healthcare costs are typically twice as much as in Europe. Which is mostly due to the fact that medical-salaries are much, much higher in the US than in Europe.

And, whyzzat? Because healthcare is privatized in the US and government funded in Europe ...











; .....

 

[mrjurrs]

Pretty obvious what the effect of the Reagan tax cuts were from the graphs below.

Before Reagan the wealthy business owners knew that any income over $215,000 ($680,000 adjusted for inflation 2020) would be taxed a a 70% rate. They could either pay it in taxes or invest it in their business or workers. Made it a lot easier to give raises. If you notice from the table below a rising tide raised all boats.

Now after Reagan's tax cuts those wealthy business owners realized they could keep it all and they did.

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I understand that it is in the govt interest to have people invest. It is also in the govts interest that people work. The dramatic difference in tax rates should be eliminated. Give every American a certain amount of investment income tax-free and include the rest in ordinary income.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

COMPARATIVE HEALTHCARE COSTS US AND EUROPE



American's would be much better off were their higher tax rates that payed for a decently much-lower-cost Healthcare System!

You think that all that matters is just tax-rates? Well, it doesn't! What matters are the expenses of government that taxes pay for! And as regards both Healthcare and Post-secondary Education, they are not all that profuse.

America has the highest Healthcare and Post-secondary education systems. Which is why your lifespan, in the first instance, is 4 years less than Europe. Also, more European kids obtain their post-secondary degree leading to a decent income and thus standard-of-living.

Those are the factors that matter most in life. Not the low-tax rates but a country's standard-of-living. And, yes taxes can assist in making life easier/better.

Taxation is much higher in Europe. And Europe does not spend half its Discretionary Tax-Income on the military as does Uncle Sam. Which allows them to give mush lower-cost (than the US) National Healthcare Services and nearly-free Post-secondary Education.

Such as indicated here: How do healthcare prices and use in the U.S. compare to other countries?

For instance, see here; this graphic: "On average, other wealthy countries spend half as much per person on healthcare than the U.S."

Note that per-capita US healthcare costs are typically twice as much as in Europe. Which is mostly due to the fact that medical-salaries are much, much higher in the US than in Europe.

And, whyzzat? Because healthcare is privatized in the US and government funded in Europe ...











; .....

I'm still not sure how this is supposed to show that tax rates haven't been lower than they are now since the 1920's when the graph clearly shows otherwise.

But keep trying. This is amusing. For now.

 

[Lafayette]

But keep trying. This is amusing. For now.

One-liner aberrant sarcasm.

That's all the Replicants are good for - sarcasm .... !

 

[Grizzly Adams]

One-liner aberrant sarcasm.

That's all the Replicants are good for - sarcasm .... !

Look, you were the one who claimed that tax rates haven't been this low in 100 years, then put up a graph that clearly showed otherwise. If you've got a problem with people pointing out your ****-ups, then don't **** up.

 

[Lafayette]

Look, you were the one who claimed that tax rates haven't been this low in 100 years, then put up a graph that clearly showed otherwise. If you've got a problem with people pointing out your ****-ups, then don't **** up.

Given that Income Taxation began in America in 1913, my remark remains less than 100 years out-of-date ... ;^)

Anyone can find the US rate-history of taxation on this chart here ...

PS: Yes, we all have got a Big Problem about people who employ one-liners in a DEBATE forum! One-liners are banter and NOT debate!

 

[bluesmoke]

The point to me is that tax rates and net tax paid have been historically higher than now, especially corp taxes, which has resulted in an ever widening wealth gap and little wealth accumulated, at all, for the lower 40% of income earners, whom make about $40K/yr on avg. Lowering tax rates do not help them much because so many don't make enough to pay any fed income taxes (net of SS, Medicare) and thus must rely of some form of govt assistance. Hence the need for govt funded healthcare because private enterprise has failed to deliver affordable healthcare for a society need. That's why we have SS, Medicare, the national highway system and more. Because private enterprise, the so-called free-market, cannot or will not supply such in a cost-effective manner for society's need. To do such as that and for our deteriorated infrastructure rebuild, we need to go back to a progressive tax system as designed, not the regressive tax structure as we leaped into with the Trump tax cuts for the rich and large corps and as done by Rep admins in the past, beginning with Reagan.

 

[Lafayette]

IT ALL BEGAN WITH RECKLESS RONNIE RAYGUN

I don't know what you're talking about. A corp tax rate more in line with a capitalist economy that benefits the whole is the good thing, consistent with our own, as designed, progressive fed tax system.

Better yet is a Personal Tax-rate on upper-incomes that becomes confiscatory (at 95%) beyond 2 megabucks a year and also prohibits, upon death, leaving more that 10 megabucks to any hier.

We have one of the worst levels of Income-Disparity of any modern country - and this all began when Reckless Ronnie reduced drastically upper-income taxation. From CNN here: Taxes: What people forget about Reagan

Excerpt:

Be sure to read the bit under Raygun's photo. He cut the top income rate from 70% to 28%!

And here is what they look like for 2021, here: https://www.debt.org/tax/brackets/

Scroll down to table titled "2020 Tax Brackets (Due April 2021)"

PS: For a cross country comparison internationally of tax-rates, see here: World Inequality Report 2018

 

[bluesmoke]

IT ALL BEGAN WITH RECKLESS RONNIE RAYGUN



Better yet is a Personal Tax-rate on upper-incomes that becomes confiscatory (at 95%) beyond 2 megabucks a year and also prohibits, upon death, leaving more that 10 megabucks to any hier.

We have one of the worst levels of Income-Disparity of any modern country - and this all began when Reckless Ronnie reduced drastically upper-income taxation. From CNN here: Taxes: What people forget about Reagan

Excerpt:

Be sure to read the bit under Raygun's photo. He cut the top income rate from 70% to 28%!

And here is what they look like for 2021, here: https://www.debt.org/tax/brackets/

Scroll down to table titled "2020 Tax Brackets (Due April 2021)"

PS: For a cross country comparison internationally of tax-rates, see here: World Inequality Report 2018

Yes, an appropriate fed progressive tax system would, naturally, incl personal income. I would shift away from secondary, other taxes/charges and move that over to the income tax side. That would also be more in keeping with a progressive fed income tax system. Taxes that would not be shifted over would be those that are, for example, a business tax instead of becoming a socialized cost that affords a private business profit.

 

[Waddy]

The last time they were lower than today was in the 1920s ...

nobody actually paid those high rates in the 1950's. Lots and lots of loopholes.

 

[rickc]

nobody actually paid those high rates in the 1950's. Lots and lots of loopholes.

I always hear that argument from Righties but something sure equalized income distribution during that period.

 

[Lafayette]

nobody actually paid those high rates in the 1950's. Lots and lots of loopholes.

Yes, you're right. But neither were those rates the exact opposite of what you see. The resemblance between what the law says the rate is and what you actually pay is what we are talking about.

And since Donald-Dork has been around that actual-rate came down a bit more. You see, he saw his reelection coming up and he was scared shatless of losing. So, he brought the rates down yet again. (Whilst he finagled his-taxation as will be proven in a court of law!)

You wanna give the Replicants control of just-the-senate? That's the sort of tax-manipulation they will play ... !

Which is why I keep saying, what the US must do to get rid of the two monolithic political parties. Then break both sides down to this:
ExtremeLeft --- ModerateLeft AND ModerateRight --- ExtremeRight

What we have today is nowhere near like that balance. The ExtremeLeft of the "Left" is just one guy. But the ModerateLeft is nowhere near "communistic" as the ExtremeRight is like some European King of the 16th century ...

 

[Luther]

The last time they were lower than today was in the 1920s ...

The last time they were lower than today was in the 1920s .

..

And.... it was called the ROARING 20's

 

[Luther]

I always hear that argument from Righties but something sure equalized income distribution during that period.

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And notice the Bottom graph stops in the year 2005?

I did

 

[Lafayette]

UP MY LEFT NOSTRIL

.. And.... it was called the ROARING 20's

That was more so a humongous economic-fart that occurred.

WW1 had ended and people needed a mind-boggling intellectual release - which they did in most of the 1930s. Then, in that same decade, a mind-bent Shitler turned himself loose on the world and what happened happened in the first half of 1940s. (That we did not fully reconstruct from until the mid-1950s.)

When you come down to the factual historical facts of the first half of the 20th century it was well worth cutting it loose from history-books and throwing it in the shat-bowl where it belonged.

Furthermore, the economic might that Uncle Sam had built during WW2 continued for a while but petered-out in the 1990s with the advent of the Internet. Most of America's manufacturing has high-tailed it to China and below the Mexican border. Uncle Sam went berserk with a mega-megabuck evolution of the Internet. Which has not been shared equitably.

And we've still not got that one right - because much of the megabuck generated is going to only a handful of mega-jerkos! The US has more of its poor than it has ever had historically ...

PS: My apologies for being so negative - but I cannot look to a glowing future when historically we humans seem to almost "want dearly" to fug-up a good thing. This growth-growth-growth thing gets up my left-nostril ...

 

[Lafayette]

BEING SCREWED ROYALLY

I don't know what you're talking about. A corp tax rate more in line with a capitalist economy that benefits the whole is the good thing, consistent with our own, as designed, progressive fed tax system.

Not always? Yes, we hope it does, but often it's just "wishful thinking".

And what is most disparaging for the US is its recent history of Income Inequality:

Do note that the highest quintile is only slightly smaller than than the first four all together! (Do the numbers! I did! The lowest through fourth quintile amount to around to about 35% (of Income After Transfers and Taxes or IaT&T) - meaning whatever is left, that is, around 65%!)

Now do understand quintile means 20% of the population. So, the first-to-fourth quintile means 80% of the tax-paying population.

And as shown in the graphic the "other people", that is, the highest-20% the population (because of their tax level) obtain fully 50% of the total IaT&T!

Excuse me if I call that "being screwed royally" ...

 

[bluesmoke]

nobody actually paid those high rates in the 1950's. Lots and lots of loopholes.

Yeah. I get that. No matter what the rate, there's always the loopholes. In any event, the rich get richer and...Which is why as many loopholes and secondary taxes should be done away with and focus on income tax as much as possible.

 

[Waddy]

Yeah. I get that. No matter what the rate, there's always the loopholes. In any event, the rich get richer and...Which is why as many loopholes and secondary taxes should be done away with and focus on income tax as much as possible.

let's say we take away the mortgage deduction first.

The rich get richer because they can take advantage of loopholes that are available to everyone but only the rich can afford them. Warren Buffet takes out a 1 million dollar whole life insurance policy, which costs him $165K. He donates said policy to a charity. He can now write off a cool million on his taxes. Got an extra $165K laying around? YOU TOO CAN WRITE OFF A MILLION. So, should we do away with that pesky charitable donation loophole?

 

[CaughtInThe]

THOSE ARE ONLY THE RATES AFTER YOU MAKE "X" AMOUNT OF INCOME.

The most wealthy people pay the exact same income tax rate as the poorest Republicans on this board up to a certain amount. Then they pay the exact same income tax rate of middle class Republicans on this board between 2 amounts. Etc.



So many people don't understand this.

 

[bluesmoke]

And another thing. The beauty of the Trump/Republican tax plan can be seen, in color, in its effect on income distribution as estimated by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) from 2016-2021:
Projected Changes in the Distribution of Household Income, 2016 to 2021 (cbo.gov)

The rich get richer, and everybody else gets F'd. And most of those fools that voted for Trump, this is your reward. Trump likes to inflict pain on others. Even on those loyal to him, as he has proved time and again.

 

[bluesmoke]

let's say we take away the mortgage deduction first.

The rich get richer because they can take advantage of loopholes that are available to everyone but only the rich can afford them. Warren Buffet takes out a 1 million dollar whole life insurance policy, which costs him $165K. He donates said policy to a charity. He can now write off a cool million on his taxes. Got an extra $165K laying around? YOU TOO CAN WRITE OFF A MILLION. So, should we do away with that pesky charitable donation loophole?

The mtg deduction helps the middle class. So, unless there was a way of offsetting that...OTOH, those who've less income typically don't own homes and can't take advantage of the mtg deduction. Especially minorities. Some of them are making enough taxable income where that deduction would help.

 

[Waddy]

The mtg deduction helps the middle class. So, unless there was a way of offsetting that...OTOH, those who've less income typically don't own homes and can't take advantage of the mtg deduction. Especially minorities. Some of them are making enough taxable income where that deduction would help.

but even renters benefit from the deduction if the landlord can take it. Means rent can be lower. rental markets are very competitive, and even $50 lower per month is a big deal.