High cost has many diabetics cutting back on insulin

[Excon]

This was before "they can die in the street, **** em" was literally GOP party platform.

Well tata for now.
I have to go down to the VA and pick up my 90 supply of Levemir, along with some Metformin SA and even some Glipizide.

 

[Deuce]

Well tata for now.
I have to go down to the VA and pick up my 90 supply of Levemir, along with some Metformin SA and even some Glipizide.

You're welcome.

 

[year2late]

OK, different perspective here.

Here are the complications of diabetes

heart disease

kidney disease (think dialysis)

blindness

vascular disease (think ampuations)

infection (think sepsis,pneuemonia and more amputations)

stroke


Diabetics that control their sugar can dramatically reduce the serious health consequences of their diabetes. Poorly treated diabetes essentially creates large numbers of people who will not die immedialtly, but will need ongoing very expensive long term care that they will likely not be able to afford.


Making sure these people have access to affordable high quality reliable insulin and blood testing products? Seems pretty cheap to me.


I am not sure if the companies are extorting the patients or just recouping development costs. But let me say that the pharmaceutical industry in this country has not done much to win my trust.:lol:

 

[GottaGo]

1. Good for you, you found the report I quoted from. :thumbs:
2. Doesn't have to be the primary for type 1's to be effective. This argument sounds like you want to be picky. Wanting a more effective insulin requires the time, efforts and money of others. No reason to expend those if there is no exclusivity given for the results.

Picky? No. Alive? Yes. I am a Type 1 diabetic. I can survive without long acting insulin, but I cannot survive without short acting.

It's not a matter of 'more effective', its a matter of addressing food consumption. Or perhaps we should give that up also? Or just bow to Big Pharma because we are dependent......

 

[GottaGo]

$24.88 a vial at WalMart.

The insulin offered at Wal-Mart is an antiquated basis and has a variable performance. NPH is mid acting, 70/30 is a blend of short and mid, and Regular can be used as a short acting in a pinch, but it's results are unpredictable, as the insulin it's self is unstable.

https://insulinnation.com/treatment/why-walmart-insulins-arent-the-answer-to-high-insulin-prices

 

[MTAtech]

Back in the 1970s, those needing dialysis often went without treatment if they had no coverage. The result was death for those patients.

Hearing this, President Nixon asked Congress to pass a law making it a government responsibility to pay for dialysis. Congress passed this law, called the 1972 Medicare kidney amendments (pdf - pg 3 and 19).

A law that should never have been passed.

So, Americans should just be allowed to die when the richest nation in the world had the power and resources to do something about it?

Your reply raises a number of questions:
-- what would Jesus have done?
-- why do conservatives say that they love America but seem to hate Americans?

No, Nixon did the right thing for a change.

 

[Taylor]

The insulin offered at Wal-Mart is an antiquated basis and has a variable performance. NPH is mid acting, 70/30 is a blend of short and mid, and Regular can be used as a short acting in a pinch, but it's results are unpredictable, as the insulin it's self is unstable.

Someone should spend a lot of time and effort developing a newer version that performs better and is more stable.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

From what I understand, the actual production of insulin is now a rather straightforward process. I can't imagine that it costs more to produce than, say, Tylenol. Why are we putting up with manufacturing profiting so much off of the need of others?

We are "putting up with it" because the pharmaceutical companies OWN the process to produce Insulin. The companies are allowed to charge whatever they feel like for the things that they produce using processes that they OWN.

People are completely free to go to another source, which offers a different price, if they don't like the price that the companies that OWN the process want to charge.

It's what's known as "the free market", and to TAKE other people's property simply because you don't like the price that they are charging is SOCIALISM.

And SOCIALISM is merely a term that people use to disguise COMMUNISM.

And COMMUNISM means DICTATORSHIP!!!

Right?

Just another example of people (shareholders, business owners) getting fat off of unearned income while the rest of society suffers to fund their lavish lifestyles.

What do you mean "unearned income"? They BOUGHT the rights to produce something and that means that they have the right to set whatever price they want to set for that thing.

If you don't like the way that they do business, don't buy what they are selling!

That's how "free enterprise" works and anyone who doesn't like it is a SOCIALIST.

And a SOCIALIST is merely a disguised term for COMMUNIST.

And anyone who is a COMMUNIST isn't a REAL AMERICAN.

Right?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Why? Okay lets just stop production. You need insulin? Produce it yourself.
People are not and should never be entitled to the product and services of another.

Absolutely!!!!

If you don't like the way that the American Free Enterprise Capitalist marketplace works, find another.

Right?

PS - You do realize that Insulin was discovered through research paid for by the government of Canada, don't you? You do realize that the method of synthesizing Insulin was discovered through research paid for by the governments of the United States of America and Germany, don't you? You do realize that "recombinant Insulin" was developed by an American non-profit organization and (at roughly the same time) by an American venture capitalist founded company, don't you? Obviously, since the American "for profit" company was solely responsible for the discovery, manufacture, and improvement of Insulin, that means that other "for profit" companies have the sole right to produce Insulin and those people who don't want to pay what those "for profit" companies charge are fully at liberty to find another source of supply,

Right?

 

[year2late]

So, Americans should just be allowed to die when the richest nation in the world had the power and resources to do something about it?

Your reply raises a number of questions:
-- what would Jesus have done?
-- why do conservatives say that they love America but seem to hate Americans?

No, Nixon did the right thing for a change.

To the bolded...I think we need to be pragmatic.

Dying quick is cheap.

Living with the complications of poorly or inadequately treated diabetes is VERY expensive in many ways. It can force a person to be on dialysis - very very expensive short and long term. Many of the complications will render a person unable to work and support himself or his family. The cost to the tax payers is massive.

 

[GottaGo]

Someone should spend a lot of time and effort developing a newer version that performs better and is more stable.

Newer, more stable insulins exist (analogs). Perhaps there are meds that can be developed for addressing Type 2 diabetes, but insulin is pretty much it for Type 1s.

 

[Anthony60]

The insulin offered at Wal-Mart is an antiquated basis and has a variable performance. NPH is mid acting, 70/30 is a blend of short and mid, and Regular can be used as a short acting in a pinch, but it's results are unpredictable, as the insulin it's self is unstable.

https://insulinnation.com/treatment/why-walmart-insulins-arent-the-answer-to-high-insulin-prices

Many people only use R & N, long acting is not always necessary. I never heard anything about unpredictability in either, no more so than the others.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Well then 'We the people' should elect those who would put the management of insulin under government control.

Because whilst we might not be entitled to products and services, some simply serve the public good. Insulin (and healthcare in general) is one.

What you appear to be completely ignoring is that what you are suggesting is that "A" should pay for something that "A" doesn't need but that "B" wants. That flies in the face of all "conservative values" and is "unAmerican".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I live there. That's how I know it's better. Far better. Try and talk any Canadian into switching to an American based system. Very very very few will agree.

They did a poll in Canada on who the greatest Canadian of all time was. Wasn't a hockey player. Wasn't a Prime Minister. Was the guy who brought in Universal Healthcare...Tommy Douglas.

If you don't believe me, look up the facts. Canadians pay far less, and have better outcomes, such as longer lives, lower infant mortality, etc. You've just let others tell you what to think, instead of putting in the effort to learn for yourself.

But you do have to admit that the US produces much bigger medical care bills than Canada does, so that means that the US system is much better than the Canadian one. I mean, look at the situation with "Payless" and "Palessi", which of those sells the types of shoes that you really want to buy.

Right?

 

[GottaGo]

Many people only use R & N, long acting is not always necessary. I never heard anything about unpredictability in either, no more so than the others.

When you have a predictable extended rise in efficacy in a single dose, continuing with a peak and slow decline, the insulin is considered 'stable.'

When the insulin rise is not consistent, not rising in a predictable time frame, it is considered unstable.

Most analog insulins are stable, N and R not so much.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

That is an argument against the government providing treatment. Society should not be burdened with "infinitely steep" demands.

Did you know that Canada (as just one example) provides the same quality of health care as the US does at 48.05% of the per capita cost in the US?

Did you know that [Canadian Taxes] + [Canadian Personal Cost of obtaining Health Care Insurance] < [American Taxes] + [American Personal Cost of obtaining Health Care Insurance]?

Did you know that the percentage of Canadians who have health care insurance (that's 100%) is higher than the percentage of Americans who have health care insurance (that's around 87.8%).

Did you know that if you compare the "average wait time" of the Canadians who obtain medical care to that of the Americans who obtain medical care, the "average wait time" for the Canadians is longer, BUT if you compare the "average wait time" for ALL Canadians to the "average wait time" for ALL Americans the "wait time" for Americans is longer?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

How does someone who buys shares of a company and collects dividends manufacture and provide treatment?

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

The "Book Answer" is - "By investing in the company so that the company can use that money to fund research and development of new products that better serve needs."

The "REAL Answer" is - "Because not a dime of the money that is used to purchase stock that is not sold directly by the company issuing the stock (because what actually happens is that the purchase price is NOT paid to the company, but rather to some third-party), they don't contribute at all to the manufacture of whatever it is the company manufactures. Not only that, but they probably don't actually care what it is that the company manufactures because their objective in buying the stock is to resell the stock for more than they paid for it.".

 

[prometeus]

And yet another invalid reply. You are not making a valid argument.

Your denial will not change the facts. You posted something utterly moronic and now that you were called on it you are in denial.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Approx cost of quick acting Insulin in Australia is approx $6.00 for around 3 months supply if you have a health Care Card and just under $40 for a 3 months supply if you don't. The long acting Insulin is the same price but the supply will last longer as you will generally only inject that once a day.

Much more affordable here for those who need access to it in an affordable manner and actually do rely on it to stay alive.

Sure it is "more affordable" but that's because Australia is a SOCIALIST country with EXTORTIONATE tax rates. [The Australian corporate tax rate is around 29.25% while in the US it is a paltry (rough average) 27% and in Australia the person income tax rate maxes out at 47% while in the US it is ONLY 51.3%.]

I know that this is true because FOX News says so.

 

[HenryChinaski]

If your stance is literally "let people die if they're too poor to live" then I really just don't know how to talk to you.

I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.

You can't to sociopaths.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Diabetes is a lifestyle choice? Oh wait, I see this is sarcasm

Did you happen to notice that the "argument" almost exactly parallels the arguments against providing anti-AIDS medications?

 

[prometeus]

Did you know that Canada (as just one example) provides the same quality of health care as the US does at 48.05% of the per capita cost in the US?

Did you know that [Canadian Taxes] + [Canadian Personal Cost of obtaining Health Care Insurance] < [American Taxes] + [American Personal Cost of obtaining Health Care Insurance]?

Did you know that the percentage of Canadians who have health care insurance (that's 100%) is higher than the percentage of Americans who have health care insurance (that's around 87.8%).

Did you know that if you compare the "average wait time" of the Canadians who obtain medical care to that of the Americans who obtain medical care, the "average wait time" for the Canadians is longer, BUT if you compare the "average wait time" for ALL Canadians to the "average wait time" for ALL Americans the "wait time" for Americans is longer?

Knowing facts that contradict a narrative that is fed to someone requires not only integrity to admit being wrong but the intellect to asses it in the first place.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Starting a non-profit manufacturing and treatment organization.

Did you know that it is against the law to produce anything that someone owns the exclusive right to produce without getting their permission first?

Did you know that the usual way of getting someone's permission to produce something that someone owns the exclusive right to produce is to pay them for the right to produce that thing?

Did you know that the pharmaceutical companies will gladly give you permission to produce 100% of the Insulin they currently produce, and to do so as a "not for profit" company, while completely ceasing any production which might compete with the Insulin that you produce PROVIDED that you pay them (at least) 100% of the profit that they could potentially make from producing and selling Insulin themselves?

Did you know that, since your "not for profit" would have to calculate the amounts that it pays to the pharmaceutical companies for the right to produce Insulin into its "production cost", your "not for profit" would end up having to actually charge MORE than the pharmaceutical companies now charge?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

A few pages behind, but perhaps you should do some reading on 99 year patents? Several of the synthetic insulin producing pharmas hold extended patents, so that generics cannot be produced.

When I was first diagnosed 12 or so years ago with Type 1 diabetes, I could pay cash for a 100 unit vial of insulin $119. Today, over $300. Same safety standards, same packaging.

https://www.drugs.com/price-guide/novolog

Would you like to bet that the upper management personnel of the companies that produce the Insulin have NOT received raises totalling 152% in the past 12 years?

 

[trouble13]

Let others produce it. Do you think you should be a millionaire profiting off of disease? We're not talking about subsistence here. We're talking about investors who didn't develop it, didn't produce it, and just collect checks. These are leeches on society.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Would you be happier if they didnt invest their money in curing diseases?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk