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History Lesson as to why guns are the problem.

poppopfox said:
Gun lobby propaganda. The CDC has never said that. Others have used the survey data to make that specious claim.

Defensive Gun Use Statistics: America’s Life-Saving Gun Incidents (2024)
Although the CDC did release a comprehensive study citing 60,000-2,500,000 defensive use cases each year, the government agency quickly withdrew its findings. Self-defense is subjective and, therefore, challenging to identify. Thus, we must understand the debate before accurately assessing how many defensive gun uses are possible.


Variations in Reporting

Although we can’t say exactly how many DGUs occur each year, we can deduce whether they are common or not based on the information that we do have. Various surveys from the early 1990s to 2023 gave us the 60,000-2,500,000 use case estimate.

Defensive gun use has no singular definition. Some researchers refer to the individual’s feelings about the situation. Others assess only those actively involved in violent crimes.

When Defensive Gun Use Doesn’t Work

Although the research is limited, a 2009 study in Philadelphia does shed light on instances where gunshot victims failed to thwart an attacker.

The study focused solely on gunshot victims who were over 21 and in possession of a firearm at the time of the assault. The control group were individuals of similar age and gender in Philadelphia at the same time of the shooting.

Here are factors to consider regarding incidents where an armed person was injured in a shooting-related attack:

  • Alcohol and illicit drugs were often a factor in the shooting.
  • 1-sided conflicts resulted in fewer shootings than 2-sided ones.
  • Reaction time was paramount in both one-sided and two-sided interactions. However, those who had time to react in two-sided interactions were more likely to be shot than those who had no reaction time.
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There are many falke studies like this the most famous was the Arthur Kellerman study. Of you ever have to defend your family try begging then tell us how that worked out
 
poppopfox said:
Gun lobby propaganda. The CDC has never said that. Others have used the survey data to make that specious claim.

Defensive Gun Use Statistics: America’s Life-Saving Gun Incidents (2024)
Although the CDC did release a comprehensive study citing 60,000-2,500,000 defensive use cases each year, the government agency quickly withdrew its findings. Self-defense is subjective and, therefore, challenging to identify. Thus, we must understand the debate before accurately assessing how many defensive gun uses are possible.


Variations in Reporting

Although we can’t say exactly how many DGUs occur each year, we can deduce whether they are common or not based on the information that we do have. Various surveys from the early 1990s to 2023 gave us the 60,000-2,500,000 use case estimate.

Defensive gun use has no singular definition. Some researchers refer to the individual’s feelings about the situation. Others assess only those actively involved in violent crimes.

When Defensive Gun Use Doesn’t Work

Although the research is limited, a 2009 study in Philadelphia does shed light on instances where gunshot victims failed to thwart an attacker.

The study focused solely on gunshot victims who were over 21 and in possession of a firearm at the time of the assault. The control group were individuals of similar age and gender in Philadelphia at the same time of the shooting.

Here are factors to consider regarding incidents where an armed person was injured in a shooting-related attack:

  • Alcohol and illicit drugs were often a factor in the shooting.
  • 1-sided conflicts resulted in fewer shootings than 2-sided ones.
  • Reaction time was paramount in both one-sided and two-sided interactions. However, those who had time to react in two-sided interactions were more likely to be shot than those who had no reaction time.
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No matter how you slice and dice those numbers tho, they still far outweigh the ~36,000 gun deaths/year, of which 2/3 are intentional (suicide).

Do you have an argument that explains why Americans who justifiably believe their risks and circumstances prudently would improve their security/protection with firearms should be denied that protection? (If you think they should). This is a choice they make...and they weigh the risks and consequences. Do you believe that the govt/strangers are in a better position to do so for them?

If you choose to deflect with "they dont consider/weigh those things," please back that up.
 
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Bodi said:
I doubt that...
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Keep in mind that 80% of the time a gun stops a crime and is never discharged. Even if we talk half 500000 it still makes valid argument
 
rahl said:
There’s nothing to doubt. The study has been posted already.
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Its worthless dated study. The cities with the most crime are all democrat run with severe gun control and poor criminal control
 
Rich2018 said:
...the number of mass shootings continue to rise.
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Do you have link that uses the same metrics for a mass shooting for say the past 10 years? Does a mass shooting include a gangbanger shoot out?
According to statista there was a huge drop in Mass shootings in 2024. As in down in the historical low range.

www.statista.com

Number of mass shootings in the U.S. 1982-2024| Statista

As of September 4, there were two mass shootings in the United States in 2024.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
SoccerCoach said:
Keep in mind that 80% of the time a gun stops a crime and is never discharged. Even if we talk half 500000 it still makes valid argument
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You throw out a lot of non-sourced stats...

... and Mass Shootings, the circumstance we are hoping to reduce... continues to rise in number.


b
 
Bodi said:
You throw out a lot of non-sourced stats...

... and Mass Shootings, the circumstance we are hoping to reduce... continues to rise in number.


b
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Um no...12 in 2023,
2 in 2024,
0 so far 2025

I posted the link above.
I hope this doesn't disappoint you.
 
Bodi said:
One thing I don't do is get drawn into an argument of semantics...


d
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You made a claim using a term you refuse to define.

That's okay. I'll refute you very easily. There was only one mass shooting in 2024. There have been none so far in 2025.
 
RF667799 said:
You made a claim using a term you refuse to define.

That's okay. I'll refute you very easily. There was only one mass shooting in 2024. There have been none so far in 2025.
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100% False
FACTS WIN AGAIN

Facts prove that you are wrong...

Sorry.


b
 
Bodi said:
100% False
FACTS WIN AGAIN

Facts prove that you are wrong...

Sorry.


b
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I just gave you the facts. You can't refute them simply by saying "Nuh-uh".
 
CLAX1911 said:
Watch me say facts several times that proves it.
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Always in over his head. I bet he can out-argue some second graders though. Or at least the more dull ones.
 
RF667799 said:
I just gave you the facts. You can't refute them simply by saying "Nuh-uh".
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I gave you the real facts... denying them because you don't like them is illogical.


d
 
RF667799 said:
Always in over his head. I bet he can out-argue some second graders though. Or at least the more dull ones.
Click to expand...

Instead of arguing facts you prefer to start Ad Homs... classic deflection for those that are ignorant of the facts.

I assumed that you would revert to this tactic eventually, but I reduced you to this in just three posts? 🤭


d
 
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