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Heaven and Hell

calamity

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Does anyone not 12 or younger actually believe that the good, or more specifically, those who accept Jesus Christ as their savior, go to heaven while everyone else goes to hell? Seriously?
 

TiredOfLife

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Does anyone not 12 or younger actually believe that the good, or more specifically, those who accept Jesus Christ as their savior, go to heaven while everyone else goes to hell? Seriously?
It's a world of children. Some are just big enough to drive cars, own houses, and have kids of their own so yes, plenty of them believe it.
 

calamity

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Philosophically speaking, an afterlife makes as much sense to me as a beforelife.
 

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If the good people went to heaven and the bad people went to hell, this would certainly be irrespective of their professed faith.

As far as accepting Jesus is concerned, however, were more Christians to actually do so, there would be more good ones among them. Far too many follow just about anything in the bible except Jesus.
 

TiredOfLife

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Philosophically speaking, an afterlife makes as much sense to me as a beforelife.
Just humans trying to deal with their fear of death and their massive egos that tell them because they existed they must somehow be important. From nothing to nothing but you won't make many friends telling people that.
 

Paschendale

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It is very strange to think that good and bad would depend on whether or not one pledges allegiance to one specific authority, as opposed to another, or none. The whole idea is very medieval.
 

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Does anyone not 12 or younger actually believe that the good, or more specifically, those who accept Jesus Christ as their savior, go to heaven while everyone else goes to hell? Seriously?
Hey - Moses and Elijah weren't Christians, and they were on the Mount of Transfiguration talking with Jesus.

On the other hand, unless you can falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ, I wouldn't sleep too soundly. John 3:36 (Jesus speaking) doesn't bode well for godless heathens either.
 

TiredOfLife

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Hey - Moses and Elijah weren't Christians, and they were on the Mount of Transfiguration talking with Jesus.

On the other hand, unless you can falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ, I wouldn't sleep too soundly. John 3:36 (Jesus speaking) doesn't bode well for godless heathens either.
Another believer in the One True Faith. Of course he never checked out any other faith since he was raised a Christian. How very convenient that it's the only True One.
 

Captain Adverse

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I've always had a problem with the idea of a "loving God" condemning an eternal spirit (one's soul) to eternal damnation for the bad acts one commits for the brief span one is alive.

That's an exceedingly harsh punishment for a relatively small period of one's spiritual existence.

I mean if a soul is eternal, then one's time in earthly form is infinitely shorter than a mayfly when compared to eternity. Why would God do such a thing??

I don't think he would...I'd rather believe we do go through a recycling process...bad souls coming back in new births to learn to be better rather than an actual "hell" of fire and brimstone along with spiritual tormentors.
 
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calamity

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Hey - Moses and Elijah weren't Christians, and they were on the Mount of Transfiguration talking with Jesus.

On the other hand, unless you can falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ, I wouldn't sleep too soundly. John 3:36 (Jesus speaking) doesn't bode well for godless heathens either.
Uh, it's not for me to "falsify" the Resurrection. It's for those making such extraordinary claims to prove it. And, to be as honest as possible, without being rude, the idea of the Resurrection is on par with Santa being pulled on his sleigh by flying reindeer.
 

calamity

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I've always had a problem with the idea of a "loving God" condemning an eternal spirit (one's soul) to eternal damnation for the bad acts one commits for the brief span one is alive.

That's an exceedingly harsh punishment for a relatively small period of one's spiritual existence.

I mean if a soul is eternal, then one's time in earthly form is infinitely shorter than a mayfly when compared to eternity. Why would God do such a thing??
Yes. The one shot at the apple thing, with not possibility of parole if we miss, seems a bit over the top. This is especially so since the only way GOd is using to convince someone is through the voices of other humans. Humans, who most of us know, would lie in a heartbeat to achieve their aims.
 

sawyerloggingon

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There surly are fundamentalist that take the bible literally and believe in Heaven and Hell as actual places you go when you die but I think most Christians believe it is far more complex than that, at least I do.
 

shlunka

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Heaven is a manifestation of egotism. Hell is a manifestation of sadism.
 

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Does anyone not 12 or younger actually believe that the good, or more specifically, those who accept Jesus Christ as their savior, go to heaven while everyone else goes to hell? Seriously?
What does it matter to you what other people believe? Does someone elses belief in the afterlife or Jesus harm you in some way?
 

Gardener

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Hey - Moses and Elijah weren't Christians, and they were on the Mount of Transfiguration talking with Jesus.

On the other hand, unless you can falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ, I wouldn't sleep too soundly. John 3:36 (Jesus speaking) doesn't bode well for godless heathens either.
and coming from "logic" man, no less.

Perhaps, some day, logic might be so kind as to introduce itself to you. It appears you have never met.
 

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Heaven is a manifestation of egotism. Hell is a manifestation of sadism.
OK, Purgatory it is. A neutral territory, I guess, like Switzerland. :)
 

Logicman

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Another believer in the One True Faith. Of course he never checked out any other faith since he was raised a Christian. How very convenient that it's the only True One.
People making claims like that that they know nothing about probably haven't done their own in-depth research on Biblical Christianity.
 

Logicman

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and coming from "logic" man, no less.

Perhaps, some day, logic might be so kind as to introduce itself to you. It appears you have never met.
LOL! You're able to falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ are you? Fire away. You'll be the first.
 

TiredOfLife

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People making claims like that that they know nothing about probably haven't done their own in-depth research on Biblical Christianity.
I studied Christianity, most agnostics have, and that's why I rejected it. A faith for fools, slaves, and children.
 

Logicman

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Uh, it's not for me to "falsify" the Resurrection. It's for those making such extraordinary claims to prove it. And, to be as honest as possible, without being rude, the idea of the Resurrection is on par with Santa being pulled on his sleigh by flying reindeer.
If the resurrection is so absurd, why can't you falsify it? Should be a piece of cake for someone with such great insight. Where's the beef?
 

Logicman

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I studied Christianity, most agnostics have, and that's why I rejected it. A faith for fools, slaves, and children.
I've spent 40 years studying it, and it's solid as a rock. And this is along with studying other religions which I didn't find credible.

And as the Bible says, "The fool says in his heart 'There is no God.'"
 

Paschendale

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Hey - Moses and Elijah weren't Christians, and they were on the Mount of Transfiguration talking with Jesus.

On the other hand, unless you can falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ, I wouldn't sleep too soundly. John 3:36 (Jesus speaking) doesn't bode well for godless heathens either.
Can you falsify the divine authority of Odin? If not, you'd better die in battle fighting for his glory. How about the flight of Muhammad? No? I guess conversion to Islam is in order. How about we worry about stuff that we can prove is probably true, rather than things we can't prove are false?

What does it matter to you what other people believe? Does someone elses belief in the afterlife or Jesus harm you in some way?
Sometimes yes, it does. Because people do horrible things because of those beliefs. They start wars, beat women into submission, rape children, destroy knowledge, torture people, enslave people, mutilate people, brutally kill people... all because of their belief that their afterlife rides on it.

I've spent 40 years studying it, and it's solid as a rock. And this is along with studying other religions which I didn't find credible.

And as the Bible says, "The fool says in his heart 'There is no God.'"
That would be much more compelling if it said that in something not written to promote that god. If the Icelandic Sagas said that, or the legends of the Seneca, or the texts of Confucius, then it would make for a decent argument. But quoting the bible to prove the bible is just silly.
 
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TiredOfLife

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LOL! You're able to falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ are you? Fire away. You'll be the first.
If you had logic you would realize that he didn't say that. You don't have to disprove that there is a fantastic tea shop with great scones on the moon, just because I say there is. Logic requires that I prove it not the other way around.

You say that you believe something fantastic happened 2,000 years ago but you have no proof and you ask others to prove that it didn't instead. That's not logic, that's illogical and your belief isn't logic either, it's faith which you are welcome to have as long as you call it what it is, not what it isn't.
 

TiredOfLife

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I've spent 40 years studying it, and it's solid as a rock. And this is along with studying other religions which I didn't find credible.

And as the Bible says, "The fool says in his heart 'There is no God.'"
Agnostics don't say there is no God. We say Christianity is bunk. You have faith, but that's what it is, faith.
 

lizzie

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Philosophically speaking, an afterlife makes as much sense to me as a beforelife.
There may very well be a "beforelife" as well as an afterlife, at a level of consciousness outside the human brain itself. I recently finished a pretty interesting book on the subject, which was written by a neurosurgeon who had a very severe case of bacterial meningitis, from which he was expected to die, but instead lived to tell of his experiences while his brain was essentially dead. Admittedly, I am a skeptic in some ways still, but his story was rather compelling from a medical standpoint. I know that our human tendency is to discount anything which cannot be scientifically proven, but there are plenty of reasons to believe that science is not the ultimate arbiter of reality.
 
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