Help Wanted

[MaggieD]

Anytime Pinkie. Self defense is kind of like Shakespear, I know the analogy sounds odd but it fits, Shakespear can be recited, taught, analyzed, but in practice only those who truly appreciate the bard can pull it off. Self defense likewise can be taught, analyzed, etc. but it must be approached with the will to remain unharmed and the mental state to pull it off, I remember after we had a serial killer problem in my state many women took the Sheriff's class, which was okay, but I proved to a then coworker that not everything works at all times, many have trouble for instance putting a wrist lock on me which was a heavy skillset of the class, I've worked out for years and am a drummer, strong wrists negate most of the leverage gained from that type of defense. As well there are certain parts of the body that work great "if" the attacker has a normal pain threshold or average build, but fail against larger people or people with insanely high pain tolerance.

Ultimately there are a couple of people in this situation that need to understand that the self interests of your niece are more important than 1) Their own safety(cough husband cough) and 2) Their own preferred way of handling the situation. This is not an optimal situation and it needs to be dealt with properly. cpwill probably gave the best advice here but I am always happy to lend my perspective when something important is on the line.

Women (myself included) who take self-defense classes that show a variety of ways we can "get the upper hand" often forget that the first sign that one is being attacked may be a right-cross-lights-out left hook to the head.

Still, it's better to know these things than not . . . perhaps the confidence and surroundings awareness it gives women to take these classes helps them to not become victims in the first place . . . but odds are pretty much in the attacker's favor hands-down. It's not only "the knowing," it's the practice.

 

[Pinkie]

Install an alarm system with multiple sirens. Maybe 2 to a room and 2 outside. The noise is deafening. You don't need monthly service. I've done this and it is very effective. Probable investment is less than $300.

Thank you, specklebang! May I ask where you bought your equipment?

 

[LaMidRighter]

Women (myself included) who take self-defense classes that show a variety of ways we can "get the upper hand" often forget that the first sign that one is being attacked may be a right-cross-lights-out left hook to the head.

Still, it's better to know these things than not . . . perhaps the confidence and surroundings awareness it gives women to take these classes helps them to not become victims in the first place . . . but odds are pretty much in the attacker's favor hands-down. It's not only "the knowing," it's the practice.

Absolutely, most attackers can be deterred if someone refuses to be a victim BUT it's not guaranteed. There are kill points, pain centers, etc. that no one is immune to, but execution is critical. The only way to have a chance is to know what is coming, this usually comes simply from observation and experience.

 

[Pinkie]

Women (myself included) who take self-defense classes that show a variety of ways we can "get the upper hand" often forget that the first sign that one is being attacked may be a right-cross-lights-out left hook to the head.

Still, it's better to know these things than not . . . perhaps the confidence and surroundings awareness it gives women to take these classes helps them to not become victims in the first place . . . but odds are pretty much in the attacker's favor hands-down. It's not only "the knowing," it's the practice.

I love this book:

I try to get every man, woman and child I love to read it, because the whole point of it is, fear is a survival instinct and being able to recognize and respond to it can keep you alive. It has almost nothing to do with buying guns, getting restraining orders, etc.

If you haven't yet read it, I hope you will. It's even available online now, and it's in every library in the country.

Short but true story: I went to college with a bunch of lovely young women who had been raised on Long Island and thought that a broken nail was a 3 act tragedy. One night, as we were drinking and bull****ting, we got to talking about "what to do if some man tries to drag you into a dark alley to rape you".

ALL of them said "Why, I'd try and talk to him. Get to understand his problems, maybe try and help him."

I said "Ladies, if you don't get past this bull****, you are all gonna die."

They called me a big meanie who just couldn't understand the "problems of men who commit crimes".

Hope none of them ever met one IRL since then!

 

[MaggieD]

I love this book:

I try to get every man, woman and child I love to read it, because the whole point of it is, fear is a survival instinct and being able to recognize and respond to it can keep you alive. It has almost nothing to do with buying guns, getting restraining orders, etc.

If you haven't yet read it, I hope you will. It's even available online now, and it's in every library in the country.

Short but true story: I went to college with a bunch of lovely young women who had been raised on Long Island and thought that a broken nail was a 3 act tragedy. One night, as we were drinking and bull****ting, we got to talking about "what to do if some man tries to drag you into a dark alley to rape you".

ALL of them said "Why, I'd try and talk to him. Get to understand his problems, maybe try and help him."

I said "Ladies, if you don't get past this bull****, you are all gonna die."

They called me a big meanie who just couldn't understand the "problems of men who commit crimes".

Hope none of them ever met one IRL since then!

I just downloaded it to my Kindle. $6.39

Thanks!!!

 

[Pinkie]

I just downloaded it to my Kindle. $6.39

Thanks!!!

It has a very valuable second benefit, too, Mags....it teaches the reader to distinguish between anxiety and fear. I re-read it at least once a year, and I bet I have given it away 50 xs by now.

I hope you love it as much as I do; it literally changed my life.

 

[specklebang]

I found a local guy who works for alarm companies and peddles his own on the side. I do believe you can get a perfectly adequate system at Radio Shack or Home Depot. You don't need a elaborate one, that neighborhood will be amateurs. Windows, doors maybe one motion sensor. But be sure it accepts multiple sirens. I'll totally guess and say that $300 might even get one installed by Craigs List service guys. There are even off brand response services for like $9 a month but really, the sirens are the key. An explosion of sound makes people run.

Thank you, specklebang! May I ask where you bought your equipment?

 

[PirateMk1]

(Just a note, before I tell what's going on:

This concerns my family. People I love enough, I'd die for them. If you have a rage on for me, warranted or not, I'd take it as a kindness if you'd refrain from using this thread to air it, k? I wouldn't be discussing it at all if I didn't think it might could help what I consider a fairly serious problem, so set my hair aflame, if you must, some other time, please.)

As briefly as possibly: back in 2008, my brother bought a home in an outer ring suburb here in Cleveland, even though he had a paid in full, well-made house inside the city which he had finally emptied of all adult children. Dunno why; to appease my evil SIL, I suppose, but it is what it is.

After he bought his 2nd home, his youngest daughter moved in to his Cleveland home. She has since married, but her husband is afraid of her -- and she weighs 100 lbs soaking wet.

Now, the problem. My niece will not carry a gun or even keep one in the house, and since 2008, several homes on the street where she lives (rent free, in my brother's house) have been abandoned by their owners. Those that remain occupied are much more likely to have renters than owners, and many such renters appear to be one adult and 10 or 15 teenaged boys. I myself won't go see her at her home because over a year ago, I spotted two of those Presa Canario dogs running loose in a neighbor's yard. (These dogs are like 200 lbs pit bulls with bad attitudes, and are a favorite with drug dealers and other unsavory types.)

Anyway, my brother is seriously worried about her and wants me to force the city to tear down the vacant houses, for starters. After he was done telling me that THREE homes were stripped of copper, etc. just last week, I'm fairly alarmed myself.

I'm no miracle worker and this city is not willing to accept the cost of destroying nuisance structures, removing the debris, backfilling the basement, managing the vacant lots, etc. I might could get this done -- maybe even as to all three homes -- but not anytime soon.

Nobody in the family is willing to consider selling or walking away from the paid in full, Cleveland home and my instructions are to return the neighborhood to a safe condition. My niece thinks she's a bad ass (and has a bad attitude) because she once spent a couple of hours alone in an airport, on a layover. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm not. I'm gonna try and find her a self-defense class that teaches awareness and avoidance, etc., rather than hand to hand combat and then try and "influence" her to go with me by claiming I'm too shy to go alone -- but I'm not optimistic this will work.

Meanwhile, I told my brother to light up the house on all sides, all night, every night and to press my niece and her wimpy husband to reconsider their absolute refusal to even carry a personal alarm, nevermind pepper spray, a tazer or a gun. She already has an ankle-bitter of a dog and won't consider getting a larger one that might be better at protecting her.

Despite being an idiot and stubborn as hell, I love my niece and I surely do love my brother, and I do not want her harmed.

While I try and get the city to tear down the vacant homes, can you think of anything else I should be doing? Would it be realistic to try and get the cops to step up patrols in her area? (We've had severe reductions in our police force here; I'd really have to be the squeaky wheel -- and how long would that work?)

I'm not anxious to saddle my brother with the expense of an alarm system, and 99% of the time, the cops just ignore them. I'm operating on the "criminals are lazy so just don't be the easiest person/home to attack" theory, but it's cold comfort.

This is hauling a lot of family bull**** out into the light of air; I know my brother would never have asked me for help or even admitted there was a problem unless he was seriously worried, and not without good reason. I have to tread lightly in this situation, and the worry of this is hard on me.

Anything you can suggest that these foolish people I love would be willing to consider and might help would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks so much, guys.

Hey Pinkie hang in there honey darlin. Dont fret. All the advice I have read on this thread from Cpwill, Lamidrighter, MaggieD, and Specklebang is good and you should utilize it, especially MaggieD's about just evicting the kid. IMO hers was the best option. As far as selling the property sometimes you just have to cut bait and let it go EVEN if they have to walk away with nothing. It sucks but having the the kid around to bitch about it, is the better alternitive to riding out a situation that is not going to improve in the near future and get themselves hurt or worse. I have a feeling your brother wouldnt want that on his consous when he has the power to do something about it. I would modify it a bit though and have him tell her she needs to move BEFORE he files the paperwork so she has a chance to make the decision move herself. Set a deadline of a week or less and tell her if she dont move herself she will be moved out legaly regardless of her feelings on the subject. Just be blunt to the point and forthright dont dance around the subject. You are an attorney so treat him and her like a client. Tell them what they NEED to know and dont cushion it. I have to do it for my clients that have expectations that dont fit reality. Hopefully they understand. If they dont, well you tried and did your best, they just didnt heed your advice. You can lead a horse to water, you cant make them drink. Whatever you do, dont beat yourself up, because you did what you could the best you could, and in the end it is up to THEM. Self defence is good and all but really should be a last resort especially in indian country which is where the kid currently resides. Vigililence and paranoia are gona have to be the words of the day till she gets out of there. Thats the key to this situation getting the hell out of dodge. The sooner the better. Alarms and such while helpful and all, are just, to be blunt, stopgap measures at best. I've been to Cleveland in some of seeder parts of it, and the bad element there quite frankly may not be scared off by loud noise and more likely attracted to it. One more thing kid, I said it before but I am going to say it again, dont beat yourself up over something you cant control. You are going out of your way to help them. Maybe they see that, maybe they dont. They have to make their choices, hopefully they make intelligent ones.

I wish you and yours a very happy Thanksgiving, and your family should be thankful they got you watching their six. I wish you all the best luck, and hopefully things turn out just fine.

P.S. I know of NO familiy that is NOT dysfunctional in any myrid of ways. Your family is the same as any other in that regard.

 

[MaggieD]

It has a very valuable second benefit, too, Mags....it teaches the reader to distinguish between anxiety and fear. I re-read it at least once a year, and I bet I have given it away 50 xs by now.

I hope you love it as much as I do; it literally changed my life.

I just read part of the first review and had to laugh. The review said it was an excellent book, btw, I'm anxious to read it. I'm just finishing the book about SEAL TEAM 6, so it's next up.

But back to the review: The reviewer said one of the things the author said to do was to stop watching the news. Boy, did that ring true! My mom and her almost-husband watch the news every single night -- Chicago news. They are absolutely paranoid. They live in a little bungalow in suburban Chicago, and as soon as the lights in the house go on, they draw the blinds. There's 6 concrete steps up to their front door, and they won't have the living room or dining room windows open at night for fear someone will sneak in them. They draw the blinds because they worry about drive-by shootings. :rofl When they go to take out the garbage, they lock the back door. When they used to have cookouts (too old now), they locked the back door. (The back door is a side door on a 125-ft lot. When the yard would be filled with people, to use the bathroom, you had to ask for a key, for God's sake.)

"Where do you GET these ideas?? Drive-by shootings in THIS town? Breaking in a front window while you're sitting 10 feet from the windows?" Maggie!!!! You should really start watching the news!!!"

Anxious for that read. Thanks again.

 

[Pinkie]

Pirate, you are a sweet, sweet man.

All y'all have made me feel so much better. It's like Pavlov's dog to come running to me, being someone I love, saying you're in danger and I was tearing myself up trying to see a way to give them what they want.

I have peace of mind again, and I owe all y'all big time.

Thank you!

 

[cpwill]

Hot damn, cpwill, I am gonna just print your reply and hand it to my brother to read.

That was exactly right -- you should be doing family therapy, not whatever secret agent **** you are doing today for the military. (Maybe if you came armed, you could improve my family? LOL.)

I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Sometimes sincere vehement disagreement does not stop us all from being a community (a cranky, disfunctional, weird, community). I sincerely hope that you are successful in slapping your family in the face with reality before Reality does. It's never easy watching someone you love make self-destructive decisions.

 

[cpwill]

Women (myself included) who take self-defense classes that show a variety of ways we can "get the upper hand" often forget that the first sign that one is being attacked may be a right-cross-lights-out left hook to the head.

I don't know about others, but generally I have always found that my favorite way to attack someone is quickly, with overwhelming violence, when they are not expecting it. I wouldn't imagine that street thugs who would attack a woman would somehow still have the kind of sense of honor that requires them to do so from the front and s-l-o-w-l-y attack j-u-s-t l-i-k-e t-h-e g-u-y i-n c-l-a-s-s. Bruce Lee was killed by a stage gun. I don't imagine most street types are much tougher than he was.

Still, it's better to know these things than not . . . perhaps the confidence and surroundings awareness it gives women to take these classes helps them to not become victims in the first place . . . but odds are pretty much in the attacker's favor hands-down. It's not only "the knowing," it's the practice.

Bingo. Situational Awareness is the best thing to learn.

 

[joko104]

I remember once driving thru Cleveland and remember looking down from a raised Interstate at blocks and blocks of mostly abandoned row houses. Most were derrelict, boarded over, junk cars parked here and there, most abandoned. But about every 5th house clearly someone was highly maintaining the house. A horrific neigbhborhood and I remember my wife saying how sad it was for those people living there. Probably their house is paid for and they can't afford to move anywhere because the house wouldn't sell for anything. But the neighborhood is obviously extremely high crime and high drug area and an extremely dangerous place to live.

Candidly, I don't think you can really do anything really. I doubt you could get the city to do anything and obviously she's not going to change.

You can't protect a person from his/herself.

That's not any advice, but my inclination is there isn't any advise that would be accepted. The best advice would be to get a big mean looking dog for inside the house, but I doubt she'll listen to anyone. Trying to get the city to do anything is very unlikely to succeed - and by itself that's not going to accomplish much anyway.

Sorry, Pinkie, but sounds like she's dug in her heels, you don't necessarily even know the real reason she wants to be there, and if people rag on her about it that'll just drive her away.

Your brother is acting stupidly as is your niece, and your brother wants you to do the impossible because he won't stop being stupid or for money reasons? And your niece if being foolish too? There is no good answer to this in my opinion. You can't help people who won't help themselves. So, if possible, my suggestion is to emotionally detach from the situation (not relatives) and remind yourself you didn't make this situation. When your brother asked for you to help, just tell him the same advice - sell the house for whatever he can get even if just a dollar to anyone but your neice, have the power cut off there, and whatever else it takes to get your niece out it. If he won't do it, then its his doing - nothing your fault for anything that happens.

I don't see any solution for YOU - but then YOU didn't make this problem and THEY refuse to cure it. You can't protect people from themselves.

 

[Pinkie]

I think I'm gonna tape your reply to my bathroom mirror, so I see it every morning until this works itself out, joko.

Then I'll keep it up to remind me of the truth for when my evil SIL blames me for not preventing whatever may happen that finally brings this insanity to an end.

Cuz brotherman, I can see that bull**** rolling down the tracks at me too, at lightening speed.

 

[joko104]

That is one of the lamest of all excuses a person can make - that it's your fault for not stopping that person from doing something stupid. And that you have a duty to pity them too.

I learned long ago that if you do something for somehow, they then decide that YOU owe them. The more you do for that person, the more you are expected to do more. That is an odd but common psychology. And then when things go bad, more than anything its your fault because you didn't do enough - so now its your duty to fix (which often means pay) for that too. Some people will most "bite the hand that feeds them" so to speak.

Srly, I know you care about your niece but how is any of this your problem? Why do they even think it's your task to do anything at all about any of this? Its not your kid. Not your house. He should get rid of the house. She should move out. That is the beginning and end of any rational advice you could give. But they already know that anyway.

To solve this ALL you have to do is solve all the problems of urban Cleveland. That's all. Just get the city to have the police - and with a 24/7 patrol assigned to her house - eliminate the crime and City Hall to take care of all the abandoned properties. That's it. Just totally change Cleveland. You can do that no problem, right?

And the reason you are supposed to do this impossible is??? There's nothing you can do. And if things go badly it wasn't your fault.

Good luck with it, Pinky.

 

[MaggieD]

I think I'm gonna tape your reply to my bathroom mirror, so I see it every morning until this works itself out, joko.

Then I'll keep it up to remind me of the truth for when my evil SIL blames me for not preventing whatever may happen that finally brings this insanity to an end.

Cuz brotherman, I can see that bull**** rolling down the tracks at me too, at lightening speed.

I had a sister-in-law that was the Drama Queen From Hell. Every problem in her life was magnified beyond belief. She would go on-and-on-and-on-and-on about her problem du jour with me all the while offering solutions. And she'd say, "Yes, but..." to every one of them.

When a lightbulb went on in my head that this was modus operandi for her, I finally said one day, "Look, I understand the problem. We don't need to discuss it anymore. If you want to discuss solutions with me, I'm your gal. If you just want to bitch about what is? Go find somebody else."

Keep that in your hip pocket.

 

[Goshin]

Sometimes things suck and there's little or nothing you can do about them, even if it involves people that you love.


This sounds like one of those times.

 

[lpast]

Pinky this is my opinion....The first thing you need to do is get your brother to talk his daughter into getting the hell out of that neighborhood right now...based on my experience its a matter of time before something bad befalls her...there is no one tough enough..not me not anyone to keep yourself safe compeletely in a neighborhood such as you described.
Your brother may not want to walk away from a fully paid for home...but that home may be worthless now...and it certainly isnt worth his daughters well being. He had to know that neighborhood was going bad and thats why he most likely bought t he second home....you need to tell him that you cant make the city do squat and that he needs to do whatever necessary to get his daughter out of harms way FIRST...the house is secondary in my mind...

 

[MaggieD]

Pinky this is my opinion....The first thing you need to do is get your brother to talk his daughter into getting the hell out of that neighborhood right now...based on my experience its a matter of time before something bad befalls her...there is no one tough enough..not me not anyone to keep yourself safe compeletely in a neighborhood such as you described.
Your brother may not want to walk away from a fully paid for home...but that home may be worthless now...and it certainly isnt worth his daughters well being. He had to know that neighborhood was going bad and thats why he most likely bought t he second home....you need to tell him that you cant make the city do squat and that he needs to do whatever necessary to get his daughter out of harms way FIRST...the house is secondary in my mind...

I completely agree with you. There is absolutely NO WAY to keep safe if one has been targeted. All the alarm systems, the mace, the self-defense courses, the sirens, WHATEVER, will not help a person if one becomes a target in a neighborhood like this.

That comes from the personal experience of a young and beautiful women who was chased out of her home by the neighborhood gangs. She was a little white girl in a black neighborhood. They wanted her gone. In her case, she was smart enough to sell her home and move. (I facilitated that.) If she hadn't? I'd have probably been attending her funeral. And there wasn't one thing anyone would have been able to do to stop it.

 

[Pinkie]

My niece is drop-dead gorgeous, confrontational and -- o joy! -- a bible thumper of the fundie variety, who thinks it's on HER PERSONALLY to "save" everyone by telling them "the Good News About Jesus"!

I'd say she's a target, wouldn't you guys?

She's also a rapid vegan who will NOT shut up about the "ethics" of eating "flesh".

I love me some crazy ass people, people!!

Family -- you can't stop loving them, and you can't kill them.

LOLOL.

 

[Goshin]

My niece is drop-dead gorgeous, confrontational and -- o joy! -- a bible thumper of the fundie variety, who thinks it's on HER PERSONALLY to "save" everyone by telling them "the Good News About Jesus"!

I'd say she's a target, wouldn't you guys?

She's also a rapid vegan who will NOT shut up about the "ethics" of eating "flesh".

I love me some crazy ass people, people!!

Family -- you can't stop loving them, and you can't kill them.

LOLOL.

A target? No offense hon, she's a Happy Meal with legs waiting for a hungry predator to come along.

 

[Pinkie]

BTW, I had a stray thought:

Is it even worthwhile to look at having this house moved? I've seen tv shows where they jack a home up, put it on a trailer and set it down on a new foundation elsewhere. I bet they could get a nice piece of farmland out in the country for dirt cheap.

I have no idea what such a thing would cost, but if it were financially viable, this is one idea my crazy relatives just might be willing to consider.

 

[Pinkie]

A target? No offense hon, she's a Happy Meal with legs waiting for a hungry predator to come along.

O, IMO, there'll be no "waiting" involved here, Goshin.

I need to keep reminding myself I cannot force them to face reality, because I am so upset I haven't slept and I'm smoking like a chimney.

 

[LaMidRighter]

BTW, I had a stray thought:

Is it even worthwhile to look at having this house moved? I've seen tv shows where they jack a home up, put it on a trailer and set it down on a new foundation elsewhere. I bet they could get a nice piece of farmland out in the country for dirt cheap.

I have no idea what such a thing would cost, but if it were financially viable, this is one idea my crazy relatives just might be willing to consider.

Can be quite pricey. It depends on what the foundation is like and how much work it would be to seperate the house from it, then if it's a large house it may have to be taken as sections and reassembled on the new site. Plus there is delivery and support, of course if you could find land for cheap it may still be less expensive that buying another house.

 

[LaMidRighter]

O, IMO, there'll be no "waiting" involved here, Goshin.

I need to keep reminding myself I cannot force them to face reality, because I am so upset I haven't slept and I'm smoking like a chimney.

First things first, calm down, there is absolutely no good that can come from burning yourself out. After you re center it's time to have a heart to heart with the niece about individuals who don't want to be saved and enjoy holding control of the situation, there is no reason for her to engage those individuals and her husband isn't a deterrent. Above all else keep a cool head, then give a reality check to your loved one.