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History Lesson as to why guns are the problem.

CLAX1911 said:
That's extremely rare

To a statistically insignificant number to the point you should be more worried about police

And many of them are seeing increased crime.
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I'm not worried about being shot by the Swedish police because I cannot find any record of anyone being shot by them. You are imaging that our law enforcement officers are like many of the notoriously badly trained and poorly managed US cops.
 
Sweden said:
I'm not worried about being shot by the Swedish police because I cannot find any record of anyone being shot by them.
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I'm not worried about being shot by the Texas police.
Sweden said:
You are imaging that our law enforcement officers are like many of the notoriously badly trained and poorly managed US cops.
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No I never imaged anything about your police. The only thing I said about you is your government won't let you have guns and you think you're safe would you just be killing each other if you had them?
 
Sweden said:
I'm not worried about being shot by the Swedish police because I cannot find any record of anyone being shot by them. You are imaging that our law enforcement officers are like many of the notoriously badly trained and poorly managed US cops.
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Same here. I was pulled over by Kiwi cops for speeding and we got into a fun conversation about Top Gun: Maverick.

They just warned me and let me go. LOL


7
 
Sweden said:
The 'Law-abiding' may also sometime shoot people. They may suffer mental illness, see threats where none exist and so on. There is no advanced country where people want to move towards US style gun ownership.
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Presupposition of guilt means they should have rights removed?

Yes, because freedom is hard, it's not clean, it contains difficult choices. One of those choices is whether the right to self-defense is important enough that criminals can abuse the right to commit crime. Removing guns from citizens just makes them more defenseless to the criminals, it leaves them without choices.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Presupposition of guilt means they should have rights removed?

Yes, because freedom is hard, it's not clean, it contains difficult choices. One of those choices is whether the right to self-defense is important enough that criminals can abuse the right to commit crime. Removing guns from citizens just makes them more defenseless to the criminals, it leaves them without choices.
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What gets me is they'll say stuff like you have the right to self-defense but that's only unless someone shoots you. Self-defense means you should have not just equal ability to do injury but Superior ability.

Essentially my right to live music I must have the right to bring it on to a knife fight.
 
CLAX1911 said:
What gets me is they'll say stuff like you have the right to self-defense but that's only unless someone shoots you. Self-defense means you should have not just equal ability to do injury but Superior ability.

Essentially my right to live music I must have the right to bring it on to a knife fight.
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I'm pretty sure you meant: Essentially my right to live means I must have the right to bring it on to a knife fight.

But a right to live music is pretty funny. :)
 
RF667799 said:
Well he might be. I know I'm not.
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Statistically speaking you know laws of averages and all that. You can't avoid becoming a statistic by changing your behavior. That's not possible statistics are the God and it just does what it wants.
 
ajn678 said:
Except for that the fact that you are.
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Where do you come up with such silly notions? Who has misled you so badly?
 
ajn678 said:
time.com

Owning Guns Puts People in Your Home at Greater Risk of Being Killed, New Study Shows

A new study shows that people living in homes with guns face substantially higher risks of being fatally assaulted.
time.com time.com
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.01% of the people they studied, died of homicide in 12 years? I guess that shows that twice the rate of a really small number is still a really small number.

Notable that they seemingly abandoned the "gun deaths" trope, and made their determination by considering homicides committed by any means. I guess they think there is something magic about a gun that leads people to stab someone with a knife. More likely, they just wanted bigger numbers.

Where does that study say anything at all about gun owners? It seems to deliberately exclude them. I'm a gun owner. So that study says nothing about my risk. Nor does it really say anything about the risk for the people who live in my house.
 
RF667799 said:
.01% of the people they studied, died of homicide in 12 years? I guess that shows that twice the rate of a really small number is still a really small number.

Notable that they seemingly abandoned the "gun deaths" trope, and made their determination by considering homicides committed by any means. I guess they think there is something magic about a gun that leads people to stab someone with a knife. More likely, they just wanted bigger numbers.

Where does that study say anything at all about gun owners? It seems to deliberately exclude them. I'm a gun owner. So that study says nothing about my risk. Nor does it really say anything about the risk for the people who live in my house.
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You have poor reading comprehension. You can read more about this here. They link several studies. I will note you haven't linked a single one to back up what you claim.

www.americanprogress.org

Debunking the ‘Guns Make Us Safer’ Myth

Despite arguments from the gun lobby and its allies, guns used for self-defense are not common, beneficial for society, or efficient in deterring mass shootings or criminal victimization.
www.americanprogress.org www.americanprogress.org
 
ajn678 said:
You have poor reading comprehension. You can read more about this here. They link several studies. I will note you haven't linked a single one to back up what you claim.

www.americanprogress.org

Debunking the ‘Guns Make Us Safer’ Myth

Despite arguments from the gun lobby and its allies, guns used for self-defense are not common, beneficial for society, or efficient in deterring mass shootings or criminal victimization.
www.americanprogress.org www.americanprogress.org
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I'll note you haven't addressed a single one of my criticisms of the study, nor does your study support your claim anyway.

I'm not going onto yet another biased study when you're already floundering around in the first mess you posted.
 
love Key and Peele


I think every person who is anti-gun should self identify when calling police to aid them - and note that they DO NOT want guns involved

Yeah .,.... see, liberals area anti-gun until they need someone with guns ... then they're very pro-gun
 
Rich2018 said:
Bummed out that you got beat by PSG, I was hoping for the £10M if you won the Champions League (from the sale of Raphinha).
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Inter* lol
 
Bodi said:
Conservative Gun Nuts fail to understand history and the damage that the 2nd Amendment has caused... but they don't care. They are Nuts.




d
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According to the CDC legal guns stop over 1 million violent crimes in any year. There are 15000 homicides by gun 53% by blacks alone. Do the math. Legal guns save lives
 
SoccerCoach said:
According to the CDC legal guns stop over 1 million violent crimes in any year. There are 15000 homicides by gun 53% by blacks alone. Do the math. Legal guns save lives
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Gun lobby propaganda. The CDC has never said that. Others have used the survey data to make that specious claim.

Defensive Gun Use Statistics: America’s Life-Saving Gun Incidents (2024)
Although the CDC did release a comprehensive study citing 60,000-2,500,000 defensive use cases each year, the government agency quickly withdrew its findings. Self-defense is subjective and, therefore, challenging to identify. Thus, we must understand the debate before accurately assessing how many defensive gun uses are possible.


Variations in Reporting

Although we can’t say exactly how many DGUs occur each year, we can deduce whether they are common or not based on the information that we do have. Various surveys from the early 1990s to 2023 gave us the 60,000-2,500,000 use case estimate.

Defensive gun use has no singular definition. Some researchers refer to the individual’s feelings about the situation. Others assess only those actively involved in violent crimes.

When Defensive Gun Use Doesn’t Work

Although the research is limited, a 2009 study in Philadelphia does shed light on instances where gunshot victims failed to thwart an attacker.

The study focused solely on gunshot victims who were over 21 and in possession of a firearm at the time of the assault. The control group were individuals of similar age and gender in Philadelphia at the same time of the shooting.

Here are factors to consider regarding incidents where an armed person was injured in a shooting-related attack:

  • Alcohol and illicit drugs were often a factor in the shooting.
  • 1-sided conflicts resulted in fewer shootings than 2-sided ones.
  • Reaction time was paramount in both one-sided and two-sided interactions. However, those who had time to react in two-sided interactions were more likely to be shot than those who had no reaction time.
 
poppopfox said:
Gun lobby propaganda. The CDC has never said that. Others have used the survey data to make that specious claim.

Defensive Gun Use Statistics: America’s Life-Saving Gun Incidents (2024)
Although the CDC did release a comprehensive study citing 60,000-2,500,000 defensive use cases each year, the government agency quickly withdrew its findings. Self-defense is subjective and, therefore, challenging to identify. Thus, we must understand the debate before accurately assessing how many defensive gun uses are possible.


Variations in Reporting

Although we can’t say exactly how many DGUs occur each year, we can deduce whether they are common or not based on the information that we do have. Various surveys from the early 1990s to 2023 gave us the 60,000-2,500,000 use case estimate.

Defensive gun use has no singular definition. Some researchers refer to the individual’s feelings about the situation. Others assess only those actively involved in violent crimes.

When Defensive Gun Use Doesn’t Work

Although the research is limited, a 2009 study in Philadelphia does shed light on instances where gunshot victims failed to thwart an attacker.

The study focused solely on gunshot victims who were over 21 and in possession of a firearm at the time of the assault. The control group were individuals of similar age and gender in Philadelphia at the same time of the shooting.

Here are factors to consider regarding incidents where an armed person was injured in a shooting-related attack:

  • Alcohol and illicit drugs were often a factor in the shooting.
  • 1-sided conflicts resulted in fewer shootings than 2-sided ones.
  • Reaction time was paramount in both one-sided and two-sided interactions. However, those who had time to react in two-sided interactions were more likely to be shot than those who had no reaction time.
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Glad to see you posting support for civilian concealed carry.

From your link:

“On average, guns are used in 1,800,000 self-defense incidents annually. Comparatively, between 1.1 and 1.2 million crimes are reported annually. Therefore, defensive gun use is more common than crime.”

And:

“Defensive Gun Use in the U.S. Wrap-Up

Although many dispute the plausibility of more than one million DGUs yearly, it is entirely plausible. With millions of gun owners in the U.S. and millions of unreported crimes, more civilians likely stop threats than are harmed by them.

Furthermore, states with permitless carry and stand-your-ground laws experience reduced violent crime rates. Therefore, armed civilians are, at least, not a danger to society.”
 
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