Heaven and Hell

[ecofarm]

Uganda for one......what is the point...Here or there, it is a doctrine of hate and intolerance...

The point is that homophobia is not endemic, or even mostly due, to religion.

 

[Juanita]

The point is that homophobia is not endemic, or even mostly due, to religion.

Homophobia has a lot to do with religious views. That cannot be denied...

 

[Logicman]

Do not put "your" religion in my face... Who are you to say what is wrong and what is not...If one African gay is executed because of an American (or any other) evangelical fundamentalist going over to spread their propaganda of hate and intolerance, I would hold all Christians responsible. You people read a book and then try to dictate law, morals and everything else from a dam book...It is ridiculous...

Hey - trying to turn someone from sin and eternal damnation to righteousness isn't "hate" speech, as long as it's done with consideration. Over here it's called "Freedom of Speech." And we don't need the politically correct trying to dictate our values and our mission in the world.

 

[ecofarm]

Homophobia has a lot to do with religious views. That cannot be denied...

It's not dependent on religion. Talk to a few gang members on a street corner. None are religious, all homophobes.

 

[head of joaquin]

It's not dependent on religion. Talk to a few gang members on a street corner. None are religious, all homophobes.

Of course it isn't dependent on religion. The problem is, religion fuels violence and extremism in ways mere prejudice tends not to. Saying not only that you hate gays, but God hates gays, sanctions virtually any conduct against them.

Further unlike gang member bias, religion holds a honored place in our society. So when a gangmember insults gays, it's easy to ignore. When religious leaders attack gays, it has the backing of a venerable institution.

Big difference.

 

[Jack Hays]

Of course it isn't dependent on religion. The problem is, religion fuels violence and extremism in ways mere prejudice tends not to. Saying not only that you hate gays, but God hates gays, sanctions virtually any conduct against them.

Further unlike gang member bias, religion holds a honored place in our society. So when a gangmember insults gays, it's easy to ignore. When religious leaders attack gays, it has the backing of a venerable institution.

Big difference.

In most of sub-Saharan Africa the penalty for homosexuality is death, usually imposed by popular justice without the formality of a trial (although trials result in death sentences too). This has nothing to do with religion.eace

 

[head of joaquin]

In most of sub-Saharan Africa the penalty for homosexuality is death, usually imposed by popular justice without the formality of a trial (although trials result in death sentences too). This has nothing to do with religion.eace

Coming from you, I doubt your facts are correct.

But in any case, it doesn't go to the issue, since Africa, like most developing regions, hasn't really embraced secularism. For all you know, such laws (to the extent you didn't make them up) are the result of religious tradition or agitation.

So, your post goes to nothing.

 

[Jack Hays]

Coming from you, I doubt your facts are correct.

But in any case, it doesn't go to the issue, since Africa, like most developing regions, hasn't really embraced secularism. For all you know, such laws (to the extent you didn't make them up) are the result of religious tradition or agitation.

So, your post goes to nothing.

I lived there twelve years and traveled to 35 or so African countries. My post is derived from direct experience and observation.

 

[head of joaquin]

I lived there twelve years and traveled to 35 or so African countries. My post is derived from direct experience and observation.

So you studied the origin of anti-gay laws in Africa while travelling? Really?

I once travelled to Egypt, does that mean I'm an expert on Egyptian jurisprudence.

You need to try harder.

 

[Jack Hays]

So you studied the origin of anti-gay laws in Africa while travelling? Really?

I once travelled to Egypt, does that mean I'm an expert on Egyptian jurisprudence.

You need to try harder.

It means I lived among the people who hold those views. Direct contact, direct experience, direct observation.

 

[head of joaquin]

It means I lived among the people who hold those views. Direct contact, direct experience, direct observation.

So you didn't study the origins of the laws, and have no knowledge of whether they were based on religious lobbying or not.

All you're saying is that some Africans are prejudiced against gays, just like everybody else until recently.

 

[Jack Hays]

So you didn't study the origins of the laws, and have no knowledge of whether they were based on religious lobbying or not.

All you're saying is that some Africans are prejudiced against gays, just like everybody else until recently.

The prejudice derives from their traditional culture. Life's too short. It's back to the ignore list for you.

 

[Juanita]

Hey - trying to turn someone from sin and eternal damnation to righteousness isn't "hate" speech, as long as it's done with consideration. Over here it's called "Freedom of Speech." And we don't need the politically correct trying to dictate our values and our mission in the world.

You are speaking from a place of "your" religion...."You" believe in sin and eternal damnation. " You" believe that "your" righteousness is not hate speech... There is nothing politically correct about explaining to you people that "your" religion is not a State Religion as you seem to think.. Your values are not "the" values--they are "your" values.... Christianity is not the only religion in this country which you fail to realize and the rest of us don't need you to impose your belief system on the rest of us...Keep it in "your" church....

 

[Juanita]

In most of sub-Saharan Africa the penalty for homosexuality is death, usually imposed by popular justice without the formality of a trial (although trials result in death sentences too). This has nothing to do with religion.eace

In countries that have converted to Christianity like Uganda, American evangelicals have had a major impact on their antigay laws and their pray-the-gay-away tactics....

 

[Juanita]

It's not dependent on religion. Talk to a few gang members on a street corner. None are religious, all homophobes.

Where did these gangbangers get their homophobia from? Their parents ? Their Church? Their peers who got it from their parents or churches? Nobody is born homophobic..

 

[Juanita]

It's not dependent on religion. Talk to a few gang members on a street corner. None are religious, all homophobes.

Oh and when these gangbangers go to jail, guess who they just love to pieces?

 

[head of joaquin]

The prejudice derives from their traditional culture. Life's too short. It's back to the ignore list for you.

So you did research the laws? Wait you didn't. Yep you better ignore the truth.

 

[head of joaquin]

Where did these gangbangers get their homophobia from? Their parents ? Their Church? Their peers who got it from their parents or churches? Nobody is born homophobic..

There's a lot of truth in this. Doctrinal Christianity somehow got fixated on male/male sex. You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure out why.

 

[Logicman]

You are speaking from a place of "your" religion...."You" believe in sin and eternal damnation. " You" believe that "your" righteousness is not hate speech... There is nothing politically correct about explaining to you people that "your" religion is not a State Religion as you seem to think.. Your values are not "the" values--they are "your" values.... Christianity is not the only religion in this country which you fail to realize and the rest of us don't need you to impose your belief system on the rest of us...Keep it in "your" church....

Forget it. I (we) don't answer to you.

 

[Juanita]

Forget it. I (we) don't answer to you.

I'm glad that you get the point.... No you don't answer to me, but when I see you all spout your hate and intolerance, I will remind you that it "is" hate and intolerance and against God's natural laws...

 

[Logicman]

I'm glad that you get the point.... No you don't answer to me, but when I see you all spout your hate and intolerance, I will remind you that it "is" hate and intolerance and against God's natural laws...

Embracing sexual perversion is no virtue. And exercising hatred and intolerance against Bible-believing Christians is an affront to God and his creation.

I don't believe in hatred against non-believers, and preaching the Gospel is not hatred. So be careful in whom you seek to tar and feather.

I will also tell you that, IMO, the liberal 'progressive' movement is more regressive than that which purports to advance godly morality.

 

[head of joaquin]

Embracing sexual perversion is no virtue. And exercising hatred and intolerance against Bible-believing Christians is an affront to God and his creation.

I don't believe in hatred against non-believers, and preaching the Gospel is not hatred. So be careful in whom you seek to tar and feather.

I will also tell you that, IMO, the liberal 'progressive' movement is more regressive than that which purports to advance godly morality.

The reverso- meme in full flower. Those that oppose intolerance and indict fundies for it, are intolerant. Using this meme, the fundies would attack Jesus for what he said in Matthew 25.

It's all fundies got: disingenuous rhetoric. Since the don't have the mind of Christ. 1 Cor 2:16

 

[Logicman]

The reverso- meme in full flower. Those that oppose intolerance and indict fundies for it, are intolerant. Using this meme, the fundies would attack Jesus for what he said in Matthew 25.

Nonsense. When's the last time you were in a conservative church to find out what was going on?

It's all fundies got: disingenuous rhetoric. Since the don't have the mind of Christ. 1 Cor 2:16

How would you know who has the mind of Christ? You, who denies the Trinity and the fact that Jesus was always divine?

 

[head of joaquin]

Nonsense. When's the last time you were in a conservative church to find out what was going on?



How would you know who has the mind of Christ? You, who denies the Trinity and the fact that Jesus was always divine?

I love this meme: pretend that conservative churches don't bash gays by attacking me.

It's all you got: more disingenuous memes.

Here's your chance: denounce gay bashing and admit that judging gays is contrary to the gospel. I bet you can't do it. God has blinded all fundies and doesn't let them understand the gospel message anymore.

 

[Logicman]

I love this meme: pretend that conservative churches don't bash gays by attacking me.

It's all you got: more disingenuous memes.

Here's your chance: denounce gay bashing and admit that judging gays is contrary to the gospel. I bet you can't do it. God has blinded all fundies and doesn't let them understand the gospel message anymore.

You're off base again.

It's not gay bashing. If and when it's discussed in conservative churches it's identifying homosexual sex as being a sin.